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Another what if about WWII

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If there had been a real alliance Italy would not have lost so badly in Africa and later in Europe. it is also relatively certain that strategic Islands as Malta weren't taken when they were undefended because of lack of coordination and long term planning. Germany considered the war over and Italy wanted toget its share of the cake as long as it's still warm.
 
Originally posted by viper37


As much as Japan and Germany are concerned, I knew they wasn't any coordination (wich makes me wonder why they did ally at all?).
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I don't believe it ever could be considered a true alliance. The only thing they had in common was an expansionistic attitude and a belief in their own racial superiority. The latter would have ensured they couldn't cooperate even if geography didn't.
 
It was no problem to change the value of a race in the scheme. Hitler actually did that. There was some cooperation, especially Japanese bases for German ships, but it was the different interests and a spoiled diplomacy that prevented a real alliance.
 
Originally posted by von Wittenburg


I don't believe it ever could be considered a true alliance. The only thing they had in common was an expansionistic attitude and a belief in their own racial superiority. The latter would have ensured they couldn't cooperate even if geography didn't.
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Italians and French were considered inferior to the German race, but still the Nazis allied themselves with Italy and sort of military vassalized southern France (Vichy) and never missed a chance to use any collabos there was.
 
Originally posted by viper37
Italians and French were considered inferior to the German race, but still the Nazis allied themselves with Italy and sort of military vassalized southern France (Vichy) and never missed a chance to use any collabos there was.
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But not as inferior as the Slavs of the East, or especially the Jews, which is, in a way, the point.

The Japanese were so oppressively confident about their own racial superiority that they could, paradoxically, take Hitler's ravings in their stride-no doubt helped, of course, by the fact that the largest landmass on the planet separated them.

Any real concept of co-operation was lost in a mass of platitudes and generalities-dividing the world by a line ("east of this Japan will destroy the enemy, west of this......blah, blah, blah!)
 
Originally posted by Agelastus


But not as inferior as the Slavs of the East, or especially the Jews, which is, in a way, the point.
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Yes, If I remember correctly what I gathered from Mein Kampf and other books, it goes as this:

Aryans (Germans, Scandinavians, Anglo-Saxons, all distant "cousins")
"Mélangés" (Mixed? - Latins(French,Italians,Spanish,Portugese)
Inferior ("sous-hommes") - Slavs, Blacks, Tziganes (don't know the english word, sorry) and probably Asians (can't remember I've seen it tough)
And below the Human race, even lowlier than the animals: the Jews.

I had it all in a school work I did, but it's far away (it was done 10 years ago and I changed computers 3-4 times in that time... can't remember where those files are)

Anyway, my point was more that this whole racial theory was not as strict as we tought, the Nazi regime bended it on time to time whenever they needed it.

Even for some Jews, some Nazis were making exceptions (instead of killing them they were using them as slaves or collaborators in very rare cases, in exchange for their lives)
 
Originally posted by viper37
Tziganes (don't know the english word, sorry) and probably Asians (can't remember I've seen it tough)
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Gypsies.

Curiously enough, I don't remember Hitler's general opinion of Asians myself-one assumes bad, but he did ally with the Japanese, so.......oh, well.
 
Originally posted by viper37


Italians and French were considered inferior to the German race, but still the Nazis allied themselves with Italy and sort of military vassalized southern France (Vichy) and never missed a chance to use any collabos there was.
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That may have been true in the west, but in the east any hope for rebellious factions in the USSR to collaborate (which was a real possibility) was crushed as soon as the SS moved in. It was not until late in the war that the German policy changed towards these anti-USSR groups.
 
The single largest ethnic group in the Waffen SS were the slavs. It's ironic that while Hitler called them "unhuman", his elite army recruited 100,000 them. This, comming from the orginization that in the 30s required enlistees to trace their history back to 1700, w/no foreign blood... Kinda ironic.
 
Originally posted by Calvin
The single largest ethnic group in the Waffen SS were the slavs. It's ironic that while Hitler called them "unhuman", his elite army recruited 100,000 them. This, comming from the orginization that in the 30s required enlistees to trace their history back to 1700, w/no foreign blood... Kinda ironic.
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If you were blonde you were Aryan-major elements of the Nazi machine behaved this way. Just one of the many contradictions of that entire insane period.
 
Originally posted by Agelastus


If you were blonde you were Aryan-major elements of the Nazi machine behaved this way. Just one of the many contradictions of that entire insane period.
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The first thing we learn in school when we talk about the Nazis is what was the elite physically looking like: Tall guy, blond hair, blue eyes. Hitler? Small guy, brown hair, brown eyes. IMHO, just this is enough proof that this whole racial theory was totally false, and served only political interest. Kinda useful to declare half of the parliament to be "ennemy of the state".

Not counting that sending all women home and depriving jews of all rights was a sure way to cheat the statistics for unemployment.
 
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