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An idea for islam : A strange one at that

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unmerged(31994)

unmerged(31994)

Zardishar
Jul 15, 2004
1.085
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The printing press :p

I know some of you might think this is silly, but I have been thinking and doing some readings on the possibilities opened by the printing press unto Islam.
Now, what if the printing press was imported to the khaliphate from China?how would that affect Islam?it would greatly.The spread of knowledge would quicken scientific tempo throughout islam, and centralize governments.This is an alternative history, so Im merely suggestion this.The Reniassance begins in Samarkand and Baghdad, the printing press spreads to Egypt "if still free from the Caliphate" to grenada, and from there to Europe.This would drastically raise the stats of islam.Perhaps even triggering a "Century of the Crescent" as more and more books are printed.Inventions, and machines would be created in the Middle east, persia, North Africa, and Al-Andalus than Europe, the scientific revolution begins in Islam.That would Open up a sea of possibilities.
Some might argue this isnt a great change, but I have thought of it in lenght, what if, and I repeat IF Islam has the ability to spread a copernicopia of books and literary works, and literize its society, are you aware how advanced they would be?I like the idea, and it has potential.
Discuss :p *anyone who disagrees will be shot :D....jk*
 
The Islamic world (the Ottoman Empire in particular) could have had the printing press...in fact, one was established around the early 1500's, I believe. However, the rulers did not allow use of it for fear of subversive ideas. There were also perceived problems with allowing the Qu'ran to be printed back then. I'm sure there were other factors as well.

My point: you could introduce the printing press to the Islamic world, but without an open enough society to use it, it won't change anything. :)
 
Actually it was discussed by the Grand Ulama council around the 1670s or so in the Ottoman Empire.They outlawed it , and for many generations it was unused until the Tulip Era.However, the muslim world in the game, is, under my immpression under the same situation of harun Ar-Rashid, an innovative society.Islamic society was always "open" but the defeats in Al-Andalus and other areas caused a core backslash.However in the game, we find Islam balanced against the west, giving muslims the chance to grow, what Im proposing is the exchange of Western advancement with one of Oriental advancement.Make China, Japan and Islam the leading powers while christendom trys to follow.
 
Only real catch is that the printing press wasn't nearly as useful where it was invented and developed in China and Korea. Both used Hanja (Hanzi: Chinese characters) to a significant degree (despite the introduction of Hangul, an alphabet-based language, in mid-15th century Korea), and the sheer number meant that you needed far more blocks (Chinese used clay initially, which was too fragile, but Koreans were the first to found a metal foundry for the presses in the early 15th century) compared to the western alphabets, which could substitute based on letter rather than word. Now, if Korea made the full move to Hangul a few centuries early (Even today, though, I still see Hanja in books) and China created their own alphabetic language (Less likely, since royal drive was the main impetus for Hangul in Korea, and even there, Confucian nobility tried to have it banned, succeeding until Korean nationalism emerged in the 19th century as a backlash to Japanese pressure), the printing press expenses would have been lessened significantly and the presses may have been used for more in the two countries than they were historically (basically short runs of uncertain investment return).

On the other hand, even despite a lesser suitability on the part of the written languages, Song Dynasty China did see an increase in scholarly activity after the initial development of their first presses. As well, all three regions (Europe, Muslim world, Far East) saw a backlash on the part of various authorities worried by the change. If King Sejong is far more insistent that Hangul be taught to the peasantry (Historically, it was used frequently by the women and uneducated) and pressures the nobility into it, and the future rulers do not bow to the demands of the nobility in less than half a century, I could see Hangul replacing Hanja more fully, especially if a king wanted to make it a victory over the nobles symbolizing their weakened state.

And, actually, the first OTL Muslim printing press was in 1480 Andalusia, so with the success of Granada/Cordoba in ATL, you'd see it remain there rather than be forced to move with the Jewish owners to Constantinople. Even if the press doesn't move west on the Silk Road (Baghdad would be a good place for a first Muslim press in this if it's gone with: it had a paper industry as early as the end of the 8th century), you will still see an Islamic faith uninjured by the backlash you mentioned, Calipah, and with a press in operation for a bit longer than in OTL, to boot.
 
I am merely suggestion a utilization of the printing press in the muslim world to the extreme and not just its adrehence.In Aberation, as an alternative universe, perhaps the muslims should overpower christians in terms of technology.Also there are 22 letters, simplier than the chinese :p
 
Sorry, I only meant China and Korea in the lessened usefulness of the printing press initially. I'm aware Arabic is an alphabetic language rather than ideographic, so I wasn't including it in the above, but I know less about the Muslim world as a whole, so I wouldn't be qualified to speak of it as much. :)
 
Well, I think it would be most unfortunate for gamebalance. Allready, Granada and the Caliphate are pretty powerfull, so the christian world needs to be remodelled into nation-states aswell, if you want them to stand any chance.

(ok, the idea is nice for the history forums, but here, game aspects need to be discussed too ;) )
 
I for one am opposed to the idea, for a few reasons:

1) Granada and the Caliphate are very strong already, they don't really NEED a boost.
2) I'd end up having to code the events for this into the Caliphate file :p :D (actually I don't mind I'm just inflating my complaint muahahaha).
3) Aberration or no, game balance must be considered. While making the Muslim world the center of learning and advance as it was a few centuries before might be interesting, it would require remodelling the entire mod in many ways, like making the Middle East and parts of Asia higher tech, and dropping much of Europe to Orthodox. Not a fun prospect. Additionally it would make an already powerful group of states nigh unstoppable.

On the other hand, if we do implement it, I have a few ideas.

Each major muslim state would have to make a decision, support or refuse to support the printing press. This event would be a major trigger, resulting in more events for the creation of libraries, improvent in learning, etc. The way to balance this is to either not move tech group up or to only move it up late game, and to make the improvements cost a LOT of money. The rewards in the long run would likely be worth the cost, but finding the kind of cash I'm thinking of for each event would be extremely difficult. It might actually be worth it in the case of the Caliphate to allow a late game move to orthodox tech. As it stands, the Caliphate is an early game monster but it lags very far behind in tech by the mid to late game (I played a Byz game where I had 2 CRTs on them by the late 1500's, though I did play exceptionally that game, I had manus in almost all of my provs by that time as well...). It might make more sense to tie this in to my naval Caliphate idea (haven't even started coding yet, so it remains to be seen as to viability, and before anyone says I'm powering up the Caliphate, actually read the Caliphate events thread first so you know what I'm talking about). That way, they would have improved contact with the East. We could also add in events for Korea, as it stands several people would like to see a strong Korean state, but 2 provs isn't nearly enough. A good way to power it up might be sickeningly superior tech relative to its neighbors, through the power of the printing press....we could give it tech boosts and eventually at least on tech group increase throughout the game (we would have to find some way to keep it a land nation though, it would be too strong in trade if we didn't...perhaps concessions to the aristocracy to make them accept the printing press, and some later events to click towards land....that should keep their TE down some).

I'm sure I've forgotten something but I think I've written enough, I'm off to go on vacation, see you all later! :)
 
the event idea is fabulous, Implant it immediatly! :mad:
 
I think there's two good reasons not to implant events/mods to address this...

1) It's already, in some ways, covered by the innovativeness slider
2) We would then need events to simulate presses everywhere else as well; perhaps starting them all in lower tech groups and moving them up as they get them. The work involved in doing this for every country is something akin to the hurricane events I proposed and was shut down on because it would have required too much code.
 
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