Anyone else hoping for an asymmetric start option?

[echo2361]

Count me in as another vote for asymmetric start options. I'm all for playing the usual sandbox start with all the major players on equal footing, but sometimes I want to start off playing the part of a little guy going up against established powers.

 

[RealGrognard]

No, I really like Doomdark's vision for it.

 

[Alectron]

On one side it is fair for all the players to start at the same time, so there would be no dominant species right at a start.
But on the other hand it sounds a bit unrealistic that all the civilisations found FTL engines at the same time. Plus it might be quite challenging and cool to start a game and find yourself surrounded by an advanced empire.
Maybe devs will add an option for an assymetrical start? Otherwise yes, we have mods

 

[gorillacakes]

people keep writing 'mods' but do we actually know if we'll be able to mod it?

Doomdark said so but such a user created mod would not be dynamically generated.

 

[kal56]

I think you might be wrong here. I expect we'll see an EU4/Vic 2 Style of Colonisation which will meter the pace of colony spamming. Because of this I imagine that the difference in size of empire by the time you start meeting will be minimal, it then becomes a question of how you make your decisions with where to colonise, because different planets will be well suited for different things.

I think the early game expansion will probably be like EU and Vic mechanically, however from the preview it seems like the broad picture still follows standard 4x strategy of early game expansion mid game interaction and struggle with other powers and then the late game were you're normally the most dominant power just cleaning up. Paradox seems to be trying to shake up the late game play hopefully they tweak the other phases too.

I like asymmetry because it makes game starts feel more distinctive and opens more rp in deciding what your nation would do. This idea of everybody starting the same means your opening move is always to colonize, even if paradox plans on different races having different methods of colonizing the strategy is the same.

edit: With all that said I can see some merit in the idea of a symmetrical start I just hope there are other dev support options.

 

[Aries666]

As a side note, I think that using the "mods will fix everything" argument should result in a ban.

This, this and this. People going on about modding a game that hasn't even been released yet is irritating and I imagine quite disheartening for a developer.

 

[The Andy-Man]

As a side note, I think that using the "mods will fix everything" argument should result in a ban.

Paradox games have great modders, and I can't think of a single Paradox game that wasn't vastly improved by a mod (except maybe CK1). Also, a modded 'asymetric' start would alow for alot of creative flair in the way someone decides to build their universe.

 

[gorillacakes]

Paradox games have great modders, and I can't think of a single Paradox game that wasn't vastly improved by a mod (except maybe CK1). Also, a modded 'asymetric' start would alow for alot of creative flair in the way someone decides to build their universe.

But a modified map cannot by randomly generated. You would always know where the powers are.

 

[The Andy-Man]

But a modified map cannot by randomly generated. You would always know where the powers are.

That's fine, EU, CK, HoI etc. manage fine with that being the case. It also means that the scenario can be balanced so that it's more fun and interesting. As I said, the creative flair of people who would make these would be allowed to shine.

A randomly generated asymetric start, for example, wouldn't easily allow for interesting backstories, in built conflicts, potential events etc.

 

[gorillacakes]

That's fine, EU, CK, HoI etc. manage fine with that being the case. It also means that the scenario can be balanced so that it's more fun and interesting. As I said, the creative flair of people who would make these would be allowed to shine.

A randomly generated asymetric start, for example, wouldn't easily allow for interesting backstories, in built conflicts, potential events etc.

I take your point regarding EU, CK and HOI but I disagree that an asymmetrical start wouldn't easily allow for interesting back-stories, in built conflicts or potential events. As a weaker and newly space faring race there would be all sorts of immersive role-playing experiences encountering more advanced civilisations. Aurora handles it nicely for e.g.

I do believe that a randomisation option would benefit the game and add to repeatability but it should only be optional.

 

[TheAtreides84]

The announcement article talked about how this game, unlike other paradox games, would not have an asymmetric start. There would be no "HRE" superpower at game start. Everyone would have the same starting position like in any traditional 4x game.

I'm wondering if I'm the only one who would LOVE an asymmetric start option where the game would generate a galaxy that has existing powers, history, and relationships, like any other paradox game. Maybe you join as a new race, emerging from your pre-warp state and joining the galaxy. Maybe you take the role of the "HRE super empire", overwhelmingly powerful but decadent, in decline, and facing crisis, can you save the empire or will it splinter and you'll build anew from its ashes? Maybe you're the junior power trying to take advantage of the fall of that empire while battling the other junior powers and gobbling up the emerging races or allying with them.

I don't think I'd always want to play this mode but I know for sure I would want to at least sometimes.

As I understand it, just the major races have a symmetrical start. It's not that different from lucky nations in EU4 being roughly equivalent in power.

 

[FelixG]

But a modified map cannot by randomly generated. You would always know where the powers are.

You may know WHERE the powers will be, but you might not have any idea WHAT those powers are.

For example if a modified map allows for "Insert Race Here" the race could still be randomly generated, just their boarders and colonized planets remain the same.

So for one play through the giant power might be a peaceful federation, the next game it might be a ravenous star empire bent on conquest.

 

[Beagá]

That's fine, EU, CK, HoI etc. manage fine with that being the case. It also means that the scenario can be balanced so that it's more fun and interesting. As I said, the creative flair of people who would make these would be allowed to shine.

A randomly generated asymetric start, for example, wouldn't easily allow for interesting backstories, in built conflicts, potential events etc.

IMO the issue is more that, while you fight a battle that lost 2 minutes, your population has doubled.

It´s too damn silly and the major reason I disliked Distant Worlds. It simply isn´t plausible, no matter the angle you look

I was expecting Pdox to make something better, not follow the old, and by now rather tired, trope of 1 planet start.

 

[King Ari]

I'm guessing the assymetry will come in part from how different the races are going to be. Some will expand far faster than others, for example.

I would love an assymetric start option too, though. Would be a cool merging of 4X and Paradox grand strategy .

I feel like your initial choice of FTL is going to have a huge impact on this

 

[Denkt]

The starting positions are asymmetrical, only the start is symmetrical (not actually true given the differen't attributes for each race).

On one side it is fair for all the players to start at the same time, so there would be no dominant species right at a start.
But on the other hand it sounds a bit unrealistic that all the civilisations found FTL engines at the same time. Plus it might be quite challenging and cool to start a game and find yourself surrounded by an advanced empire.
Maybe devs will add an option for an assymetrical start? Otherwise yes, we have mods

Only very few have developed FTL drives, many more are on a much more humble stage.

I feel like your initial choice of FTL is going to have a huge impact on this

Yes:
Hyper Lane will have their expansions connected with a hyper lane and thus expand like a line or a web.

Warp have more freedom with how they expand but have generaly the worst ability to defend because warp is slow even tought it can take shortcuts. Its probably expand like a circle

Wormhole expand the slowest because the extra cost to start it up but it have the best ability to defend because Wormhole is the fastest FTL method.

 

[King Ari]

What if there was an option where you could generate a world and races, and then let the clock run 10/50/100 years or some other set time and then pick one of the civilizations to play. Also it could let some of the civilizations get FTL at different times so there would be a mix of smaller and larger empires

 

[Ivashanko]

I suspect that eventually an expansion will add asymmetrical starts since a lot of people (myself included) seem to want one.

 

[serpentskirt]

All they need is to get license for Vorkosigan universe scenario and bam - you have a nice asymmetrical start!

 

[Amroth]

To be honest i will be doing the same thing i sometimes do with ck2/eu4 if i have the chance, ill start the game in observer let it run for a century or so and then choose someone to play as.