Removing the little nubs conntecting Syria to Azerbaijan, and splitting this between Kirkuk and Nuyssaybin would be a huge improvement.
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chegitz guevara said:
This isn't right. Pir Budaq was executed just before Jahan Shah was killed. Jahan Shah was survived by other sons, but they weren't able to unite the Black Sheep. In fact, the Black Sheep didn't go wholely over to the White Sheep. Some did, but the Black Sheep fragmented. We should look at Garbon's use of the Iraq and Fars revolters for the White Sheep, because the Black split along similar lines, Iraq, Fars, etc.
As an aside, it was a decendent of the Black Sheep that founded the Shi'ite dynasty in Golkanda in India.
According to Ozturkler, "the Antalya branch of Hamidogullari principality was abolished and their lands were annexed to the lands of Ottomans (1423)." That would be Tekke / Teke.
http://www.ozturkler.com/data_english/0003/0003_01_24.htm
Aydin goes down in 1426. "As a result, any army that was sent by Ottoman Sultan Murad II annihilated the Aydinogullari Principality (1426)."
http://www.ozturkler.com/data_english/0003/0003_01_17.htm
Oh, and it seems Antalya should have goods as its export.
http://www.ozturkler.com/data_english/0003/0003_01_24.htm
Aydin goes down in 1426. "As a result, any army that was sent by Ottoman Sultan Murad II annihilated the Aydinogullari Principality (1426)."
http://www.ozturkler.com/data_english/0003/0003_01_17.htm
Oh, and it seems Antalya should have goods as its export.
chegitz guevara said:
Uh huh, what of this?
This is where I got the date for the Absorption of Aydin event.
I never posted anything about this, but I really dislike the idea of making the Kara Koyunlu shiia. Largely because the way religions are set up in EU2, this is really polarizing. No one should be kicking the shit of the Kara Koyunlu, which is what this sort of change will induce. Additionally, religion was not such of an important matter during the rule of the Kara Koyunlu and this will serve to artificially inflate the matter if we have a shiia nation ruling over a mostly sunni populace. Lastly, this will encourage the Kara Koyunlu to undertake province conversions, which just makes no sense.
Garbon said:
Yeah, but you have Teke surviving until 1429. I have a couple sources for Teke going down in 1423 (Ozturkler and the Cambridge histories), and Bartleby has it surviving until 1426.
As for Shia Karas, I've got them in my mod, and they do quite well, and don't start converting much until the 1500s.
Now post your Ak Koylunu events, dangit!
I like these, but perhaps we could change it so the Safavid invasions are treated as rebellions? You could write an event so that if rebels control the capital the Safavids take over and Shirvan becomes Persia (the event would have to include the trigger that Persia doesn't already exist).chegitz guevara said:
I just don't like the idea of an event being 'we won' or 'we lost' - it sounds so artificial. Maybe it's just me, though.
Looking forward to seeing the events in-game.
I would, but I'm led to believe that province control = reb doesn't work. Furthermore, with Shivan being a 1-prov minor, if the rebs take control, the government falls and the rebs go away.
Both good points - you can work around the REB tag (by checking if the capital isn't held by Shirvan, with or without extra triggers like atwar = no), but it's harder; I had forgotten that Shirvan was so small.chegitz guevara said:
I'm exhausted today; can anybody suggest an alternative?
I suppose it could be done so that if rebels occupy Dagestan, instead of controling it, then Shirvan becomes the Safavids. I wonder how that would work in practice, though.
You can indeed, trigger upon revolter control. Thats the way that Timbuktu was initially released from Mali.
As I said before, I think its a bad idea to have the Safavids start off in Daghestan. For one that makes their power base very very weak. Secondly, I'm not convinced that they kept the region, as it isn't till later than many sources list Shrivan as being annexed. It seems to me that they took Shrivan, used it as a stop off point and then went on to take down the AKK, leaving Shrivan behind to re-coup. Thus the way I've been starting the Safavids (which is in combo with much greatly belated QAR/AKK events) is to have Persia get released by the AKK in Azerbaijan with the three provinces that surround it to the south. So Persia doesnt exist until the ousting of AKK from Tabriz.
As I said before, I think its a bad idea to have the Safavids start off in Daghestan. For one that makes their power base very very weak. Secondly, I'm not convinced that they kept the region, as it isn't till later than many sources list Shrivan as being annexed. It seems to me that they took Shrivan, used it as a stop off point and then went on to take down the AKK, leaving Shrivan behind to re-coup. Thus the way I've been starting the Safavids (which is in combo with much greatly belated QAR/AKK events) is to have Persia get released by the AKK in Azerbaijan with the three provinces that surround it to the south. So Persia doesnt exist until the ousting of AKK from Tabriz.
chegitz guevara said:And we'll be seeing these alleged events when? *poke* *poke* *poke*
Yea I know I've been avoiding this...between my sickly state these last few months and taking way too many units..this just keeps get pushed back further and further. I haven't wanted to make a general release of them as they still need lots of working/adjustments.
You know, we're here to help. I'd like to get a looksee so we can start disassembling them and reassembling them.
Oh, that's right - that's good, then. I was thinking I'd have to change my Oriya events.Garbon said:
Hmm. I was thinking of Shirvan as a backup - the way that Novgorod can become Russia if Muscovy is destroyed. I've played enough games as the Ottomans (one of my favorites) that I've noticed Persia forming late or never in many games, playing havok with the Ottomans and Mughals. Ak Koyunlu gets wiped out, the Timurids/Mughals remain strong enough to deal with revolts - it happens too often for my tastes. Letting Shirvan become Persia as an ahistorical choice would satisfy the players who want to play Persia early on as well as providing a backup, lesser Persia in the event that Ak Koyunlu is wiped out.
On the other hand, I'm no expert - just thinking out loud.
Oh yeah.
Donald Edgar Pritcher, An Historical Geography of the Ottoman Empire, E. J. Brill Publishing, 1972.
In 1419, the Mamluks conquered the Karaman and controled the country until 1421.
In 1423, the Karaman and Teke besieged Antalya, which was in Ottoman hands before the conflict.
Smyrna was in Ottoman hands since 1416.
Donald Edgar Pritcher, An Historical Geography of the Ottoman Empire, E. J. Brill Publishing, 1972.
In 1419, the Mamluks conquered the Karaman and controled the country until 1421.
In 1423, the Karaman and Teke besieged Antalya, which was in Ottoman hands before the conflict.
Smyrna was in Ottoman hands since 1416.
You know, you get a book titled, A Short History of Turkish - Islamic States (Excluding the Ottomans) and you'd think it would have some decent information about the Anatolian principalities. You'd be wrong, however. There's nothing here about the ghazi states that I hadn't already seen elsewhere, except a sentence about a conflict between one branch of the house of Jandar and the Ottomans in 1423. Most of the emirates don't even merit a whole page!
I take it you didn't do an index check before you bought it . What did it have, out of curiosity? There really aren't that many Turkic states.
. What did it have, out of curiosity? There really aren't that many Turkic states.
You'd be surprised at how many Turkic states there were, even leaving out the pagan and Jewish ones. It looks like there's between 30 and 50 states discussed in this book, and I'm not sure all the Anatolian ones made it in the book.:wacko:
I didn't buy it though; I borrowed it through interlibrary loan. I'm begining to think I might need to learn Turkish, which, uhm, I'm not gonna do. Where are Yasko and the other Turks when you need them? I want to give them some assignments.
I didn't buy it though; I borrowed it through interlibrary loan. I'm begining to think I might need to learn Turkish, which, uhm, I'm not gonna do. Where are Yasko and the other Turks when you need them? I want to give them some assignments.
And you'd also have the issue of which Turkish to learn, too. My Ottoman lecturer only knows modern and late Ottoman - not early Ottoman, and only the noble and bureauratic forms. No chance with Seljuk or any of the others.
I think I've done my hard language - I learned English. Yes, as a first language, but I reckon it'd be a bitch to learn as a second. I'll shop around for something easy-looking for a second
And now that I think about it there kind of were a lot of Turkic states. What kind of timespan does it cover?
I think I've done my hard language - I learned English. Yes, as a first language, but I reckon it'd be a bitch to learn as a second. I'll shop around for something easy-looking for a second
And now that I think about it there kind of were a lot of Turkic states. What kind of timespan does it cover?