An argument for no victory conditions

[LostAlone]

I am disagreeing with them doing what you say they do.

Also way does every race have to try and win? If there are 4 or 5 that are a real challenge early on and 1 or 2 that are a challenge late in the game why is it silly to have a few that are pushing towards a goal that makes no sense to me. A galaxy of Aliens that think the same is just stupid.

I think we are now just going round is circles where there is a misunderstanding in my point and I do not seem to be able to get it across to you. Therefore I will exit the stage.

I understand what you are saying. However, I also believe you are wrong. If you can't see how a structured victory can be fulfilling to the player then I don't know how else to explain it. Other goals can be fun too, especially ones you make for yourself, but there's a reason why almost every other game ever made has a 'win' in it.

You could have the AI doing it's own thing but if it's not even rationally following it's own interests then it's going to be easy to beat the AI. It gives the player a massive advantage if the AI just won't make sensible moves, if it won't even try to make use of war or diplomacy or politics to stand up to you. How interesting would it be if your fighting game AI didn't block? Not much. Like I said; this kind of behavior makes for great fiction but bad games.

 

[zukodark]

I understand what you are saying. However, I also believe you are wrong. If you can't see how a structured victory can be fulfilling to the player then I don't know how else to explain it. Other goals can be fun too, especially ones you make for yourself, but there's a reason why almost every other game ever made has a 'win' in it.

You could have the AI doing it's own thing but if it's not even rationally following it's own interests then it's going to be easy to beat the AI. It gives the player a massive advantage if the AI just won't make sensible moves, if it won't even try to make use of war or diplomacy or politics to stand up to you. How interesting would it be if your fighting game AI didn't block? Not much. Like I said; this kind of behavior makes for great fiction but bad games.

"Bad games," after complaining so much about the pro-endless mode people claiming their opinion as right? It would be more right to say, "I don't like such games," or a lot of people "don't like such games." Even some of the pro-victory condition people agree that AI shouldn't do unrealistic moves for the sake of victory conditions. The AI should, according to me, not be working towards stopping the player, as that is like playing a board game. Of course, the AI shouldn't nonsensical moves and completely ignore the player. There is a difference from trying to stop a threatening warmongering nation from conquering you, and ruining all working connections in the galaxy just to stop the player from winning. "Hey, I am allied to this superpower, which has godly power, and controls most of the trade in the world, and thus it would make a lot sense to depend on their help... Let's declare war and attack him!"

 

[Pshek]

In Paradox game can not be victory conditions, it is feature of all games, that need to save.

Do what are you want and don't look at the neighbour who conquer galaxy)

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

The thing is though; if you aren't arguing for zero victory conditions at all; that they should be optional in some sense, what are we even arguing about? Because that's literally exactly the thing I've said the game should have. Optional victory conditions.

So if you want that too, why is everything I say treated with such disdain? Why is there this constant 'anti-everything I say' sentiment here if we think the same thing? What do you want that differs from what I want? What have I been saying that is actually being argued at? Is it seriously because I think victory conditions should be on by default? Is that literally it? And we agree on everything else?

Can you please state clearly how your position differs?

The issue has mainly been about the AI and not any specific "Victory Condition" or a scoring mechanics.

Now... this is what I truly believe will be in the game...

There will be NO traditional 4x victory conditions, it's not typical for a Paradox game.I highly doubt this game will be any different.

When you start a game the "story line", "event" or "achievement" which will "END" the game will be on by default but you can deselect it and get a true sandbox game if you like. The story will likely not be a linear type of endeavor but some thing more like some sort of achievement you can reach at which point the game will end.

Victory conditions in a game like this is not important but it will have an ending, Paradox have already said that there will be ONE way to "win" the game as a player. I guess the only way you can truly loose will be if you are fully conquered.

I would be fully OK with Victory Conditions in the game and whether they are on by default or not is not something I would really care about one way or another. I suppose if they are there they would be on by default and you just deselect them when you start your first game and then they are off by default. I just don't think the game will have any such traditional VC so I'm good.