Aquatic changes and a bug

[CocoCincinnati]

So far, I am not a fan of the changes to Anglers/Aquatic. Previously this would split your ag district jobs between anglers and pearl divers and was a way to produce some consumer goods along with your food industry...it made sense thematically and was a fun bit of flavor. Now it just changes your artisans into pearl divers which is a bit immersion breaking to think the entire commercial goods industry for the whole empire is based around pearls. I also used to pair anglers with master crafters to create this trade empire based mainly around consumer goods and it worked well, but there is no reason to take both anymore since they change the same job. And if you are wondering the pearl diver (+1CG vs artisan) will overwrite the artificer (+2CG vs artisan).

Will it be possible to mod these civics back the way they were pre 4.0 or do the changes to how the system works make that impossible? I will miss my ocean paradise trade build. RIP

Also, ran across a pretty significant bug in this build...my home world had anglers, but my ocean colonies had regular old farmers.

 

[RoverStorm]

I also used to pair anglers with master crafters to create this trade empire based mainly around consumer goods and it worked well, but there is no reason to take both anymore since they change the same job.

Not true, take a more careful look ingame:

Never heard of a "Pearl Crafter", but according to the game files:

This is unique to the civic combo.

(Also job "swaps" are apparently tend to be secretly "merged" now anyways, such as Merchants and Technophants if you go Augmentation Bazaar with Cybernetic Creed. They're still called Technophants, but get the effects of both jobs)

which is a bit immersion breaking to think the entire commercial goods industry for the whole empire is based around pearls.

Also read the description of the jobs a bit more carefully:

(and normal Pearl Divers for comparison

Doesn't even mention Pearls in the actual job description. It's a...quirky name, to be sure. But it's far from the weirdest naming choice in Stellaris. Let's talk about Arcologies, which is defined as a structure that is self-sustaining for the people who live inside, but in Stellaris terms refers to almost the exact opposite: a planet that inevitable requires gigantic amounts of off-world resources to remain functional.

 

[RoverStorm]

Ok, I'm looking further into Anglers, someone tell me when did they make it so we can mix Subterranean and Anglers?

Spoiler

Am I crazy or was this not possible in prior updates? Could have sworn that Aquatic and Subterranean were mutually exclusive?
Also not a horrible combo in general either. Not to mention Agrarian Idyll as well can be merged.

This is thematically the coolest thing I have found in a while.

 

[Ishyro]

Note that you can't have pearl divers without the aquaculture district, since it's this one that makes the job swap, not just building CG on a ocean world. So for immersion, it's still guys working underwater.

Concerning the power level of the civic, it's like 5x stronger than before, even without the incredible synergy with master crafters, because on planets where you want food, you can go full food with anglers, and on planets where you want only CG, you can go only CG, without closing half the jobs like in 3.14.

There is also the elephant in the room, food being actually usefull with bio ships (and even more important, bio mining / research stations), but that's not directly linked to the civic.

Edit: I forgot to mention the late game synergy with the farming support district:

It's adding trade upkeep in exchange of famer output, but anglers also produce trade, so whil do do lose a bit of trade (and even less with the megacorp version), you can use it far more easily than the standard farmer one.

Angler is probably the strongest economic civic in early game, and keep it's relevance in late game when it wasn't the case in 3.14. It's only drawback is that's its forcing you to pick the aquatic pop trait, but you can always remove it afterward.

 

[RoverStorm]

It's adding trade upkeep in exchange of famer output, but anglers also produce trade, so whil do do lose a bit of trade (and even less with the megacorp version), you can use it far more easily than the standard farmer one.

I don't think you can say it "loses" trade when it also gives 4 trade worth of jobs. The trade from each level of city district with this specialization can support 600 farmers/anglers, with zero trade output modifiers. Not to mention that isn't +20% Food output, that is Farmer output. So the extra 2 trade from Anglers is also getting an extra 0.4 trade per level of city district. So one city district with Farming Support "actually" covers the trade demands of 15 Anglers. Before trade modifiers, which almost instantly makes Anglers profitable enough that every level of city district is pure profit.

Of course...Farming support districts come at the cost of farming districts, since Anglers have uncapped farming districts. But then again, if you have an open specialization slot and city districts for other purposes, why NOT slap on a farming support if you also have food districts on planet?

 

[CocoCincinnati]

Not true, take a more careful look ingame:

View attachment 1300393


Also read the description of the jobs a bit more carefully:
View attachment 1300396
(and normal Pearl Divers for comparison
View attachment 1300397
Doesn't even mention Pearls in the actual job description. It's a...quirky name, to be sure. But it's far from the weirdest naming choice in Stellaris. Let's talk about Arcologies, which is defined as a structure that is self-sustaining for the people who live inside, but in Stellaris terms refers to almost the exact opposite: a planet that inevitable requires gigantic amounts of off-world resources to remain functional.

Thanks for pointing this out, I owe the devs an apology , although in my defense it's not the easiest thing in the world to spot.
I went in and compared the two and from a rough estimate the crafters provide about 2/3 more trade and about 15% more CG's than the divers.

 

[RoverStorm]

Thanks for pointing this out, I owe the devs an apology , although in my defense it's not the easiest thing in the world to spot.
I went in and compared the two and from a rough estimate the crafters provide about 2/3 more trade and about 15% more CG's than the divers.

You are perfectly fine. I wouldn't have noticed if I didn't look at the code for specialist jobs for unrelated reasons and noticed it.

It seems to be, if I'm reading the code correctly, combines the exact changes both pearl divers and artificers make to normal artisans. So I think +2 CG and +2 trade from artificers, and then anglers gives +2 trade and replace 2 mineral upkeep with 3 food upkeep.

Also I discovered a bug in the code that I'm going to report. Seems that Trawling Operation's "Chief Marine Officer" does NOT give the listed +0.2 trade per angler and +0.4 trade per pearl diver, but actually gives +2% trade per angler (0.04 trade, non-multiplicative with trade modifiers) and +4% trade (0.08 trade) per pearl diver. This effectively means that the Megacorp version of this civic doesn't have a councilor position, as that is a hilariously awful set of stats compared to the same thing flat.

EDIT: To clarify why I'm positive this was an accident, this would mean the megacorp version of the civic is actually makes less trade than the normal version simply selling the extra resources it gets at the minimum price possible due to market saturation and the full 30% market tax.

 

[RoverStorm]

Also, ran across a pretty significant bug in this build...my home world had anglers, but my ocean colonies had regular old farmers.

This is not a bug with anglers (and it turns out the councilor positions for these civics are hilariously broken, in quite a few ways)

Ocean planets no longer automatically turn farmers into Anglers.

Now, you must research and unlock the ability to "specialize" your farming districts.

Anglers get a unique farm district specialization that converts all farmers into anglers, and also adds 100 farmers (instantly turned into anglers) like the normal version of the specialization. This specialization also turns all of your artisans on planet into Pearl Divers (or Pearl Crafters)

Hover over the "+" button on your colony's farming district and see what technology it requires. You will find it in the Society tech options, and it probably requires some food-related technologies before it can appear.

If you want to know what else I've discovered is broken by code diving, here's the TLR:

Only Anglers seem to be working correctly.
Council Position for Megacorp Anglers (Trawling Operations) gives modifiers instead of flat income, making it hilariously weak.
Council Position for Machine Anglers (Marine Machines) has doubled pearl diver code and gives twice the consumer goods it's supposed to.
Council Position for Megacorp Machine Anglers (Maritime Robotics) does literally nothing at all.

Funky!

Here's the full bug report I wrote up, if you are curious about the details:

Stellaris - [v4.0.10]&[10cb] Chief Marine Officer has wrong stats & Machine version does nothing (Code Details Included)(Fix proposal included)

Description [v4.0.10]&[10cb] Chief Marine Officer has wrong stats & Machine version does nothing (Code Details Included)(Fix proposal included) Game Version Phoenix What version do you use? Steam What expansions do you have installed? Do you...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[Twogs]

About the Pearl Crafters (Artificer + Pearl Diver):

I actually made a post a few days back about all these new job combinations. Noble + High Priest = Sacred Noble and so on.
The system works by adding all the modifiers, always. You can even stack 3 different job changes, for example Noble + High Priest + Merchant.

 

[CocoCincinnati]

This is not a bug with anglers (and it turns out the councilor positions for these civics are hilariously broken, in quite a few ways)

Ocean planets no longer automatically turn farmers into Anglers.

Now, you must research and unlock the ability to "specialize" your farming districts.

Anglers get a unique farm district specialization that converts all farmers into anglers, and also adds 100 farmers (instantly turned into anglers) like the normal version of the specialization. This specialization also turns all of your artisans on planet into Pearl Divers (or Pearl Crafters)

Hover over the "+" button on your colony's farming district and see what technology it requires. You will find it in the Society tech options, and it probably requires some food-related technologies before it can appear.

If you want to know what else I've discovered is broken by code diving, here's the TLR:

Only Anglers seem to be working correctly.
Council Position for Megacorp Anglers (Trawling Operations) gives modifiers instead of flat income, making it hilariously weak.
Council Position for Machine Anglers (Marine Machines) has doubled pearl diver code and gives twice the consumer goods it's supposed to.
Council Position for Megacorp Machine Anglers (Maritime Robotics) does literally nothing at all.

Funky!

I started a new game last night and discovered the need for the specialized district, seems to be working fine. Lots of changes to learn. One more I discovered last night is that just picking the tradition in mercantile that used to give extra trader jobs to commercial zone building now only gives those extra jobs when you build a commercial nexus. This is a trade build so I will be building plenty of those anyway.

Also I have one more to add to your councilor position list. The chief trade officer (corporate dominion) is supposed to add 2% trade per level but that benefit is not listed on the tool tip and if it is applying the bonus, I don't see where it is being listed. My trade income didn't seem to change at the start of the next month after creating the council position.

 

[GhostDanny]

Ok, I'm looking further into Anglers, someone tell me when did they make it so we can mix Subterranean and Anglers?

Spoiler

View attachment 1300409

Am I crazy or was this not possible in prior updates? Could have sworn that Aquatic and Subterranean were mutually exclusive?
Also not a horrible combo in general either. Not to mention Agrarian Idyll as well can be merged.

This is thematically the coolest thing I have found in a while.

OMG! You can combine Aquatic pearldivers with cave dwellers now?!

 

[GhostDanny]

I am saddened about agricultural districts no longer being split between anglers and pearldivers...

 

[RoverStorm]

I am saddened about agricultural districts no longer being split between anglers and pearldivers...

There is definitely a missed opportunity to have a version of the aquatic specialization that replaces some anglers with pearl divers, I feel.

 

[minicoop1275]

The changes seems to be pretty good overall for anglers. And this coming from someone who uses almost exclusively anglers. The change I would like to see, is a special district that combines Anglers, Agrarian Idyll and/or the Bio tech specialisation.