Asia

[MattyG]

I think what techgroup the chinese states are part of should depend on how they act, if a large unifed chinese state comes about they should possibly move down a techgroup, depending on some sort of event scheme, otherwise countries like korea that try and colonise or even go merchantalistic should possibly get a boost in the latter game

From a historical point of view the chinese should start ahead of others but be falling behind by the 1500s, so it might be a good idea for them to start with higher tech (maybe land 4?) but be in a lower techgroup then surrounding countries, of course this isn't all historical so...

Starting anyone on land 4 equates with WC. It is a huge advantage. Noone would be able to stand in your way.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

hmm.... what if you gave them lower tech so that they don't go up quickly, at land 4 there aren't many bonuses (compared to 5 or 9) and don't forget the other states would be 4( or 3, 4 was just a random number i put out) also their tech develepment would be further slowed by the ahead of time penalty

 

[MattyG]

Just give them level 2, or place their sliders such that they have a strong advantage (high Land, Quality and/or Offensive) or give them a reasonable leader.

Just for fun, change one of the Chinas (or any nation) to Land 4 at the start and see what you can do. It's like blitzkrieg.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

It's that big an advantage? Well I won't second guess you on it, though I've found that it only really kicks in around 5 and 9 (for obvious reasons, assaults, and increased crt)

 

[siafu]

Cities

Given our change in history, some of the cities in the Chinese provinces need to be renamed.

Yunnan (1553), the city should be "Dali" (capital of Nanzhao)
Lanzhou (1558), the city should be "Jincheng" (was named "Lanzhou in 17th century)
Guizhou (1556), city should be "Guizhou" (Guiyang was founded by Yuan, and Guilin was called Guizhou until 20th century)
Zhejiang (655), city should be "Lin'an" (Hangzhou was renamed later.)*
Henan (1564), city should be "Luoyang" **
Jiangsu (652), city should be "Suzhou"
Shandong (65), city should be "Zibo" (Qingdao wasn't even a city until 19th century)


*Historically, Hangzhou was the largest city in the world in the 13th and early 14th centuries, but this province has a rather low population-- should be increased at least a bit.

** This one was just silly; this province is possibly home to more historically important sites than any other and multiple capitals of dynasties (Luoyang, Kaifeng) and they chose Zhengzhou. Go figure. BTW, this province should also be the capital of the Ming dynasty.

EDIT: A couple more:

Hebei (649), should be "Zhongdu" -- "Khanbaliq" is the Mongol name for Dadu, which was built by Khubilai for his Yuan capital.
Hohhot (1561) -- this one is a bit iffy, but I was thinking we could make the city "Karakorum", even though it's not really where Karakorum was. The actual location is hidden away in Terra Incognita, though, so what do you do?

 

[siafu]

Cultures

How hard or feasible is it to add more cultures to the game? I'm thinking specifically of Tangut and Uighur in western/northwestern China. Historically, the Mongols identified these groups as foreigners, and had a difficult time at least in controlling both at various periods. Is this too tall an order?

 

[Rhodz]

It's not hugely difficult adding cultures.

I will say that I don't believe the Ming should be the innovators that bring the "asian renaissance" to Korea. Korea itself was particularly advanced in technology and the arts quite early on, and the Korea that I'd like to create would follow that example. What might be interesting is to have Ming and Korea as two different nuclei for two different schools of innovativeness, and model their effects on other asian nations. What do you think?

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Cultures are very easy to add except for one thing and that's that the number of culture tags is hard coded, So don't go adding new tags unless it's necessary, and on a side note, MattyG for the sake of practicality shouldn't slavonic and romanian be merged, I mean there's only 2 romanian provinces, and everyone with romanian culture also has slavonic, I think it's a waste of a tag

 

[siafu]

I will say that I don't believe the Ming should be the innovators that bring the "asian renaissance" to Korea. Korea itself was particularly advanced in technology and the arts quite early on, and the Korea that I'd like to create would follow that example. What might be interesting is to have Ming and Korea as two different nuclei for two different schools of innovativeness, and model their effects on other asian nations. What do you think?

It's not the Ming, it's the Wei. The Ming, with the very notable exception of the Yongle Emperor, were not terribly innovative. Since there won't be any Yongle, the Ming won't ever really be "innovative", at least not by the means of events. ;p

As for Korea, I would expect that Wei and Korea could be very close diplomatically, anyway, at least in the early game. After 100 years or so, the Ming, the Jurchen, and Korea would have swallowed up the Toluids in all likelihood bringing Ming and Korea into conflict over territory.

What sort of two different models are you thinking of? That is, how would they be different; what kind of differences can there be, in game terms?

 

[siafu]

Cultures are very easy to add except for one thing and that's that the number of culture tags is hard coded, So don't go adding new tags unless it's necessary,

Well, it was only two. The other possibility is to make a separate "Wu" culture in Wei, or one that can emerge, to represent the already extant linguistic differences of the region and the cultural divergence that occurs over the course of the scenario.

 

[Rhodz]

It's not the Ming, it's the Wei. The Ming, with the very notable exception of the Yongle Emperor, were not terribly innovative. Since there won't be any Yongle, the Ming won't ever really be "innovative", at least not by the means of events. ;p

As for Korea, I would expect that Wei and Korea could be very close diplomatically, anyway, at least in the early game. After 100 years or so, the Ming, the Jurchen, and Korea would have swallowed up the Toluids in all likelihood bringing Ming and Korea into conflict over territory.

What sort of two different models are you thinking of? That is, how would they be different; what kind of differences can there be, in game terms?

Not entirely sure. Perhaps one could be driven by the nobles, meaning high aristocracy, and one could be driven by the merchants? In colonisation, perhaps the modus operandi for one is to peacefully expand and negotiate with natives while the others is to take the land by force and exterminate natives? Just something to think about.

 

[siafu]

Hiatus

Apparently, I'm in need of a new motherboard, video card, power supply, and CPU, so my access is going to be rather curtailed for awhile. I think it would be safe to consider China on the backburner, at least for the next week.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Sad to hear, still how did that happen (water, magnets?)

Well, it was only two. The other possibility is to make a separate "Wu" culture in Wei, or one that can emerge, to represent the already extant linguistic differences of the region and the cultural divergence that occurs over the course of the scenario.

Just thought I'd caution, from what I've read of the agceep they had a lot of trouble keeping people from going tag crazy, I don't believe interregnum has trouble with tags, but I'd just keep in mind that there's a limited number, so don't have 30 cultures in china