Has any history been written up for east Asia, and what is the current situation in its development? I don't see anything about it in the official history, and only a brief mention in the FAQ.
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Simply put, we haven't had the human resources to tackle the east. Well, east of the Il-Khanate. The main ideas which were discussed and agreed to time and again were:
China divided into four or five countries, but can be formed as one unit. Events exist to enable this to happen.
One of the starting Chinas, Korea and (if it forms) the full China are the main colonisers, aiming for California and the Incan realms. This has been set up.
Upgrading of the tech levels for much of Asia. Done.
I have also given all the asian countries a slew of leaders.
The main thing as a short-term gap filler was to create an Asia that was much more of a challenge when the Europeans arrive, which colonised North America, and which was more religiously diverse.
China divided into four or five countries, but can be formed as one unit. Events exist to enable this to happen.
One of the starting Chinas, Korea and (if it forms) the full China are the main colonisers, aiming for California and the Incan realms. This has been set up.
Upgrading of the tech levels for much of Asia. Done.
I have also given all the asian countries a slew of leaders.
The main thing as a short-term gap filler was to create an Asia that was much more of a challenge when the Europeans arrive, which colonised North America, and which was more religiously diverse.
I used the columbus cheat to look over the map of China, and there are at least a couple things that can be said from what is set up there.
Firstly, the presence of the Il-Khanate means that any break with real history would have to come after the accession of Khubilai Khan in the east and his defeat of Arigh Boke. Khubilai was the one who sent Hulegu westward in the first place. Because of this, what's labelled as "Mongolia" currently might be better labelled as "Yuan".
Secondly, the nation named "Manchu" should probably be named "Jurchen" or "Jurchid" as Manchu wasn't used to describe the people of that region until the 17th century, and only then by imperial fiat.
Thirdly, Mongolia and the Ulus Chagatai are Orthodox; this is a very nice touch, IMHO. I'm assuming "Orthodox" here represents Nestorian Christianity; the Chagatai Khanate was historically much more traditionalist than the Mongols of the Yuan dynasty, which was originally the Ulus Tolui, which was all under the Khagan. Nestorian influence was very strong in the reigns of Guyuk and Mongke, but very much not during the reign of Khubilai who had Buddhist leanings.
I'm guessing Ming represents what was, in actual history, the Ming dynasty. This makes sense. Tsing (is this Qing or Cing in pinyin?) and Wei are mysterious on the face of it; do they have events/story that's written already? Also, Lanzhou-- historically nations or peoples that invaded China would always create a dynasty and a dynastic title for the "Great Enterprise"; this happened to the Tanguts (Xi Xia), the Jurchen (Jin), the Mongols (Yuan), the Manchu (Qing), and the Khitan (Liao); whatever ethnic or national group this represents should probably have a more definite name and identity.
I'm inquiring and speculating on these topics because I'm enjoying Interregnum a great deal. I also noticed that everywhere I've been looking it has said "contributions welcome", and I happen to have a good deal of time on my hands right now, and have spent a great deal of time studying east asian history in my life and would like to contribute somehow to expanding Interregnum to include campaigns for the eastern countries. To that end, I hope to start a discussion here to flesh what needs to be done and THEN learn how to code up events and do so; this also involves laying out what is already established (like the reign of Khubilai for the existence of the Il-Khanate) so that that can be worked around.
Firstly, the presence of the Il-Khanate means that any break with real history would have to come after the accession of Khubilai Khan in the east and his defeat of Arigh Boke. Khubilai was the one who sent Hulegu westward in the first place. Because of this, what's labelled as "Mongolia" currently might be better labelled as "Yuan".
Secondly, the nation named "Manchu" should probably be named "Jurchen" or "Jurchid" as Manchu wasn't used to describe the people of that region until the 17th century, and only then by imperial fiat.
Thirdly, Mongolia and the Ulus Chagatai are Orthodox; this is a very nice touch, IMHO. I'm assuming "Orthodox" here represents Nestorian Christianity; the Chagatai Khanate was historically much more traditionalist than the Mongols of the Yuan dynasty, which was originally the Ulus Tolui, which was all under the Khagan. Nestorian influence was very strong in the reigns of Guyuk and Mongke, but very much not during the reign of Khubilai who had Buddhist leanings.
I'm guessing Ming represents what was, in actual history, the Ming dynasty. This makes sense. Tsing (is this Qing or Cing in pinyin?) and Wei are mysterious on the face of it; do they have events/story that's written already? Also, Lanzhou-- historically nations or peoples that invaded China would always create a dynasty and a dynastic title for the "Great Enterprise"; this happened to the Tanguts (Xi Xia), the Jurchen (Jin), the Mongols (Yuan), the Manchu (Qing), and the Khitan (Liao); whatever ethnic or national group this represents should probably have a more definite name and identity.
I'm inquiring and speculating on these topics because I'm enjoying Interregnum a great deal. I also noticed that everywhere I've been looking it has said "contributions welcome", and I happen to have a good deal of time on my hands right now, and have spent a great deal of time studying east asian history in my life and would like to contribute somehow to expanding Interregnum to include campaigns for the eastern countries. To that end, I hope to start a discussion here to flesh what needs to be done and THEN learn how to code up events and do so; this also involves laying out what is already established (like the reign of Khubilai for the existence of the Il-Khanate) so that that can be worked around.
siafu said:
I originally had them as Yuan, but then panicked because, really, my knowledge of Chinese/Asian history is so limited, and I returned them to Mongolia to be safe. I'll make them Yuan again.
Interregnum's alternate history begins in roughly 1200. This is the vague starting point for major events to be turned on their heads.
Will do.
Yes, that's the idea. Unlike EU3 we cannot add additional religions and need to fake a few things. So, yes, Orthodox represents the so-called Nestorian Christianity, although, given Interregnum's premise, it could easily here represent a different version of Christianity that may have developed in the East.
Tsing and Wei are ..... made up. Just me giving the remaining two China's a Chinese sounding name. They can be replaced easily. I won't even pretend to defend my lack of scholarship on the east.
Yippee!!!!
We have long waited for someone with a strong knowledge of the east to take on the challenge.
Note that the Champa were well-fleshed out by AhmedAA, and I still have the full event files he began. I never implemented them only because it made so little sense to have one well-written nation in a sea of generics.
You are welcome to rework the east. Please read back through earlier threads and find some of the other ideas that have been discussed, but don't be limited by them.
Matty
The pieces of China atm are Ming, Tsing, Wei, Lanzhou, and Yuan as I can see.
I'm guessing that the drawings for the shields are completely random because the one for tsing is xi1, meaning west (as in Xi'an), and the one for Wei is well, I can't seem to find it in my dictionary. There have been historical historical Wei dynasties/kingdoms in China, but none of them used that character. The character for Ming, btw, is the one on the China shield- the one written in black with a yellow background.
Also, I realized in double-checking that it was not Khubilai, but Mongke (his predecessor) who sent Hulagu to conquer the Middle East. So don't change Mongolia to Yuan just yet.
I'm taking as a baseline requirement that China is divided into at least three countries which are nominally successors to Imperial China, and Mongolia in the north.
Since I've never done something like this before, I intend to be posting my ideas here as I develop them for suggestions and criticism.
I'm guessing that the drawings for the shields are completely random because the one for tsing is xi1, meaning west (as in Xi'an), and the one for Wei is well, I can't seem to find it in my dictionary. There have been historical historical Wei dynasties/kingdoms in China, but none of them used that character. The character for Ming, btw, is the one on the China shield- the one written in black with a yellow background.
Also, I realized in double-checking that it was not Khubilai, but Mongke (his predecessor) who sent Hulagu to conquer the Middle East. So don't change Mongolia to Yuan just yet.
I'm taking as a baseline requirement that China is divided into at least three countries which are nominally successors to Imperial China, and Mongolia in the north.
Since I've never done something like this before, I intend to be posting my ideas here as I develop them for suggestions and criticism.
So, to start with, in actual history Mongke died in 1259 without a designated successor, and his three brothers Hulagu, Khubilai, and Ariq Boke were the natural candidates. Hulagu was off in the west (and in Interregnum it's not clear from the history I've found whether or not he even survived the battle of Baghdad in 1258) so he was not the strong candidate; Qubilai was campaigning in China against the Song and Ariq Boke was ruling over the homelands of Mongolia. Both contenders held khuriltais wherein they were proclaimed Khagan, but Khubilai eventually defeated; there was a battle in particular at Shimultai where both were present.
So, to depart from history, instead of defeating Ariq Boke in at Shimultai (even though in reality this battle wasn't the end for either of them, historically), Khubilai is struck by an arrow in the throat and dies a few days later. As a result, Ariq Boke wins the war and is appointed Khagan. Since not even Khubilai could maintain the cohesion of the Mongol Empire, Ariq Boke doesn't have a chance of pulling that off, and thus the Blue and White Hordes, the Il-Khanate, the Chagataid Khanate, and Mongolia (Toluid or Ariqid Khanate maybe?) become independent.
However, because he lacks the skill and experience of Khubilai and his generals in China, the war with the Song grinds to a halt at the Chang Jiang/Yangzi river; Ariq Boke or his successor concludes a peace with Song in order to stop wasting resources on a war they can't win. The Mongols therefore adopt a hostile attitude towards the Han; Ariq Boke and his faction historically represented a more traditionalist outlook, which would not have included any of the reforms or bureaucratic institutions of Khubilai and so under Ariq Boke the Chinese are mere slaves. As a result, a Han rebellion comes up and breaks the north free. This new state does not run off and join with the Song emperor in the south but instead founds a new dynasty; approximately the same territory as "Ming" has in 6.35.
I'm not quite sure yet who is responsible for this; there are several possibilities like a secret society (which though it sounds weird, was actually a major factor in the establishment of the Ming dynasty), or a Chinese general working for the Mongols (there were many) rebelling.
Since by this point, the Song Dynasty has failed to defend the middle kingdom against the Khitans, the Jurchid, the Tangut, or the Mongols in sucession over the previous 200 years. Add that to the slap in the face it receives from this northern rebellion creating a new dynasty, and the actual Ming rebellion can take place. The Mongols could even lend support without going to war themselves, and the Ming would have the territory that's held by Tsing in 6.35.
This is just a start; so far this would only have four states in China (Toluid Khanate, Mind Dynasty, Song Dynasty, and unnamed other dynasty) rather than five (Ming, Tsing, Wei, Mongolia, and Lanzhou); the Lanzhou territory could get split up btw. the Toluids, Song, and Tibet.
This is a start; I'd like to do China first and then if I still have time I could do Korea, Japan, and the Jurchid, and then SE asia (this one not so likely to happen). Someone else will have to tackle India, as I just don't know enough.
So, to depart from history, instead of defeating Ariq Boke in at Shimultai (even though in reality this battle wasn't the end for either of them, historically), Khubilai is struck by an arrow in the throat and dies a few days later. As a result, Ariq Boke wins the war and is appointed Khagan. Since not even Khubilai could maintain the cohesion of the Mongol Empire, Ariq Boke doesn't have a chance of pulling that off, and thus the Blue and White Hordes, the Il-Khanate, the Chagataid Khanate, and Mongolia (Toluid or Ariqid Khanate maybe?) become independent.
However, because he lacks the skill and experience of Khubilai and his generals in China, the war with the Song grinds to a halt at the Chang Jiang/Yangzi river; Ariq Boke or his successor concludes a peace with Song in order to stop wasting resources on a war they can't win. The Mongols therefore adopt a hostile attitude towards the Han; Ariq Boke and his faction historically represented a more traditionalist outlook, which would not have included any of the reforms or bureaucratic institutions of Khubilai and so under Ariq Boke the Chinese are mere slaves. As a result, a Han rebellion comes up and breaks the north free. This new state does not run off and join with the Song emperor in the south but instead founds a new dynasty; approximately the same territory as "Ming" has in 6.35.
I'm not quite sure yet who is responsible for this; there are several possibilities like a secret society (which though it sounds weird, was actually a major factor in the establishment of the Ming dynasty), or a Chinese general working for the Mongols (there were many) rebelling.
Since by this point, the Song Dynasty has failed to defend the middle kingdom against the Khitans, the Jurchid, the Tangut, or the Mongols in sucession over the previous 200 years. Add that to the slap in the face it receives from this northern rebellion creating a new dynasty, and the actual Ming rebellion can take place. The Mongols could even lend support without going to war themselves, and the Ming would have the territory that's held by Tsing in 6.35.
This is just a start; so far this would only have four states in China (Toluid Khanate, Mind Dynasty, Song Dynasty, and unnamed other dynasty) rather than five (Ming, Tsing, Wei, Mongolia, and Lanzhou); the Lanzhou territory could get split up btw. the Toluids, Song, and Tibet.
This is a start; I'd like to do China first and then if I still have time I could do Korea, Japan, and the Jurchid, and then SE asia (this one not so likely to happen). Someone else will have to tackle India, as I just don't know enough.
I just went and looked at the map again and noticed that Lu Chuan is over there in the west; they could get Lanzhou province (#1558), Guizhou (#1556) can go to Song, and I don't know what to do with Shaanxi (#1563).
So, then there would be four major Chinese contenders plus the Mongols. Instead of having a bunch of ersatz dynasties all the same, I'm hoping to think of ways to model them differently. Also, for each there is the possibility of unifying Tian Xia or giving up on the idea and pursuing independent goals.
Brainstorming continues.
As for the Mongols, Ariq Boke was also very sympathetic to Nestorians (his mother was one), so conversion of Mongolia proper/Ariqid/Toluid Khanate makes plenty of sense. Also, the Chagataids, along with the Golden Horde (actually its predecessors-- the Golden Horde when unified was also actually more often called the Kipchak or Qipchaq Horde) were the main supporters of Ariq Boke historically (vs. the Il-Khanate and Qubilai's domains in China), so their conversion can also make sense.
I think it also makes sense to move the capital of the Mongol north to Hohhot; the city of Tatu/Dadu was built by Khubilai around where Peking/Beijing is today, and Beijing was actually built by the Ming emperor, so the importance of Hebei province should be very diminished. A traditionalist like Ariq Boke would try to make his capital in Karakorum, where Ogodei made his, and would probably spend as littel time as possible actually there, preferring the nomadic lifestyle. So, Hohhot just because it's the closest to where Karakorum was.
So, then there would be four major Chinese contenders plus the Mongols. Instead of having a bunch of ersatz dynasties all the same, I'm hoping to think of ways to model them differently. Also, for each there is the possibility of unifying Tian Xia or giving up on the idea and pursuing independent goals.
Brainstorming continues.
As for the Mongols, Ariq Boke was also very sympathetic to Nestorians (his mother was one), so conversion of Mongolia proper/Ariqid/Toluid Khanate makes plenty of sense. Also, the Chagataids, along with the Golden Horde (actually its predecessors-- the Golden Horde when unified was also actually more often called the Kipchak or Qipchaq Horde) were the main supporters of Ariq Boke historically (vs. the Il-Khanate and Qubilai's domains in China), so their conversion can also make sense.
I think it also makes sense to move the capital of the Mongol north to Hohhot; the city of Tatu/Dadu was built by Khubilai around where Peking/Beijing is today, and Beijing was actually built by the Ming emperor, so the importance of Hebei province should be very diminished. A traditionalist like Ariq Boke would try to make his capital in Karakorum, where Ogodei made his, and would probably spend as littel time as possible actually there, preferring the nomadic lifestyle. So, Hohhot just because it's the closest to where Karakorum was.
Still more
So, a little rethink of the disposition of things in 1419.
Three Han states:
1. Song (宋), which is the remains of the Nan Song, in this alternate history never actually wiped out by the Mongols. They hold Kowloon (657), Guangzhou (658) (capital), Hunan (1566), Guangdong (659), Guangxi (661), Wenshan (1555), and Guizhou (1556). Obviously the emperors of this dynasty are now ahistorical. They also should have a core on Hainan (660), which is held by Dai Viet.
2. Ming (明), which is the Ming rebellion originally led by Zhu Yuanzhang, the Hongwu emperor. They hold Shandgong (650) (capital), Jiangsu (652), Jinan (651), Henan (1564), Hubei (1565), and Shaanxi (1563). The rulers of this dynasty can at least start with the historical Ming emperors, but needn't be confined to them.
3. A third completely fictional dynasty, which for the moment we can call Wei (there were historically four kingdoms/dynasties in China called Wei, so this isn't such a bad or unlikely name). They hold Shanghai (653) (capital), Zhejiang (655), Anhui (654), Fujian (656), Nanchang (1567), and Taiwan (689). I'm not sure where this dynasty comes from, but since it's smaller than the other two and has more coastal/island provinces it should def. be more naval and trade-oriented.
Also, in the southwest is the kingdom of Nanzhao, which historically was conquered by the Mongols in 1253. No Mongols conquering Song, no destruction of Nanzhao. They get Yunnan (1553) (capital), Sichuan Pendi (1557), and Kachin (1545). This one is less intended for players and more just to represent the fragmentation of Chinese authority.
The Mongols get Lanzhou (1558), beefing them up just a bit in response to Song and Ming having one province more each than Ming and Wei do in 6.35.
At the start of the game, Song is in disarray and still somewhat backward, and needs to decide whether it continue trying to reunite Tianxia (more likely) or decide to look to Indochina for expansion and just keep the Ming and the Mongols at bay. This second choice could eventually lead to a conversion to Buddhism, maybe, and closer ties to or territorial gains from Dai Viet, Ayuthaya, Laos, whatever. The first choice would involve trying to conquer Wei and Ming first and then take on the Mongols.
Ming is more land-based and insular than the other two and it has to decide on its relationships with the Mongols to the north and the other Chinese dynasties to the south. I'm not sure what this looks like yet, precisely; the Ming were historically more focussed on farming than trade and production, and was very anti-Mongol. The more likely option would be to choose to subdue the north and then try to conquer the south to unite Tianxia.
Wei, squeezed between larger and more powerful neighbors, is more likely than Song or Ming to simply abandon the pretense of uniting China in favor of overseas interests. Wei is therefore more innovative and naval, but can also choose to pursue the Great Enterprise instead. Either way, Wei would be the first of the three to get an explorer and would probably pursue closer ties to Korea and Nippon; they also would have better relations with the Mongols, being the only one of the three dynasties to have never actually fought against them.
That's it for now.
So, a little rethink of the disposition of things in 1419.
Three Han states:
1. Song (宋), which is the remains of the Nan Song, in this alternate history never actually wiped out by the Mongols. They hold Kowloon (657), Guangzhou (658) (capital), Hunan (1566), Guangdong (659), Guangxi (661), Wenshan (1555), and Guizhou (1556). Obviously the emperors of this dynasty are now ahistorical. They also should have a core on Hainan (660), which is held by Dai Viet.
2. Ming (明), which is the Ming rebellion originally led by Zhu Yuanzhang, the Hongwu emperor. They hold Shandgong (650) (capital), Jiangsu (652), Jinan (651), Henan (1564), Hubei (1565), and Shaanxi (1563). The rulers of this dynasty can at least start with the historical Ming emperors, but needn't be confined to them.
3. A third completely fictional dynasty, which for the moment we can call Wei (there were historically four kingdoms/dynasties in China called Wei, so this isn't such a bad or unlikely name). They hold Shanghai (653) (capital), Zhejiang (655), Anhui (654), Fujian (656), Nanchang (1567), and Taiwan (689). I'm not sure where this dynasty comes from, but since it's smaller than the other two and has more coastal/island provinces it should def. be more naval and trade-oriented.
Also, in the southwest is the kingdom of Nanzhao, which historically was conquered by the Mongols in 1253. No Mongols conquering Song, no destruction of Nanzhao. They get Yunnan (1553) (capital), Sichuan Pendi (1557), and Kachin (1545). This one is less intended for players and more just to represent the fragmentation of Chinese authority.
The Mongols get Lanzhou (1558), beefing them up just a bit in response to Song and Ming having one province more each than Ming and Wei do in 6.35.
At the start of the game, Song is in disarray and still somewhat backward, and needs to decide whether it continue trying to reunite Tianxia (more likely) or decide to look to Indochina for expansion and just keep the Ming and the Mongols at bay. This second choice could eventually lead to a conversion to Buddhism, maybe, and closer ties to or territorial gains from Dai Viet, Ayuthaya, Laos, whatever. The first choice would involve trying to conquer Wei and Ming first and then take on the Mongols.
Ming is more land-based and insular than the other two and it has to decide on its relationships with the Mongols to the north and the other Chinese dynasties to the south. I'm not sure what this looks like yet, precisely; the Ming were historically more focussed on farming than trade and production, and was very anti-Mongol. The more likely option would be to choose to subdue the north and then try to conquer the south to unite Tianxia.
Wei, squeezed between larger and more powerful neighbors, is more likely than Song or Ming to simply abandon the pretense of uniting China in favor of overseas interests. Wei is therefore more innovative and naval, but can also choose to pursue the Great Enterprise instead. Either way, Wei would be the first of the three to get an explorer and would probably pursue closer ties to Korea and Nippon; they also would have better relations with the Mongols, being the only one of the three dynasties to have never actually fought against them.
That's it for now.
That's a damned fine start. I am happy to implement your redesign and likely you need me to do this for you, as you are new to the game. However, if you want to give it a try, I am happy to cede the task to you.
I am working on the Final Beta at the moment, which from my end means the Hussites and a bunch of old loose ends. I am awaiting the Jizya material from Dairpo and mikl's material for the Alkternative Reformation.
Then the Final Beta comes out and we playtest for a little while. Then I release 1.0
After that, we can make changes to Asia, so you have some time to work on your ideas and make monarch lists etc.
I am working on the Final Beta at the moment, which from my end means the Hussites and a bunch of old loose ends. I am awaiting the Jizya material from Dairpo and mikl's material for the Alkternative Reformation.
Then the Final Beta comes out and we playtest for a little while. Then I release 1.0
After that, we can make changes to Asia, so you have some time to work on your ideas and make monarch lists etc.
So, how about those files for Champa?
Also, I've been playing around with the scenario setup but I can't seem to edit country.csv without getting an error warning. How does one do this?
Also, I've been playing around with the scenario setup but I can't seem to edit country.csv without getting an error warning. How does one do this?
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For the Champa material, it's all in the threads, probably under a thread titled Ahmed's ideas or something. I have a copy on my other computer, but it is in storage after our recent move.
The country.csv is one of the easiest to edit, so I am thinking that you might be making the mistake of editing it in csv mode. You need to open it in notepad (or similar). With all of these types of files it is critical that you don't remove any semi-colons add spaces or anything like that.
Here is a link you need to know about, to the main EU2 editing guide:
Havard's EU2 Editing
siafu said:
For the Champa material, it's all in the threads, probably under a thread titled Ahmed's ideas or something. I have a copy on my other computer, but it is in storage after our recent move.
The country.csv is one of the easiest to edit, so I am thinking that you might be making the mistake of editing it in csv mode. You need to open it in notepad (or similar). With all of these types of files it is critical that you don't remove any semi-colons add spaces or anything like that.
Here is a link you need to know about, to the main EU2 editing guide:
Havard's EU2 Editing
So, about monarchs.
The Chinese emperors all had many names. They are known in history by their temple names; for the Song Dynasty, all temple names are "something Zong", where zong means "ancestor", so they're all "Tranquil Ancestor" or something like that. The founder was "something Zu", for "forefather". Temple names were only given after death, but through the historical Song dynasty, temple names were the preferred way of referring to past emperors.
Then there's the era name; this one was used before death, and was mostly used to refer to that emperor's reign. There are also frequently more than one in the reign of one emperor. However, some emperors are exclusively referred to by their era names, e.g. "The Hongwu Emperor", and the Ming dynasty used them in place of temple names.
There's also a posthumous name, which was usually extremely long. A few famous emperors have shortened posthumous names by which they are exclusively referred, but only a few. An example of how long the long ones are, this is the posthumous name for the Hongwu Emperor: 開天行道肇紀立極大聖至神仁文義武俊德成功高皇帝 : "Emperor Kaitian Xingdao Zhaoji Liji Dasheng Zhishen Renwen Yiwu Junde Chenggong Gao". Not gonna work.
Lastly, they all had family names, which are pretty much what we think of as their "real" names, but these were never, ever used outside of the Emperor's family and only .before. he became emperor.
Any suggestions on how to handle this? The two most appropriate options, historically, would lead to some rather boring lists of names(Either a long list of "Blah Zong" or a long list of "Blah Emperor"), one is completely unworkable, and the last though easily done and less boring is completely against the actual traditions.
The Chinese emperors all had many names. They are known in history by their temple names; for the Song Dynasty, all temple names are "something Zong", where zong means "ancestor", so they're all "Tranquil Ancestor" or something like that. The founder was "something Zu", for "forefather". Temple names were only given after death, but through the historical Song dynasty, temple names were the preferred way of referring to past emperors.
Then there's the era name; this one was used before death, and was mostly used to refer to that emperor's reign. There are also frequently more than one in the reign of one emperor. However, some emperors are exclusively referred to by their era names, e.g. "The Hongwu Emperor", and the Ming dynasty used them in place of temple names.
There's also a posthumous name, which was usually extremely long. A few famous emperors have shortened posthumous names by which they are exclusively referred, but only a few. An example of how long the long ones are, this is the posthumous name for the Hongwu Emperor: 開天行道肇紀立極大聖至神仁文義武俊德成功高皇帝 : "Emperor Kaitian Xingdao Zhaoji Liji Dasheng Zhishen Renwen Yiwu Junde Chenggong Gao". Not gonna work.
Lastly, they all had family names, which are pretty much what we think of as their "real" names, but these were never, ever used outside of the Emperor's family and only .before. he became emperor.
Any suggestions on how to handle this? The two most appropriate options, historically, would lead to some rather boring lists of names(Either a long list of "Blah Zong" or a long list of "Blah Emperor"), one is completely unworkable, and the last though easily done and less boring is completely against the actual traditions.
While this is actually really interesting, I don't think we need to worry about offending pretend Chinese emperors.
My suggestion is that you don't use ANY name. How about they are all simply referred to as Most Serene Emperor or somesuch. Then, if you have an event that refers to a specific emperor, you can use something more personal to identify him.
My suggestion is that you don't use ANY name. How about they are all simply referred to as Most Serene Emperor or somesuch. Then, if you have an event that refers to a specific emperor, you can use something more personal to identify him.
When I try to open the Interregnum scenario with the Scenario Editor, I get an error. Is this just me, or is this Interregnum?
In particular, it says:
ERROR : (ScenarioInfo : Unexpected field)'option = {'Line = 240 file =
followed by the path of the .eug file.
In particular, it says:
ERROR : (ScenarioInfo : Unexpected field)'option = {'Line = 240 file =
followed by the path of the .eug file.
Here's another one; where are the country names stored? The entries in country.csv don't look like they do in Havard's guide.
siafu said:
All of the text is stored in two places. The main one is in text.csv, which is in the config folder. Here you will find a lot of stuff, most of which we never touch. You will find the names of countries. Use Find and enter the tag in capitals and select Match Case to get to them a little more quickly. Never adjust the value on the left, this is always the programs official/structural name. Instead, change the value/name/title to the right of it.
For example, I altered the following names in the past:
ABB;Blue Horde;;;;;;;;;;1342
ALE;Adal;;;;;;;;;;1342
ALM;Almujadid Empire;;;;;;;;;;1342
However, please don't adjust any of these core files. Better that you send me the changes you want to make, as I am always adjusting these files and the one in 6.35revised is not the same as the one in the Final Beta I am working on.
The only other place you can do text in is via events, where the event name and history can be added to the event itself, or into the text.csv It's more fuss to add it to the text.csv, but it allows for translation, and it is required for more lengthy descriptions.
siafu said:
I have never used the Scenario Editor. I just edit the scenario file. Send me the changes you will want to have included once you have finalised details.
Well, in that case:
What is now Wei should be Song, and own and control #1556 in addition to what it has. Also has shields on 660, 656, 1567, 654, 655, and 653, in addition to the provinces it controls, and get rid of the others. Color should be DarkRed.
What is now Ming will stay Ming and gain #1563, with shields on 649, 1558, and 653 in addition to its controlled provinces (and no others). This one should use the shield and sprites for China in vanilla EU2, and should be yellow (same as Il-Khanate; not that hideous color it is now
)What is now Tsing becomes Wei with the provinces Tsing currently has. Also a core on 657 and 658.
What is now Mongolia needs a new name. Either Toluid Khanate or Ariqid Khanate, and gains 1558, but it's not a core province. Does not have any non-controlled provinces as national provinces.
That's a start. I was hoping to edit the core files locally just so that I could see how it looked for myself and tweak as I go along, and then pass on the changes rather than entire files. Whatever works best for you, though, I can do.
I urge you to still edit your own copy for the purposes of testing things and finding what is best.
I will make the changes you have suggested for the Final Beta. Due out when mikl and Dairpo get their acts together ...
I will make the changes you have suggested for the Final Beta. Due out when mikl and Dairpo get their acts together ...