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Lennartos

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May 9, 2005
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Yes, its back :cool:

This thread is an collection of suggestions i found around the forum
Feel free to make comments and add suggestions as long as they are currently non moddable..
meaning: they require an exe change.

Last edited: 9-10/4-08
Removed obsolete posts... added links to current threads.

10/3-08
Added leader point and revsed the anti partisan supression point.

26/1-08
Removed stuff covered by the TC thread.

14/1... in 7 minutes bursts

12/1-08 23:34
Added point about moddable enddate.

2/12-07 14:02
Production and air force suggestions edited

edited: 31/12-07 ~16:40-02:00
TC text removed and added link to current thread
Rewrote Air Force suggestions
Rewrote Convoy suggestions
Re Ordered pretty much entire thread, for more acessibility...

Critical
Very Important
Important
Nice to have
Fixed
Unresonable requests :) (HOI3 material?)

1) Air force..
a) Remodel Air War:
Link to the Air imprements Thread

b) It should be possible to assign multiple stacks to one mission, by right clicking on province... if all stacks have enough range
c) Ground attack damage should not be linear down to 0.
g) Either make ground attack also inflict ORG damage, or Merge the "interdiction" and "ground attack" air missions. They both mean "attack enemy ground troops:" the planes should automatically reduce org and/or strength depending on the situation(dugin level for example).
h) Ground Attack mission: When calculating target province take target entrenchment value into consideration, so planes dont waste time on attacking a single fully entrenched unit instead of the fleeing divisions in the neighboring provinces.
ALternatively remodel air attack entirey... maybe affect entire area?



2) convoys...
a) Convoys should try different routes based on danger level, and avoid seazones that are dangerous. If all passible routes are heavily patrolled (suecide mission), dont send convoys on the route.
b) Auto convoy does not ship to provinces that only need oil, but have lots of supplies.
c) Round robin trips.(round robin trips i have not seen in armageddon 1.1... is it fixed?)
sometimes the AI assigns 400+ convoys for sending resources back and forth between worthless abandoned islands...
these convoys have to be deleted manually.
d) Overusage of convoys
When a convoy target becomes inacessible (target is in the mediterranian, but suez and/or gilbatrar got cut off) AI assigns all free convoys to these routes.

Extra info in the TC suggestion thread: Link

3)missions...? micromanegment!
a) Anti Partisan: Remove the bonus on supression, there is currently no negative effect besides extra supression value. Then the auto attack feature is optional.
b) Ability to add 1 year to mission with either shift click on month, or new +- buttons!
c) shore bombardment should slowly damage coastal forts, while coastal forts should damage ships while shore bombarding.
d) when usining the naval interdiction / naval combat patrol mission(maybe just navalcombat) , you should also sink convoys/escorts. An enemy ship is an enemy ship.
e) Strategic redeployment should not make units immaterial. If units are strat deployed out of a pocket just before the pocket closes, they should still be in the pocket.(and be released from strat deploy, if no route is found to come any closer)
Solution step 1: Remove strat deploy option if unit is on guarded enemy border.
Solution step 2: Strategical redeployed divison should move on the map from province to province... if they are intercepted along the way they will be deployed on the current province.
Solution step 3: Show redeployed units with a small sprite like the colonist in EU2.
Also a minimum province infrastructure should be necessary to strategically redeploy... that way units can be stopped from redeploying by destroying the infrastructure.


4) armys / battles
For Info and ideas: Link
a) Introduce a defence stacking penality. 100 divisions in gilbatrar / maginot line should not be a perfect defence.
b) Increase STR Damage while fighting. Please give us acess to str/org damage multiplyers so that we can apply modifiers to the different mods.
c) occupied partisan activity is hard coded, please give us access to the occpied partisan value, or at least link it to the base nationalism value.(should propably be linked, seems weird to have 4 dissent until annexation... and then have 30 or 50%)
d) The speed of a ship/fleet should have an effect on their positioning in combat.
e) Artilliery should add an attriction value to enemy forces adjancent to it(like vicky rev fortresses do) and lowering their Org increase.
f) Bombing airport should do damage on planes positioned on that airport.
g) Supply usage should not be constant. while supply usage should be low while units are idle(mostly food and a few spare parts), it should skyrocket for units in battle(ammunition/bombs).
Quick fix:
Nomal supply consumption when standing still.
+50% supply consumption while moving
+400% supply consumption while battling
Advanced fix: make a value for each in each unit. so STR planes could use 20 times the normal supply usage when attacking, while fighters unly use 8 times the normal usage.

h) Every stack should have a little reserve supply stock. When out of supply(too little TC?), it uses these supplies. When these supplies are running out the "out off supply" efficiency modifier starts to kicks in.

5) design / bugs:
a)Fix gfx engine to allow more than 10 levels on each unit type(99?).
b)some of the democratic events have wrong tooltip or are just nor working properly( it says it moves me 2 to democracy, but when event is selected it didnt move at all?)
c) in multiplayer we pretty often(3 times in 5 years) have an error of missing tech research. A client researches something, but after he finishes, he cannot select any research depending on that research( its selectable, but he cannot press on start research button). when master saves, and reloads the client doesnt have the tech researched.
d) if AI aircraft have "unlimited" range as long as there is an airpoirt in range of target, then make the same thing happen with navy... no more amphibius assoult without beeing within 4000km of nearest port range.(make island hopping matter to AI)
e) when using the auto IC slider function, i should be able to determine if i mind having a negative income. why would i use 10 extra IC on consumer goods to make 0.0 money, if i have 22.000 money already?
f) Ability to sack(promote to paperjobs?) unwanted generals and create new random mj gnr. leaders(wich can gain experience and be upgraded)...Either by training them,by event or by battle experience (some soldiers do get promoted)..This would really help playing minors, wich dont have much historical leaders...
g) Not all sprites for units / models seem to work..
h) IC should be tradeable(lend lease), and on the open negotiations, allow sending convoys
i) limit the resource stockpiling: The home depot cannot store indefinetly resources. Solution:look at the improved TC thread!
j) expand manpower stacking limit of 9999.
l) occupied partisan activity and annexed partisan activity are additive, resulting in double partisan activity, when province is "liberated" from the newly annexing nation. for example finland when just been annexed by russia will net germany 50+ dissent per province when beeing liberated.
m) Allow brigades to modify penalitys, and move engineer river crossing bonus to brigade file. Very important: the modifier should be on a typ basis not a brigade ( for examle, so we can have a "normal" atrillery and a siege artillery that decreases fortification malus.)
o) CVLs should have a upgradeable brigade like the CAGs
p) There should be a small reverse research ahead time penality, if tech is old. This would simulate the slow spread of technology and even the techs as time goes by... also it would help minors to catch up.
r) Infrastructrue building cost and time should be influenced by the terrain type and province size. It should be harder to harder to get a rail across the himalaya then across france.
s) Enginer brigades should speed up infra repair in province.
t) Way too much time is wasted in the deployment screen, sort the deployment sceen in division types, instead of seeing 30+ different units, and deploying one at a time, show only the division types to be deployed:
So
INF 41
INF 41
---SNIP---
ARM 4
becomes:
3 INF 41
7 INF 39
4 ARM 4
By clicking on one type multiple times you can deploy more than one at a time. This would be really helpful when playing USA and USSR at their hights(and deploying V1&V2 as germany in masses)

u)Sometimes moving units can dissaper without apparent reason if they are attacked and they loose.
Also i have seen a unit attacking the next province without having taken the own province first... when aborting the battle in the first hour it died.

v) Make the whole slider matrix moddable (so that one can adjust the modifications that are related to slider positions, like dissent hits for releasing puppets, standing vs. drafting army balance, etc.)
w) Enddate should be defined in the scenarios. No hardcoded upper or lower time limit.
x) Leaders reaching max exp and skill should be autopromoted at no cost.

6) Spying missions:
Should propable be emtirely remodelled.... maybe a seperate thread again?
a) AI should defend against spies more efficiently
b) having 25% chance works 5-10% of the time? feels like that anyway...
c) spy detection chance even when failed should be way lower... its not vey likely that every action taken by spies is detected. A successful send spy should almost always be undetected. Also increase beliggerance by some small amount if detected.
d) success in missions should also be determined by defending spies.(making the attack defending spys mission more interesting)
e) Way too much micromanegement. How about an autosend checkbox in the intelligence screen? Sending new spy to selected country if spycnt < 10..
6f) Give us an option to turn the spying aspect of the game off (and get global national comparisons in the stats folder as if it were HoI2).
6g) The scaling and cost/benefits of spying are broken. Example: it costs the same for the US to spy on the Soviet Union or Germany as it does for Belgium to spy on Luxembourg. It should be easy for Belgium to know what's going on in Luxembourg, and for Luxembourg to know what's going on in Belgium, but in fact it's horribly expensive for both of them. Meanwhile, the US can easily have 10 spies each in Germany and Japan. Why not? it barely notices the cost, and worsening diplomatic relationships with Germany and Japan are good from the USA's point of view. But historically, Luxembourg had a much better idea of what Belgium was up to than the US did about Germany or Japan.

Part (a) of the solution: the cost of spying should increase (not as fast as linearly) with distance between capitals, and it should also increase (not as fast as linearly) with the number of provinces of the country that's being spied on.

Part (b) of the solution: all countries should know basic information (i.e. the sort of things you know with one or two spies) about all other countries without manually coding the spies in. E.g. Jane's publishes a list of the world's warships; in 1943 any private citizen could find out how many battleships the UK and the USA had just by going down to the bookstore.

Part (c) of the solution: Sending spies shouldn't hurt relations. After all, you're just opening a consulate in Sverdlovsk or Grand Falls. Instead, actually doing spy missions on countries you're at peace with should have a chance of worsening relations or increasing your belligerence, depending on the spy mission in question. Spy missions on countries you're at war with shouldn't hurt relations or increase belligerence (espionage is a normal part of war), but they should have a reduced chance of success


7) naval things
a) General Rule: Any vastly outnumbered and outgunned fleet (especially Subs and undefended transports) should try to flee as soon as possible. there is no reason whatsoever that my 12DD would try to fight 12 SHBB playing shooting gallery.(with my DDs)
b) Subs engaging capital ships should have a single free shot at a capital, if it manages to suprise a fleet. ( it was detected after the topedo hit). And then obey rule 7a.
c) Fleeing should not be a 100% sure thing, after 3 hours inability to flee. Remove the 3 hour rule, and replace with a fleeing chance per hour based on relative fleet speed, visibility/naval detection,weather+day/night, and admiral skill.
c) remove Ghost fleets.

8) AI
a) if there is heavy air cover, dont keep on sending bombers!
b) dont send all those 2*CLs stacks alone out in the sea, only real stacks with capital ships. Screening ships alone are just target practice.
c) if i am pounding a region with 16 or 32 air divisions on ground attack... DONT MOVE happily entrenched land units. reestablish basic air cover first.
d) Autotrade, Autoreply: dont let a human player buy all money from another country.(did that to a german player as ENG... he was using 30IC extra on money and barely made an breakeven... so he didnt have enough to defend agains spies). :D
Moneys resource value should not be static.. but also be determined by free market slider

e)watch out when rebasing planes close to enemy borders... dont rebase to province next to enemy when province army is fleeing.
f) More control of the AI values.
Gormadoc said:
The current Air and Naval AI is pretty bad. We need to be able to micro program the AI much more. What we need is the best from Garrison AI, Naval AI and AIR AI.
AIR AI : we need the same possibilities as with garrisan AI to tell the AIR AI where to place its airforce and what provinces are important to defend/attack like the Core/target seazone for naval AI. The current hardcoded system scatters the AIR AI all over the board.
Naval AI : We should have the same possibilities as with AIR AI to program taskforces for different missions. Subs should have their own Naval section so it is possible to program independent target priorities for subs and surface fleet. Before this is implemented it is impossible to have a good Naval AI.


9) Improved Diplomacy/gameplay..
a) Instead of only dissent, wich is a symptom let us have a new value to keep an eye on. Something like War exhaustion or public opninion. if WE is high (or low public opinion), it slowly increases dissent(increasing consumer goods demand). WE/ PO is easyer to influence in democratic nations(both positiva as negative).
loosing manpower will affect WE.. also capturing and loosing victory points(yay,we are winning,the end of war is near... urgh,we are not getting anywhere... let us stop this nonsense ).
The WW or PO will increase or decrease the minimum Consumer goods(more propaganda needed to keep a low dissent country).

b) Apart from the beliggerence requirement for democracys... declaring war while having a high beliggerence themself will increase War exhaustion. The less the difference in beliggerence the worse, to the agressor. think of vickys prestige.
c) Give us the ability to trade provinces we control to our allies, not just provinces we own. Example: I'm playing Britain, am allied with Greece, and capture Rhodes. Since Rhodes is a Greek core but not a British core, I want to transfer it, but I can't until I gain ownership, which requires defeating Italy.
d) Give us the ability to annex puppet nations diplomatically. Maybe add a little dissent to balance things out.

10) Production
See: Link
c) IC manpower value usage:
Start and buildable IC should use about 10MP/IC depending on research and sliders.
This manpower should be visible as a resource as it can be drafted to military service while reducing IC output, if no more free manpower is availeble.
d) New construction options for example:
Synthetic oil plant
Hardened sub pens ( air damage reduced on light ships)
Underground factories (to protect IC production).

e) Rebalance money production.
For starters, consumer goods should only give money if MORE than the required amount is produced.
Also instead of just using CG to make money allow unused manpower to give money.


11) Events
a) Give us a trigger condition which checks whether a country has a core on a particular province.
b) Give us an event command to wake a minister (and a code in minister files for ministers who should only be woken by event, not by date).
c) Expand the ispuppet trigger condition with yes/no to check if country is puppet or not.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Sliders:

Make the whole slider matrix modable (so that one can adjust the modifications that are related to slider positions, like dissent hits for releasing puppets, standing vs. drafting army balance, etc.)

Add the possibility to have dissent hits when you release (not creat) a puppet (relaistic for dictatorships).
 
pierrot73 said:
Sliders:

Make the whole slider matrix modable (so that one can adjust the modifications that are related to slider positions, like dissent hits for releasing puppets, standing vs. drafting army balance, etc.)

Add the possibility to have dissent hits when you release (not creat) a puppet (relaistic for dictatorships).

Added matrix should me moddable point (5w)
the ispuppet trigger condition has already been added (see 11c)
 
5r) TC usage of units should also depend on infrastructure, as more TC is used to transport the goods across bad infrastructure. Another solution is to increase the Supply usage in low infrastructure provinces making it more feasable to concentrate units on high infra provinces

replaced above text,and wrote it to be more coder friendly, and included milestones.
see last edit info
 
Last edited:
11 a) See the trigger "core = { province = [prov id] data = TAG }" - allows you to check if the specified province is a core (national) province of TAG.

11 b) There is a command that exists in game, unfortunately, it is a hold over from HoI 1, and seems to be broken. But technically, the command is :-

command = { type = minister which = [minister id] }

This gives the right messages (eg "Albert Speer is now available as a Minister"), but doesn't actually seem to work.

11 c) As previously noted, you can use the trigger of "ispuppet = yes" for this.

Tim
 
HistoryMan said:
11 a) See the trigger "core = { province = [prov id] data = TAG }" - allows you to check if the specified province is a core (national) province of TAG.
Tim
Cannot find this trigger.
Addcore/removecore are the only event names that include "core"

HistoryMan said:
11 b) There is a command that exists in game, unfortunately, it is a hold over from HoI 1, and seems to be broken. But technically, the command is :-

command = { type = minister which = [minister id] }

This gives the right messages (eg "Albert Speer is now available as a Minister"), but doesn't actually seem to work.
According to wiki that is a trigger to check if he is selectable/woken up, not an command to wake the minister.

HistoryMan said:
11 c) As previously noted, you can use the trigger of "ispuppet = yes" for this.
Okay... that was bad description... what was missing was a general ispuppet = yes for random/releasing events.
trigger.. not the ispuppet = [tag]
 
Where are you looking for these commands / triggers ? A number of commands and triggers exist that are not documented in the "event commands" file or on the Wiki.

Have a look at http://hearts-of-iron.com/?page=events#toc32 for a list of commands/triggers from HoI 1 - almost all of these are still valid (though some, like the "type = minister which = [minister id]" are now seemingly broken - ie technically valid code (that is, the game engine doesn't report an error), but not actually doing what they are supposed to).

Re the "ispuppet" trigger. You can use "ispuppet = yes" as a valid trigger - just checks if the country the event is for is a puppet.

Tim
 
I think there should also be a limit to how many divisions will fit in a given province. There is no way that 110 US divisions will fit in Guam, or that I will be able to base all 200 flotillas of the Royal Navy in Scapa Flow.

And an option to annex your puppet without war if you choose to do so, even if they are allied to you. This is entirely historical. Vichy comes to mind.
 
OK....
i just used 30 mins to test all combinations of the ispuppet trigger...
it does NOT work with "yes".. you have to user a valid country tag.
the wiki is correct on this.
The request to implement the command stands.

As for the minister command... its just as you say.. there are some leftovers from HOI1.. but they are not implemented for the new engine.
There also are graphics from HOI1 in the GFX folder... but that doesnt help either, does it?
The request to implement the command stands.
 
Rodrico Stak said:
I think there should also be a limit to how many divisions will fit in a given province. There is no way that 110 US divisions will fit in Guam, or that I will be able to base all 200 flotillas of the Royal Navy in Scapa Flow.

And an option to annex your puppet without war if you choose to do so, even if they are allied to you. This is entirely historical. Vichy comes to mind.

1) look at 4a.... i cannot see a good way to simulate a maximum amount of divisions in prvinces exept for a defence stacking penality.

2) the annex puppet i think is a good idea..
But there should propably be some limitations or downsides.. any ideas on that subject?
 
Here is my preliminary data on the supply line subject.

Recalculating an entire playing field (2025 provinces) from a capital takes about 40ms on my PC.(simple djikstra algorithm)
Speedup solutions like splitting all isles/continents should improve this by quite a bit.
So its quite feasable to make it more complex.
Of course it should be optional to preserve the speed for slow(mobile?) computers.
Also DualCore and quadcore will add a (almost) linear speed increase.
 
Lennartos said:
1) look at 4a.... i cannot see a good way to simulate a maximum amount of divisions in prvinces exept for a defence stacking penality.

2) the annex puppet i think is a good idea..
But there should propably be some limitations or downsides.. any ideas on that subject?
I did see 4a... but I was thinking that along with the stacking penalty there should be a point where you can not even attempt to place another division there... because there's no room.

Probably a good downside to annexing a puppet would be that you would get increased partisan activity in those provinces, and a small dissent hit. This would simulate that the people were already unhappy about being ruled indirectly by you, so now they are very angry that you are ruling them directly. Also, you probably shouldn't be able to annex a puppet that you don't share a border with.
 
Again on the supply issue...
the game already does a supply distribution calculation.
It even considers the infrastructure of the provinces...
but as far as i can see it doesnt use thge value to anything, also im not sure if the total travel cost is counted along the way, but i would suspect it does.
The function just seems to have been dropped along the way, maybe to get the product finished on time.

if this is correct, then it should be rather simle to upgrade the existing function without much loss of speed.
(whats going to take time are the AI extensions in using convoys as shortcut for supply lines, and balancing the TC usage again).

Also i have added the diplo annex option
 
h) Every stack should have a little reserve supply stock. When out of supply, it uses these supplies. When these supplies are running out the "out off supply" efficiency modifier starts to kicks in.

Added above text...
Every division carrys spare ammunition and ration with them... its only when these run out that "out of supply" is applicable.
 
Happy new year!

TC text removed and added link to current thread
Rewrote Air Force suggestions
Rewrote Convoy suggestions
ReOrdered pretty much entire thread, for more acessibility...
 
Alterative endates should be modable. Besides, the AI does not assign IC to production in any game set after 1999. (Which makes Modern Day Scenario 2 for Armageddon impossible to make)

I think these are semi-critical faults, pease put them on your list if you find them noteworthy. :)
 
interested coders please

Added...

now, for anyone who hasnt seen the good news: Paradox opening older games to interested coders

Next patch for EU3 will propably be out last januart or early february.
Armageddon patch 1.2 propably early-medio march.

after the 1.2 patch we can propably assume that HOI2 will be opened as HOI2 has the biggest fanbase and potential.(and thats what counts)

So who will join the project for creating a better HOI2?
 
Lennartos said:
So who will join the project for creating a better HOI2?
Certainly I will. Perhaps we can implement all these changes? :cool:

Oh, and something else I thought of:

Make it possible to create a neutral puppet (ie. one that won't be at war with your enemies), they'd be less of a puppet though - able to trade with everyone and unable to join your alliance until you assert control (which will cause both you and them a dissent hit and a relations hit, plus you get higher belligerence), but they'd still give you their extra resources.

Creating a new, independent country (or in rare cases, a puppet) should be possible through peace negotiations as well. Examples include Yugoslavia, which was created after WWI.

Also, some on-the-spot reporting, if anyone hasn't noticed it:

1) EU3: Napoleons Ambition
2) HOI2DD: Armageddon
3) CK: Deus Vult


Next patch.. ETA end of January.

Which means that after the EU3 patch (probably at the end of January), we can expect HOI2: DD Arma 1.2.
 
Rodrico Stak said:
Certainly I will. Perhaps we can implement all these changes? :cool: .

Thats why i ask... lets get together for the great changes :D
if you havent seen the TC thread please do so.. (my signature)
My thought is to make each game aspect into one thread, so that we can discuss it and implemet it, when we get the source.


Rodrico Stak said:
Make it possible to create a neutral puppet (ie. one that won't be at war with your enemies), they'd be less of a puppet though - able to trade with everyone and unable to join your alliance until you assert control (which will cause both you and them a dissent hit and a relations hit, plus you get higher belligerence), but they'd still give you their extra resources.
you mean a vichy-france style puppet? (self gouverning puppet?)
however they should not be able to trade and give you excess material...
One or the other, not both... best solution is propably to let them be able to trade with others but you should get very high trade bonus, as they are your puppet...

Rodrico Stak said:
Creating a new, independent country (or in rare cases, a puppet) should be possible through peace negotiations as well. Examples include Yugoslavia, which was created after WWI.

you mean force release a vassal as part of a peace nogotiation,just like EU3?

Rodrico Stak said:
Also, some on-the-spot reporting, if anyone hasn't noticed it:
...
Which means that after the EU3 patch (probably at the end of January), we can expect HOI2: DD Arma 1.2.
yes,ýes.. i have noticed :)
thats why i wrote:
"Next patch for EU3 will propably be out last januart or early february.
Armageddon patch 1.2 propably early-medio march."
 
It occurred to me that they probably won't release HoI2 for us to edit. However, (and this is just my guess) they might possibly release HoI1. I think that probably we'd be able to make a game that plays much like HoI2 with these changes starting from HoI1.