Annexation BBs Make Game Unrealistic

[SonofWinter]

1. You loose 1/2 of a BB per year.
2. Caesars conquests alone will get you 79 BB, counting the declarations of war. Which would take 158 years to burn off. Just the 11 minors, 4 DOWs and 2 provinces of Masillia (count massilia as 2 DOWs). 12x6BB per annexation +1 for Masillia's extra province +6x1BB per DOW.
3. This is not counting 3 wars against Carthage (as if that was enough to get it done) but let us assume 3x1BB per dow+6BB for annexation+19BB per province of Carthage taken, this is all assuming that neither Massillia no Carthage will colonize, because they would obviously never colonize in a real game, for a nice total of 28BB or 56 more years. If you haven't been counting we are at 214 years of BB elmination.
4. This is not counting the Phyrric war and the annexation that followed, which is 2BB for the 2 provinces you will take (2BB), or you will have to take them later on from Carthage, so lets assume you take both and then annex Magna Grecia for another 6BB, except we need to add 1BB for the war declaration. That's another 18 years of BB, we are now at 232 years. This does not account for Egypt, Pontus, Greece or the Selucid wars. For that you get another 8 years, think you can do it?

So, does anyone else have an opinion as to why 6BB per annexation is a reasonable number? Anyone?

 

[delra]

I used assassinations to get CB on Gauls and led all the wars the way that allowed Massilia to annex pretty much everybody. I attacked Massilia afterwards and took it all for much less badboy. Learn to play around the rules or just leave Gauls where they are, they aren't worth the effort anyway. Go for Egypt instead.

 

[SonofWinter]

I used assassinations to get CB on Gauls and led all the wars the way that allowed Massilia to annex pretty much everybody. I attacked Massilia afterwards and took it all for much less badboy. Learn to play around the rules or just leave Gauls where they are, they aren't worth the effort anyway. Go for Egypt instead.

I know how to get around the rules, the issue is, that if I do the smart thing, I should get a chance to get those fewer BBs.

But I'm just presenting the rules, following the history of Rome, because someone told me in a previous post that 6BB was done for game balance issues. If by game balance they mean to say that you can't get the historical results that were obviously achieved then yes, I agree we get game balance results that are not correct with history.

Also, each assassination cost you .5BB if you used 3 assasinations for each of your CBs you started the war with 1.5BB, from assassinations alone. Smart move on your part, I'm sure.

 

[SonofWinter]

1 edit, since I only got 1CB on another territory all game long, I never paid attention, but apparently a DOW without a CB is 2BB and desecrating a temple is 1BB. I'm not sure how many BBs you get for an assassination. We should revise all of my number up there, but that would mean you would require about 400 years to achieve what Rome achieved in 240 years.

So, could someone tell me who thinks 6BB per annexation is a good idea?

 

[berhaven]

Thanks for the maths.
I was thinking about it in the last days, and I definitely agree that the issue has to be handled somehow.
Maybe a "mission to civilize" triggered modifier wich boosts BB reduction, and/or a "client state force release" as peace resolution could help.
I would appreciate to start a discussion about the issue in the mod sub-forum

 

[flimo]

i have upped my BB reduction slightly for the same reasons
having to turtle for 60 years while BB wears off isnt all that fun
so mine is set at ,88 atm ill see how that pans out, atleast it gives me the option to do one nefarious mission a year wihout adding to much BB

 

[SonofWinter]

Thanks for the maths.
I was thinking about it in the last days, and I definitely agree that the issue has to be handled somehow.
Maybe a "mission to civilize" triggered modifier wich boosts BB reduction, and/or a "client state force release" as peace resolution could help.
I would appreciate to start a discussion about the issue in the mod sub-forum

Please take my numbers and tweak them for for the no CB DOWs, no need to credit me. I will come in a add my two bits for the discussion. I'm just ticked right now and won't be adding any more bug issues, since the issues are so many, I doubt any Beta Tester, was working on any of them, other than, how to make Greece and Greek conquests look better and expand more Greek power. From Greek minors colonizing the hell out of the Black Sea to Masillia building a colonial empire, while Rome watches in humility. This game is more and more a macabre vision of Grecophiles than any other Byzantine inclusions in the EU series.

I'm quite frankly disgusted with myself, that I paid money, when I knew this would happen. I've seen the Greece love fest in previous titles and I had my suspicions, but I'm quite horrified by all the things I've seen in this game up to now. Not to mention that Greek religion is almost protected like some sacred virgin, from Roman influence or conversion and the relgious power not being fixed for Rome or Carthage, but apparently working beautifully for the Greek religion, making all of their omens work 100% of the time.

I am saddened and disappointed that a minority can make such a huge difference in how a game is designed for Rome fans.

 

[King]

I have logged this and we are going to look into it.

 

[berhaven]

So, basically I think we can handle BB (and to some extent WE) in this way:
Create an event triggered by a victorious war conclusion (do we have a variable for this?), with with a text like:
"Our Struggle is over, we added new territories to our mighty Empire, and we have to decide how we want to proceed"
a: our mission is conquer ==> set the "mission to conquer" variable as on
b: we have to reestablish our reputation ===> set the "I'm not such a bad boy" variable on
c: we are doing right: get the most from the new provinces

With an interval stated by modifiers like the civ level of capitol and some attributes of leader (maybe ambitious and counqueror) and a random effect, we can have events firing giving:
a: get a reduction on WE
b: get a reduction on BB
c: get a cash bonus

 

[whosthebestcop]

If you weren't SPAMMED with assassins would you even care if you went over your BadBoy limit?

 

[sirbruce]

If you weren't SPAMMED with assassins would you even care if you went over your BadBoy limit?

Does the 1.2 limit on failed assassins apply to the AI as well? If so going over your badboy may not be so bad anymore.

Anyway, I agree that BB is a big issue. Everything needs adjusting... up the yearly reduction to -1, up the max a bit, and reduce the BB for taking other capital provinces. The big problem is for me to conquer a one-province barbarian minor in Gaul costs me at least 6BB, whereas I can go to war with Carthage instead and pick up 6 colonized provinces in Spain for the same price. Plus the fact that in the Gaul example, I'm likely to have 4 or 5 other barbarian states attacking me at the same time, but annexing all of those in one war would put me over the Badboy limit.

Bruce

 

[podcat]

yes. it applies to the AI as well. We also added something to help with this problem: Your rulers charisma will effect how quickly you loose badboy and what your badboy limit is, so wait with these kinds of conquests until you have a charismatic ruler on the throne.

 

[sirbruce]

yes. it applies to the AI as well. We also added something to help with this problem: Your rulers charisma will effect how quickly you loose badboy and what your badboy limit is, so wait with these kinds of conquests until you have a charismatic ruler on the throne.

Well that's good to hear but I still think 6BB for a non-core capital province is excessive. I assume it's 4 if you have a core on it? Even with greater boundary disputes, it still makes taking provinces from other nations far more profitable. Barbarian states need to be treated more like the pagan states in EU, maybe?

 

[cwg9]

This issue is definitely much improved in 1.2, thanks paradox! BB goes down faster, and the intrigue system is working better due to the forced wait if the AI fails an attempt.

For people still having issues, another recommendation I have is to not annex much early in the game, unless the province is needed for strategic reasons. Get them down to one province, make them pay tribute to you until ready, this should keep your BB below the limit, and then later in the game when you are confident you are strong enough to ignore BB all together, cancel all those tribute deals and go on an annexing spree.