Announcing Clio : A new map for Victoria : Revolutions

[OriginalRafiki]

But I do have some corrections regarding Norway.

Just minor adjustments in the west, but the standalone province of Fredrikstad is just plain silly if you ask me. Is Rafiki from there perhaps...

I have to agree with the Western border changes; I had a motivation for setting the borders where I did, apart from the county borders, but I can't remember what those motivations were anymore, which leads me to believe that they cannot have been particularly timeless or even particularly good.

As for Fredriksstad, it represents the county of Østfold, which might not be that large geographically, but had a population comparable to places like Buskerud ("Drammen"), Telemark ("Skien") and Møre and Romsdal ("Alesund") and was a center (not the center, mind you) for resources as well as industrial development in the 19th century and onwards.

Now, looking at the map with somewhat refreshed eyes, what I would like to suggest is to let "Christiania" represent only the areas closest to the city of Christiania, i.e. the westernmost third of the current province, while dividing the eastern parts between "Hamar" and "Fredriksstad". Doing it like that would allow a Norwegian player to plan for defending Christiania as was done historically by having fortresses on the Eastern border that a hostile Swede would have to defeat before being able to attack Christiania itself by land.

And for the record, I'm from Christiania

 

[OHgamer]

I have to agree with the Western border changes; I had a motivation for setting the borders where I did, apart from the county borders, but I can't remember what those motivations were anymore, which leads me to believe that they cannot have been particularly timeless or even particularly good.

As for Fredriksstad, it represents the county of Østfold, which might not be that large geographically, but had a population comparable to places like Buskerud ("Drammen"), Telemark ("Skien") and Møre and Romsdal ("Alesund") and was a center (not the center, mind you) for resources as well as industrial development in the 19th century and onwards.

Now, looking at the map with somewhat refreshed eyes, what I would like to suggest is to let "Christiania" represent only the areas closest to the city of Christiania, i.e. the westernmost third of the current province, while dividing the eastern parts between "Hamar" and "Fredriksstad". Doing it like that would allow a Norwegian player to plan for defending Christiania as was done historically by having fortresses on the Eastern border that a hostile Swede would have to defeat before being able to attack Christiania itself by land.

And for the record, I'm from Christiania

Rafiki, if you get a free moment, could you create a quick mockup of what you are describing for the Christiania area - I like the sound of it but not quite picturing it.

 

[OHgamer]

I know that it is your map and you will decide, but anyway I send the suggestion

Like the suggestions in Spain. the only issue i'll have at the moment is adding another province to France, since that brings up balance issues with other major European nations like Germany. But the Spanish changes should be doable.

 

[OHgamer]

British Guyana is again a messy thing. Too little populated (specially in the Amazonian hinterland), and too much disputed territories.

First, historical background:

Green stripes = Brazilian claims until 1904
Yellow stripes = Venezuelan territories 1830 - 1840(?)
Yellow dots = Venezuelan claims until 1899


So, I think British Guyana should at least recive one more province.

Rather than add a very low-pop 4th province to Guyana, I think the best solution is to merge the east bank (which all seem to agree was British) and have 2 provinces in the West - coastal and inland

so something like this

 

[Sen. Vergueiro]

B. Guyana - OK


Venezuela. Searching maps for Guyana I've found something, that also B. Guyana claimed quite expressives Venezuelan lands.

Hist. map:

Suggestion for Venezuela:

province net gain: 0

 

[OHgamer]

From what i've read the British claims were more of the nature of a countering ploy in an attempt to get the Venezuelans to back off, not so much a serious claim to the land.

Considering the low population of the area, I think i'd rather keep Venezuela's setup as is rather than make such a huge province in the orinoco to carve out a smaller piece for a claim that was not, in the end, one the British took as a vital demand.

 

[Tempelridderen]

I've taken a look at Africa, since it seems that hasn't been touched yet.
My idea for Ethiopia and Eritrea (Tigray):


Ogaden (Somalis):
Province 1, Harar.

Oromia:
Province 2, Dar e Dawa
Province 3, Kibre or Doma not sure..
Province 6, Addis Abeba

Afar:
Province 8, Asayita

Amhara
Province 7, Gonder

Southern minorities
Province 4, Awasa

Western minorities (Sudanese):
Province 5, Asosa

Tigray:
Province 9, Aksum
Province 10, Asmara
Province 11, Assab

This means that there will be added one province to northern Tigray.

This setup is based a lot on ethnicities, but I still think it's balanced enough when thinking about pop sizes and so on..

 

[Tempelridderen]

And here's my idea for Sudan:



I thought it was most important to split up the large and highly populated provinces in the north. And add provinces arond Khartoum, leaving it less exposed in a war.
Also, I feel these provinces better reflects the Geography of the area. But this is just my idea.
I've kept the province numbers to the original one, 13.

 

[unmerged(6063)]

Like the suggestions in Spain. the only issue i'll have at the moment is adding another province to France, since that brings up balance issues with other major European nations like Germany. But the Spanish changes should be doable.

Ok.
I proposed the creation of Perpignan by historical reasons for territorial claims of Catalonia and (possibly) Spain in France. Historically, the catalan nationalism, always has demanded the Roussillon, and in the Victoria Era, the catalan nationalism is very strong. The claims of Catalonia over Foix and Carcassonne are exaggerated and unreal. Correct claims would be only on the Perpignan province. Economically it is a rich producing wine province.

My idea was to use the free province of Tortosa to create the province of Perpignan and thus not to affect the total number of free province ID's

 

[OHgamer]

Ok.
I proposed the creation of Perpignan by historical reasons for territorial claims of Catalonia and (possibly) Spain in France. Historically, the catalan nationalism, always has demanded the Roussillon, and in the Victoria Era, the catalan nationalism is very strong. The claims of Catalonia over Foix and Carcassonne are exaggerated and unreal. Correct claims would be only on the Perpignan province. Economically it is a rich producing wine province.

My idea was to use the free province of Tortosa to create the province of Perpignan and thus not to affect the total number of free province ID's

Ah yes Totosa would be freed. Will consider the idea. Though there is also a request to split up the Nantes province so that one part will be in historic Brittany and the rest in IIRC Val De Loire so there is already a request for one extra province in France. So there are still balance issues to be dealt with.

 

[OHgamer]

And here's my idea for Sudan:



I thought it was most important to split up the large and highly populated provinces in the north. And add provinces arond Khartoum, leaving it less exposed in a war.
Also, I feel these provinces better reflects the Geography of the area. But this is just my idea.
I've kept the province numbers to the original one, 13.

Africa is going to be given quite a few more provinces compared to base Victoria, as it was under-provinced before. i'll post Sudan and Ethiopia in a bit.

 

[Tempelridderen]

Oh? Have you already planned Sudan and Ethiopia?

 

[unmerged(6063)]

Ah yes Totosa would be freed. Will consider the idea. Though there is also a request to split up the Nantes province so that one part will be in historic Brittany and the rest in IIRC Val De Loire so there is already a request for one extra province in France. So there are still balance issues to be dealt with.

In this case you will be able to use that province of Tortosa to create Andorra

 

[OHgamer]

Ethiopia & Eritrea :



Sudan :

 

[OHgamer]

Oh? Have you already planned Sudan and Ethiopia?

I've actaully got all of Africa planned out by country yes. Comments and suggestions appreciated of course but the initial planning is already set up, and if there are other specific nations you'd like to see, just ask for them.

 

[Tempelridderen]

I've actaully got all of Africa planned out by country yes. Comments and suggestions appreciated of course but the initial planning is already set up, and if there are other specific nations you'd like to see, just ask for them.

As you probably see, it's quite similair to my idea, only with more provinces, which is even better! Africa is my special interest

P.S. Can I see the plan for eastern Congo? (Area close to modern day Burundi and Rwanda).

 

[OHgamer]

As you probably see, it's quite similair to my idea, only with more provinces, which is even better! Africa is my special interest

P.S. Can I see the plan for eastern Congo? (Area close to modern day Burundi and Rwanda).

will post

Rwanda and Burundi will also be separate single provinces, so that the map can be used for modern day scenarios.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Rafiki, if you get a free moment, could you create a quick mockup of what you are describing for the Christiania area - I like the sound of it but not quite picturing it.

Something along the lines of:

This renders Christiania as a fairly small province, though, which might not be that good a thing?

 

[OHgamer]

Dem Rep Congo :

 

[OHgamer]

Something along the lines of:

This renders Christiania as a fairly small province, though, which might not be that good a thing?

hmm - we could always rename it Oslo to make the name fit

perhaps expand out vs Hamar a bit ???

You got any sub-county level maps you could compare things with?