Asia recommended characters for 867, 1066 and 1187 ?

[Zeprion]

With the map expansion it is likely every starting date is going to receive a East Asian recommended characters, I know little about the history of East Asia in this time period and that's what makes it interesting for me to learn. What rulers do you think will be so interesting that they will become part of the recommended characters for 867, 1066 and 1187 ? the poster boys. I bet Genghis Khan is going to be one for 1187, but what about the other 14?

 

[tribnia]

Wang Anshi (1021-1086) is a most stubborn, influencial and controversial bureaucrat in Song history. He was a nice person himself and famous as a writer. Favored by the emperor, he started a reformation aiming at increasing government revenue and strengthening its military power. However, this reformation harmed his fellow bureacracts, and opened up an age of fierce factional political struggle with almost every high bureaucrat in empire involved. Viewing the reformation as a chance to rank up, many immoral speculators chose his side, only made everything worse.
During the major military failure of Song in 1127, it was his faction that was in power, many later opponents blamed him for that.
1178 was a big year for Japan. The famous Genpei War would start in 1180, ending up with Minamoto no Yoritomo being the first shogun. A recent anime called the Heike Story showed that period.

 

[toroltao]

Wugunai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wugunai was the first recognizable Jurchen leader. He was around 48 years old in 1066 and his lineage eventually defeated the Liao dynasty and formed the Jin dynasty.

 

[EasternTiger]

Temujin is already a bookmark character in the 1178 start date's Endless Sky bookmark.

For the other start dates, East Asia could get:

867:
Gao Pian (高駢): Restored Tang control of Vietnam from Dali kingdom. Was also a general during the Huang Chao rebellion.

Huang Chao (黃巢): While probably just still a free-booting salt smuggler, he would later launch a major rebellion that would tip the Tang further into decline.

Zhuye Chixin (朱邪赤心): A Shatuo Turk chieftian, he served the Tang dynasty and later changed his name to Li Guochang. Was the father of Li Keyong who founded the state of Jin.

Minamoto no Makoto (源 信): First recorded member of the famous Minamoto clan.

Wang Chakchegŏn (王作帝建): While only the local strongman of modern-day Kaesong and a merchant in his time, he was grandfather of founder of the Koryŏ kingdom, Wang Kŏn, who would be born in 877.

Kim Wihong (金魏弘): The brother of the current king of Silla, he would be the most powerful government official in Silla by the 870s. He would also later become the lover or husband (depends on the source) of his niece, Queen Chinsŏng, in proper CK3 fashion.

Yelü Saladi (耶律撒剌的): Father of Yelu Abaoji who founded the Liao dynasty.


1066:
Su Shi (蘇軾): A famous poet and politician of the Song dynasty, and an opponent of Wang Anshi.

Sima Guang (司馬光): Author of the Zizhi Tongjian and a chancellor of the Song dynasty, also opposed Wang Anshi

Minamoto no Yoshiie (源 義家): A Japanese commander who defeated several rebellions and was considered as the son of Hachiman for his martial exploits.

Lý Nhật Tôn (李日尊): Vietnamese emperor who defeated and fought the Champa.

1178:
Wanyan Yong (完顔雍): As Emperor Shizong of the Jin dynasty, he tried to promote the culture of the ruling Jurchens and halt sinicization.

Taira no Kiyomori (平 清盛): A powerful Japanese court official and rival of the Minamoto clan.

Minamoto no Yoritomo (源 頼朝): Would become the founder of the Kamakura shogunate with his victory in the Genpei War, defeating the Taira clan who defeated his father.

Ch'oe Ch'unghŏn (崔忠獻): Future military ruler of Goryeo, first to stabilize the military rule of Goryeo. Established a parallel government directly under his control rather than the king.

Kim T'aesŏ (金台瑞): A Korean civil official, his son, Kim Yaksŏn, would be considered a potential successor to military ruler Ch'oe U. He is also considered as the ancestor of the Kim clan from Jeonju, which among his modern-day descendants are the Kim family currently ruling North Korea. Basically this would give you the option to bring the Kim dynasty into power several centuries before 1945.

 

[Zeprion]

I thought Temujin was going to be moved, but it's best to keep him there and make room for another character instead.

 

[CrazyRat]

I expect Japanese Emperors will be recommended characters, because otherwise they are unlanded vassals in an administrative-y government, and selecting them would be absolute pain in the ass.

 

[Zeprion]

I assume for China & Japan playing as the Emperor vs playing as a vassal would be a vastly different experience.

 

[Rubidium]

Also curious how they'll depict cloistered emperors (former emperors who had formally abdicated power, but often had more power than the actual reigning emperor) in Japan.

Someone like Go-Shirakawa, who was absolutely central to the Genpei War despite having theoretically abdicated 20 years before the 1178 start date.

 

[tribnia]

Also curious how they'll depict cloistered emperors (former emperors who had formally abdicated power, but often had more power than the actual reigning emperor) in Japan.

Someone like Go-Shirakawa, who was absolutely central to the Genpei War despite having theoretically abdicated 20 years before the 1178 start date.

They says that tennos could be elected Kampaku and abdicate when elected, that really sounds like cloistered emperors in my opinion. Maybe just with some special localisation.

 

[Videogames]

On the Southeast Asian front, for 1178 Jayavarman VII is an obvious bookmark - he's just a few years away from ascending the throne of the Khmer Empire, though he'll need to fend off a Cham invasion along the way. Jayavarman VII is basically the standout personality of the Khmer empire and the only one for whom we have peronalized portraiture. He was a Mahayana Buddhist coming to the throne of a Hindu kingdom, he had big ideas about how things should be run, and despite being about 50 when he took power he was able to rule for four decades.

Other options aren't quite as filled out. King Jaya Indravarman IV of Champa, who launched the invasion of Angkor, could be a good foil, but I'd say it'd be more daring to do Vidyanandana, a Cham prince who allied with Jayavarman VII to counterattack and overthrow Jaya Indravarman IV and eventually take the throne of Champa himself. He could start out as a landless adventurer perhaps, which would be an interesting twist.

I'd also recommend a bookmark for an early Thai/Tai ruler. This one is a bit tricky because while they were definitely on the scene prior to 1178 and occasionally appear as lords of various cities, the founding generation of sovereign Tai rulers don't take the scene until after Jayavarman VII's death 4 decades after the start date. We also have names for the fathers of that generation, but even they may have been young/not born yet in 1178. But even without a prominent name to use, I do think playing as an upstart Tai ruler rising to power in the shadow of a declining Angkor is a fun setting and would showcase the mandala mechanics.

For the earlier strart dates in Southeast Asia, I think we're on much less solid ground. We don't have many personalities that loom large in the rather limited epigraphic evidence we're limited to. There's Airlangga in Bali and Java, but he unfortunately died in 1049. There are certainly names of kings to fill out the holdings, but I'd be at a loss filling out a bookmark.

 

[Jayavarman]

On the Southeast Asian front, for 1178 Jayavarman VII is an obvious bookmark - he's just a few years away from ascending the throne of the Khmer Empire, though he'll need to fend off a Cham invasion along the way. Jayavarman VII is basically the standout personality of the Khmer empire and the only one for whom we have peronalized portraiture. He was a Mahayana Buddhist coming to the throne of a Hindu kingdom, he had big ideas about how things should be run, and despite being about 50 when he took power he was able to rule for four decades.

Other options aren't quite as filled out. King Jaya Indravarman IV of Champa, who launched the invasion of Angkor, could be a good foil, but I'd say it'd be more daring to do Vidyanandana, a Cham prince who allied with Jayavarman VII to counterattack and overthrow Jaya Indravarman IV and eventually take the throne of Champa himself. He could start out as a landless adventurer perhaps, which would be an interesting twist.

I'd also recommend a bookmark for an early Thai/Tai ruler. This one is a bit tricky because while they were definitely on the scene prior to 1178 and occasionally appear as lords of various cities, the founding generation of sovereign Tai rulers don't take the scene until after Jayavarman VII's death 4 decades after the start date. We also have names for the fathers of that generation, but even they may have been young/not born yet in 1178. But even without a prominent name to use, I do think playing as an upstart Tai ruler rising to power in the shadow of a declining Angkor is a fun setting and would showcase the mandala mechanics.

For the earlier strart dates in Southeast Asia, I think we're on much less solid ground. We don't have many personalities that loom large in the rather limited epigraphic evidence we're limited to. There's Airlangga in Bali and Java, but he unfortunately died in 1049. There are certainly names of kings to fill out the holdings, but I'd be at a loss filling out a bookmark.

Good recommendations.

 

[Zeprion]

Also curious how they'll depict cloistered emperors (former emperors who had formally abdicated power, but often had more power than the actual reigning emperor) in Japan.

Someone like Go-Shirakawa, who was absolutely central to the Genpei War despite having theoretically abdicated 20 years before the 1178 start date.

I still hope they are playable. We have unlanded characters so it shouldn’t be difficult.

And I also hope we keep playing as the characters not as a building or some other form of abstraction.