It's nice to see at least one cardinal acknowledging the importance of popular resistance to authoritarian crackdown, but the nature of these things was always going to lead to an instinctive liberal like Trinca being overcome by events.
Some form of socialism can absolutely be sold as Christian virtue, given how Jesus especially was very much into giving aid freely and without recompence, that every man is your neighbour, and that a rich man is going to find it imposing difficult to get into heaven due to how much power he has on earth (and how likely it is that he isn't using it to help people to the fullest extent).I'm not going to dispute that Nicholas is a brutal authoritarian since his actions in the Peloponnese are well-documented, but I don't fully trust Trinca either. While the reforms seem reasonable, Trinca's nonchalant take on Marxism is a bit strange. I doubt communists would make a distinction between Nicholas' school of thought and Trinca's Christian socialists.
I don't disagree with that, but I'm not sure the Marxists would see things that way. Communists don't exactly like socialists throughout history, and Trinca is part of the papal power structure. I doubt they'd see him as one of the good ones, rather just the best of a rotten system, who even then isn't good enough. I think Nicholas needs opposition, but Trinca must be careful he doesn't weaken right authoritarians only to replace them with left authoritarians.Some form of socialism can absolutely be sold as Christian virtue
I'm sure if Trinca is very good and cooperates nicely with the Communists they will show him the courtesy of shooting him last.I don't disagree with that, but I'm not sure the Marxists would see things that way. Communists don't exactly like socialists throughout history, and Trinca is part of the papal power structure. I doubt they'd see him as one of the good ones, rather just the best of a rotten system, who even then isn't good enough. I think Nicholas needs opposition, but Trinca must be careful he doesn't weaken right authoritarians only to replace them with left authoritarians.
The Papacy absolutely could win the fight, if they keep the army and Inquisition on side then they can ride out any amount of protest. I'm not saying they will, Nicholas seems quite ham fisted and could easily cock it up, but such regimes are often very resilient in the absence of large outside shocks.The problem is that this isn't a fight the papacy can or will win. This pope is burning through all the goodwill built up domestically and internationally to rule his nation like a medieval absolute monarch...but to no avail. The people by this time are perfectly capable of revolution, and I suspect that this may be the nation that first falls to a facist dictatorship or communism.
It's nice to see at least one cardinal acknowledging the importance of popular resistance to authoritarian crackdown, but the nature of these things was always going to lead to an instinctive liberal like Trinca being overcome by events.
The problem is that this isn't a fight the papacy can or will win. This pope is burning through all the goodwill built up domestically and internationally to rule his nation like a medieval absolute monarch...but to no avail. The people by this time are perfectly capable of revolution, and I suspect that this may be the nation that first falls to a facist dictatorship or communism.
Pope Nicholas is certainly turning Italy into his own authoritarian "paradise" but, as Trinca shows, internal support for this shift is not as high as the pope would think. And, with the pope having removed much of the possibility for gradual change, a storm is coming.Pope Nicholas is a relic of a dying time; a time when noble-blooded rulers ruled from their keeps and the people kept their heads down and were lead along placidly (if such a time truly existed under that definition). Now is a time where the people can no longer be safely ignored, they are to aware of the fact that their lives are awful and that it could be better. Nicholas can delay all he wants, but if people believe their lives will never get better through peaceful means, they will take action. Change can either come slowly and quietly, or in a storm of rage and blood.
I'm not going to dispute that Nicholas is a brutal authoritarian since his actions in the Peloponnese are well-documented, but I don't fully trust Trinca either. While the reforms seem reasonable, Trinca's nonchalant take on Marxism is a bit strange. I doubt communists would make a distinction between Nicholas' school of thought and Trinca's Christian socialists.
Some form of socialism can absolutely be sold as Christian virtue, given how Jesus especially was very much into giving aid freely and without recompence, that every man is your neighbour, and that a rich man is going to find it imposing difficult to get into heaven due to how much power he has on earth (and how likely it is that he isn't using it to help people to the fullest extent).
You're both right in a way. Trinca was accepted at first by the more moderate socialists as a way into the halls of power but, now that that avenue has been blocked off, the communist side is having an easy time depicting Trinca as, at best, an insufficient moderate and, at worst, as a mole for the enemy. And just like that Trinca has been cut off from the resistance.I don't disagree with that, but I'm not sure the Marxists would see things that way. Communists don't exactly like socialists throughout history, and Trinca is part of the papal power structure. I doubt they'd see him as one of the good ones, rather just the best of a rotten system, who even then isn't good enough. I think Nicholas needs opposition, but Trinca must be careful he doesn't weaken right authoritarians only to replace them with left authoritarians.
Nicholas is not defenseless by any means. His experience in Greece gives him a good handle on how to repress dissent and keep things ticking. The question is whether he'll be successful on a national scale.I'm sure if Trinca is very good and cooperates nicely with the Communists they will show him the courtesy of shooting him last.
As always I find the Church's hypocrisy amusing, the Papacy has waged many bloody and violent wars and often dragged allies in to help them win, all in the cause of uniting Italy. But when France tries to reclaim it's lost territories, suddenly it's a terrible crime. I hardly think Trinca and his colleagues would have though arbitration an acceptable way to decide Italy's future, nor accepted the result had it decided against unification.
The Papacy absolutely could win the fight, if they keep the army and Inquisition on side then they can ride out any amount of protest. I'm not saying they will, Nicholas seems quite ham fisted and could easily cock it up, but such regimes are often very resilient in the absence of large outside shocks.
There is probably a parallel with the Soviet Union here. It was said a Soviet leader had to balance the Party, the KGB and the Army and could only afford to annoy one at any one time, only Stalin ever had the absolute authority to do more and survive. It appears a Pope must balance the Curia, the Army and the Inquisition to stay in power. Nicholas is clearly losing some of his Cardinals, yet if he is doing nationwide suppression he must have the Inquisition on side and at least some of the Curia. The balance then lies with the Army, if they return home victorious and satisfied then all will be well, but if it a pyrrhic victory or costly defeat things may go badly.
Nicholas assured me that the fighting will be over in a few brief months
The much-feared chemical weapons did not significantly hamper our victory in 1905 and the Franco-Austrian forces have not increased significantly enough to alter our well-practiced strategy.
That must have been a devastating defeat for the Italian people. I suppose it's interesting how Vic 2 effectively simulates the devastation of WWI style fighting, but the player still joins these wars to preserve their prestige regardless of the consequences.The war is over. I have lost. Toulon is a bloody disaster. A quarter of a million dead on our side while the French walk away with hardly a scratch. Gas and machine guns did us in.
He turned out to be correct! He must possess amazing powers of prediction, to be right about this particular thing when so many before him were wrong.
Of course, I don't think he's happy that his prediction came true. It sure feels like things are about to blow up on the domestic front.
The domestic front is going to be particularly fraught and the pope will have to deal with it as best he can (whatever that means)Facism doesn't do well with military defeats. It may well be that this pope is remembered as the one who in a few years compeltly destroyed a millenia of institution.
A red tide is rising across Italy and this defeat is one more reason to oppose Nicholas. He needs to be very careful if he wants things to go his way.That must have been a devastating defeat for the Italian people. I suppose it's interesting how Vic 2 effectively simulates the devastation of WWI style fighting, but the player still joins these wars to preserve their prestige regardless of the consequences.
I can't say I'm surprised to see Puccetti scape-goated, and he probably deserves it. Problem is, the bad decisions go all the way to the top as far as I'm concerned. I'll also be curious how Italy handles this. I'd assume it further radicalizes the workers toward the socialists since they were anti-war in OTL. Maybe we will have a red pope soon.
You're correct about the soldiers' families, and with so many soldiers gone, there is ample space for anger to grow. The "full extent of the consequences" will be revealed soon enough and it will be A LOTSo not only are the Cardinals bad at being religious leaders they also struggle as military ones. The biggest surprise is that it took this long to go wrong.
From the Pope's perspective there is one upside to this defeat, there will be very few angry former soliders coming home as Puccetti got most of them killed. Though there are still plenty of relatives and families left, not to mention the workers and everyone else the Papacy has ignored, let down or betrayed. A backdrop that makes that final note about "full extent of the consequences" particularly ominous. Well ominous for the Papal Kingdom, potentially a source of hope for everyone else.![]()
Imagine that...Here it seems that the old Savoyard electoral spirit still lives on since we are most often met with accusations of tyranny.
Ah...not good.I have received a letter from certain members of the Albanian elite requesting Italian aid for a coup to oust the Ottoman government there.
Wait, they thought it was a good idea to abolish federalism without any other carrots than, "maybe we'll lower your taxes later"? Nicholas just keeps knocking out all of the pillars that were keeping Papal Italy together.The unification process has encountered a roadblock here in Piedmont where the former king Emanuele Filiberto refuses to leave the Palace of Venaria. To make matters worse, an unpleasant-looking mob has been harassing my men in the execution of their orders. The royal depositions in Naples and Palermo were a walk in the park compared to this; that was in large part thanks to our understanding with the local magnates who managed to explain the purpose of this operation in the appropriate terms. It was soon agreed that a unitary system would reduce everyone's taxes since an entire level of government would no longer be present and allow for greater job opportunities elsewhere in Italy without the bureaucracy that the old structure used to entail.
Ah, yes, let us show conciliation towards our friends, and force towards our enemies, and everything will work out!I believe that a mixed show of strength and conciliation are just what is needed to calm spirits.
Nicholas' Greater Italian dream seems particular dream-like given that it comes on the back of a catastrophic defeat in a Great War.I am still mulling over Nicholas' declaration of the Greater Italian dream and the consequences that it will have for our future.
... are we sure they are going to get better?Things are going to get worse before they get better.
A Catholic one? In dealing with this revolt Nicholas is perhaps channelling the spirit of Innocent III - Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.Nicholas wants to kill those he is entrusted with but what kind of father beats his children and claims that the violence is for their own good?
I can see Nicholas' point though, there are so many indelible stains on the Church at this point would anyone even notice another one?This cannot be allowed; he must be stopped or he will forever stain the Church with his sin.
What's that? The Catholic Church is running things?A Catholic one? In dealing with this revolt Nicholas is perhaps channelling the spirit of Innocent III - Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.
I can see Nicholas' point though, there are so many indelible stains on the Church at this point would anyone even notice another one?