Att/Def/Mov Modifier Bug

[RaistlinX]

Forgive me if this has been reported, is a known issue or is by design.

Some games seem to include the following modifiers (I am just including the values that are added and also just including INF values)

infantry = {
forest_attack = -10
urban_attack = -15
river_attack = -15
shore_attack = -15
paradrop_attack = -15
fort_attack = 5
blizzard_defense = 5
snow_defense = 5
frozen_defense = 5
rain_defense = 5
storm_defense = 5
muddy_defense = 5
night_defense = 5
desert_defense = 5
urban_defense = 10
desert_move = -15
urban_move = -33
}

Again, these are just the extra values for INF only. I have tried to duplicate this but can not, even following every step. They were first noticed in a save file from a Normal/Coward setting I was testing around May '36. I cannot duplicate these values. Game was 1.06 and Germany was selected in a '36 scenario.

Anyone know if this random addition is by design?

 

[unmerged(13008)]

Uhm,

what exactly do you assume to be buggy, about it?

 

[RaistlinX]

Uhm,

That sometimes the values are there and sometimes they aren't (given that game settings and upgrades are exactly the same). You will notice I said forgive me if this is by design (in which case maybe someone can explain why they are there sometimes and sometimes not)

 

[jdrou]

Exactly where did you look? Do you have a savegame where they are missing? Every country should have a 'modifiers' section with subsection for each unit type. Even if all modifiers for infantry were zero I believe you would still see something like:

     modifiers = {
          infantry = { }
          cavalry = {
               forest_attack = -10

etc.

 

[RaistlinX]

Exactly where did you look? Do you have a savegame where they are missing? Every country should have a 'modifiers' section with subsection for each unit type. Even if all modifiers for infantry were zero I believe you would still see something like:

     modifiers = {
          infantry = { }
          cavalry = {
               forest_attack = -10

etc.

I do have a save game file where they aren't there, in fact the extra tags usually aren't there. It seems to be a rare thing when they are there. Here is what I would call a 'typical' on my machine at least modifiers section from a save game (just showing the infantry section):

    modifiers = { 
        infantry = { 
            desert_attack = 25 
            mountain_attack = -40 
            hill_attack = -10 
            jungle_attack = -15 
            swamp_attack = -15 
            fort_attack = 5 
            desert_defense = 25 
            mountain_defense = 15 
            hill_defense = 5 
            forest_defense = 10 
            jungle_defense = 30 
            swamp_defense = 10 
            blizzard_move = -70 
            snow_move = -35 
            frozen_move = -25 
            rain_move = -10 
            storm_move = -25 
            muddy_move = -20 
            night_move = -15 
            mountain_move = -33 
            hill_move = -15 
            forest_move = -15 
            jungle_move = -33 
            swamp_move = -33 
            }

the 'extra' tags I posted previously are sometimes added into the section just posted. Again, these discrepancies were taken from the same time point in two different games (ie exact same research, production, etc). That is why i wonder why the discrepancy. Specifically the pretty much consistent missing 'urban' tags. I notice the 'extra' tags are consistantly present in the save games from CORE games, although with different values and a different ordering. My question is why, if I start two games with exactly the same options and research the exact same things (etc) do I have different tags (not values)?

To be clear, all the unit type tags are there, but the various modifier tags don't seem to be consistent, and it is not a matter of having researched different techs since when I tested this I did the exact same things.

 

[jdrou]

Okay, so just certain modifiers sometimes aren't there? Any modifier which is zero or not applicable to that unit type won't be listed so that's probably what's happening. If you're looking at both vanilla and C.O.R.E. games they will have no relation to each other since C.O.R.E. has different techs and initializes modifiers for some countries to values different from the defaults in vanilla HoI.

 

[RaistlinX]

I don't think you are reading my posts right so let me put it this way. First, I am not comparing CORE and vanilla directly. I am well aware different MODS tweak values.

This is what is happening: I start a 1.06, Normal/Coward, '36, Germany game and do A B and C and save. I check the save file and the 'extra values' are there. I go back start a second game with exactly the same options, do A B and C again and save. Check the save file and the 'extra values' are NOT there.

Now do you see what I am saying? I might do some more tests tonight and see if I can get it to happen again, but I know I am not researching anything differently for the game to one time add the extra modifiers and another time to not.

 

[jdrou]

If you get two saves with identical tech lists and different modifiers you should probably send them to Vulture with a description of what you did to get to that point (or just post the description here).

 

[RaistlinX]

Ok, I'll send them to him. The problem is I have to duplicate it again ( I deleted the save files)... If in fact it is some bug who can say the frequency that it occurs Also, i should probably uninstall (CORE as well) and install fresh.

 

[RaistlinX]

Ok I now have more info (at least what I did and didn't do).

First off, I loaded a new game of 1.06 GER Normal/Coward '36 scenario.

I was plannign on doing some tests trying to figure out what affects the little bar under the troops so I let the game run to Feb 22, 69 as I was moving all my troops to Berlin (and air to a different province)to bring them all together.

*NO* changes were made to research, production or world trade ever. I simply moved my troops around (and brought the troops in Konesburg to full strength as they has slipped a little due to no supplies for a day or two i assume.

On first save (Feb 22 '36), there are no 'extra values' as mentioned above, also there is no experience calculated for the generals. I went to the save file and manualy changed values for moral, and organization for different troops, saved, went back to the game (which was never actually ended, program or that specific game) and reloaded the save file. I made some changed to the troops in-game (split up the army, combined, split up etc as I was watching the sliders) then saved again. Note that no leaders where actually assigned by me at this time.

This time the experience for the leaders had been calculated but still no extra values. I repeated the above process a few more times making other observations and suddenly noticed the latest save file was a few 100K larger. When I opened it up, viola, the 'extra values' are now there.

I have the save files, showing same date and tech values if someone wants see them (Vulture?) although they are 7+ Mb of course, so you might just want a part of it I did confirm that no changes to techs had been made by me. I also should note that in between these two files, I had assigned a leader to my army (in game). Also for some reason the 'missiontype' tag for the contries has changed from 0 to -2

Finally I should note that these 'extra tags' are there for each contry now, not just Germany.

All this may be working as designed but it seems wierd to me, when the date has not changed, so therefore no actual hidden event could have been fired.

 

[jdrou]

If you send save games you should always compress them first (zip, rar, etc.). They should zip small enough that even a hotmail account (1 MB max) can take them. Sounds like it may not be a problem although it is strange. It may be that, unless you actually get in combat, the game doesn't initialize all the variables immediately. That would also explain the missing leader experience.

 

[RaistlinX]

If you send save games you should always compress them first (zip, rar, etc.). They should zip small enough that even a hotmail account (1 MB max) can take them. Sounds like it may not be a problem although it is strange. It may be that, unless you actually get in combat, the game doesn't initialize all the variables immediately. That would also explain the missing leader experience.

Yeah that would be an explaination. Strange though. Well again, if someone wants to see the files let me know.

 

[RaistlinX]

It may be that, unless you actually get in combat, the game doesn't initialize all the variables immediately. That would also explain the missing leader experience.

Nope. I just annexed the Cheks and saved the game. The missing modifiers aren't there... one difference this time though, I am playing Normal/Normal, so maybe the different agressive setting has something to do with it (although the missing modifiers would make it actually harder on a less agressive setting)