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Yeah sure that would be great. I have core v0.85 so I'll pop in on to V-Net on Wednesday.
 
husty said:
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Probably. But regardless, we are mid game, so for any new players just remember picking up players mid games in CORE has problems, so any additions to the group need to wait til our current game ends.

I'm also free tonight, but Major did say he'd be busy, so doubt we can get things up and running.
 
The war in the East against the USSR can only be described in one discription "boring". It was the same old Soviet tactic of having nearly there entire army behind the river line, basically leaving 1500km of western Russia defenceless. German forces did break through over the river line only to be easily countered by the Soviets, even on open ground the panzers suffer large casualities, the panzers seem to be fighting better when crossing rivers for some strange reason this game.

Since this style of warfare is pointless for Germany, Hitler has decided to pull back the armies and let the Soviets come to him, two can play at this type of game. Germany will now play a defensive game, and unless the USSR wants to attack Germany they will be sitting there for along time very bored this game. The only success as been in the air with more then half of the USSR 24 fighters squadrons destroyed inthe firsts few months of the war.

Gibralter was succesfully tacken sealing the Meditereanen for the Axis. Malta was successfuly tacken by Italian troops. There seems to be large battles being faught between Italy and CW forces in and around eithiopia. These battles look very interesting.

This session saw renewed sinkings of Uk convoys, Uk must be getting low on supplies in some of its fronts to risk the atlantic. German naval forces dominate the atlantic with the Royal navy to scared to show its face. There seemed to be a falling out between the US and UK but German inteligence only picked up on Uk intercepts, hmm maybe we can exploit this.

P.S this game was going looking to very a very fun one for me. But the Russian campaign as runined that with once again the riverline crap, leaving all of western russia defenceless. This is not a dig at an indivdual player, but rather this continued use of a strategy that makes fighting the Russian front pointless. The best games that were fun and hundreds of battles all along the front, were when the russian player defended the whole country. They still won in the end but it was a great game. Considering im trying to play a balanced game focusing on both the eastern and western fronts, i picked the less disent option to help out the USSR so we could have a fun game. Well not again the USSR can get stuffed im picking the +20 dissent everytime from now on. So i will be playing defensive now and focusing on the western front, so unless the USSR wants to attack me they can sit there the whole game and watch the war go by on very slow speed while the UK, Italy, Japs and USA have all the fun as this is the only way to keep game going for a long time. As continued attacks by germany will only lead to its defeat with in a few months.
 
Mike
I dont understand where you are coming from. You breach the river and had me on toast than you sent your panzers forward with low org to try and make further breakthrus but they were beaten back cause they had low org. Within a month you were one province away from Moscow and I was about to retreat but you beat me to it. I would have rested my panzers and you would have had no trouble pushing me away. I am currently upgrading my poor basic tanks right now all 30 divisions and instead of try to exploit this you retreat to the polish border. You beat my infantry easy accorss rivers because they are only vanilla but when I advance over the river they are all anti tank thats why your tanks dont do so well. Now you have a strong fleet, massive airpower you cant expect to have a super army for the war on Russia if all you can do is attack 2 provinces at the same time. I never player germany but I would have built a more vanilla type army and attacked in 4 or 5 places at the same time. 2 armour probes with 48 divsions of poor quality armour is just not going to cut it in Russia. I sacrificed all other techs for armour and infantry you obviously have invested heavy in air and naval so when you cant push forward dont blame me for using the rivers as defensive lines.
The game seems boring to you because I am not the easybeat anymore like I have been in many other games. Lets see how boring it is when Russian T-34 are rolling into berlin while you make excuses for your heavy investment in tech. BTW with so many Ships ,planes and tanks you must have to put them on rotation to move because the fuel bill must be enormous.
Lets just try and do the best we can and if I bore you on the Russian front go do attacks somewhere else you must have plenty in other areas of the globe to take care of.
I am thinking of building up my army to go an take on the Italians seeing the Krauts dont have the stomach for a fight.
Thats all from Stalin's propaganda machine.
BTW I got a liking to play Germany now :)
And another thing with this manpower....Brigaded tanks and infantry require a lot more manpower to build and replace so all this talk about running out of manpower is crap when it is self inflicted. Why not build lots more vanilla type units?
 
Well Major the only units which had low org where some mech units, most of the amour was at 75% org and strength. As germany you cannot wait until your forces are at full strength to continue to your attack, just like IRL. This is not a personal dig at you major like i said in my post, it is a constant problem with the USSR an in my opinion one of the reasons they are so hard to beat. The reason we have so many games end early is exactly because of this reason, hence why omni and joel did a truce last game. I will not do any truce, if the game ends it ends.

As for building ships, well i get most tech for free via envents just have to do a few cheap naval docs. Ships are cheap in manpower and guard the western front, stopping masses of US power from attacking the west, there by giving me more forces for Russia, and as such Germany still has over 1000 manpower in this game. Air tech well most was done befor war and for germany its not hard to reach improved air.

As Germany i have tried to play a balanced game. Built up a large military not a super tech one, and then slowly upgraded as tech becomes avaible. My aircraft started of as basics an upgraded as improved were teched, same for tanks, i built basics and upgraded as i went along. I have not done super techs as that is a problem we all complain about, super techs to early in the game.

So far, ive not invaded the UK, didnt take out spain got them allied enventualy and then took gibralter only recently, havnt given italy a thing, gave you the full pact, didnt do the huge dissent for you as thought you were goging to defend all of russia like you said (backstabber), and then you russia plays the BS river line defence again. The only Uk province i take is Bermuda, and all hell breaks lose, US gets 500 manpower, which was BS, it should have been a fraction of that if anything.

Im glad Core 0.9 has fixed this US WE. US WE wont get to 100 until July 1942, even with a very agressive axis not until early 42. Which is far more realistic as the US was not prepared to enter the war under any circumstances unless directly attacked. Hell even the German U-boats sinking a number of US cruisers and destroyers with hundreds of US service men lost, still they would not DOW on Germany. U-boats were operating 100-300 miles of the US coast sinking convoys befor the US was in the war and they still would not DOW. Yet Germany take bermuda and US gets 500,000 men, Uk gets heaps of supplies and resources from US ontop of lend lease. Well next game all you allie players are going axis, and me, munster and joel will go allies and no changing rules now, like we have already this game a number of times.

Im not asking for any dissent, manpower, resources supplies units nothing. All i ask is that the USSR defend its nation properly. Western Russia was the most productive land in all the USSR, they fought and sacrificed millions of soldiers to keep it and slow the germans down. If this is not fixed, i will not be playing another game, even if im the UK or US. I dont want to see any other player to go through the same crap. Ive said my pieace.
 
Those who live by the sword.....

Thats a bit rich mike :rolleyes:

You and Munster hit the Brits with the early 39 offensive CRAP! so i couldn,t defend the Med. (what about a desert war as IRL?) and u complain about Majors defensive tactics not being as IRL. You cant have it both ways.

The war seems balanced now but the entry of the Japs should blow everything apart.

Thankfully things have been patched up between the administrations of the UK and USA. Churchill has apologised to FDR for the rather unkind remarks made and promised to limit his vodka intake.


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Mike
You have conquered every country in Europe, thew Italians have taken all the med and are in the process of taking the rest of Africa. France was defeated by end of october 1939. I had the full extra 20 dissent apart from the 5 or 6 that Joel edited out. It appears your biggest complaint is that if you fight the Russians you wont have enough manpower. Well I have no problems with you receiving a 2000 extra manpower so you will at least put up a decent fight in Russia instead of making excuses. And the Bermuda thing was a of big enough interest for the designers to maybe incorprate an intervention event(not manpower) so I think you got away lightly there. When you consider I started with an extra 20 dissent(reduced to about 15%) you decided to use this extra advantage to invest in a heap of aircraft carriers,submarines and god knows how man other ships and transports. Considerign the game is won or lost in Russia I am a little bemused to why you decided to invest to have this naval advantage when you best chance is to strike early on the soviets. I never started forts till 1939 and at most have level 2 accross the rivers. And out of the 2 off us I am the only one who stays in a province longer enough for the other side to have a go at them. Unlike yourself who takes a province than retreats away. I mean if you were fairdinkum about conquering Russia you would at least try and hold what you gain. I dont have a tank on the map and your running to Poland. You have only had one real go at the Russians and nearly broke them early. I have invested heavily in a lot of anti aircraft brigades because I know your liking for airpower so I know your aircraft have been taking more than the normal amount of damage. Now You made breakthrus accoss the river but instead of consolidate you tried to go another province instead of reinforcing the bridgehead. Thats not my fault. I picked the best defensive line available so you cannot surround my divisions. I had no idea what would happen when they retreat and when i was playtesting a game I found they could go anywhere and I was afraid you would diliberately leave a province empty so my units would retreat into it and you could surround and destroy them. If you look at the frontline on the Polish border only a complete dummy would try and defend there.
Now so we can get a decent fight out of everyone lets not make manpower an issue anymore. Lets just give the brits,yanks,germans and anyone else who needs manpower. You are restricted to what you can build anyway cause you still have to have fuel for your tanks and everyone has IC restrictions as well as resource concerns. Lets just elimanate manpower as an issue for not attacking or doing stuff. I know the UK is lucky to have 50MP hardly enough to replace losses on the offensive. What is the big deal with manpower? If yo uask me its a matater when you get the manpower not how much.......well thats my oponion. And Mike I am not having a go at you but you must admit you are 60-70 divisions short as well as significant infantry tech for the war on Russia. Do you agree....would manpower solve your problem? The Germans seem to end up the same every game...anyone else with ideas.
 
Sorry guys I missed joining in playing with you. The wife was ill. Let me know when you are next playing and I will definately join in then.
 
Ah the debate is certainly lively :)

Keeping things simple, I think regardless of the Russian defense, we have a good game on our hands. Yes, the Soviet player has done the tried and tested river defense, and yes, the german player has done the tried and tested 'early attack' and 'uber balkans/scandanvian conquest' strategies.

But then we have this in almost every game. Germany takes out France & co early because it needs the time and resources to face off against the Soviets, who are generally very very strong. The 20 dissent we added cut into the Soviet tech builds, which has manifested itself in inferior (than normal) soviet tanks, combined with poor air techs. I think Major has done well to build up such a big army of infantry, but agree that by and large, we are not seeing pro-longed wars in the east.

And I think this is larger than just a river line defense. Looking back on all the games I've played, I can think of 2 games that involved a good hard fight in Russia. Once against horse, and once against mike. In the first I was still learning my trade as the russians, and in the second I recall a more historical path, albeit one that ended more quickly with German manpower issues.

I hoped 20 dissent would change this, and maybe its not sufficient. The again, maybe Major has just played very well. It's hard to tell, but strategies can be used for and against players. And I really think if any player has the ability to think they've been done over, it's probably Nolan, who has endured a legitimate, but early Italian entry; swift losses in France, the loss of Suez, East Africa, Malta, Gibralter, and the Atlantic, and will soon be faced with utter destruction in the Pacific - or so I hope ;)

All in all, we just need to keep cool when discussing things - excluding Churchills drunken rantings at Roosevelt that is :D. I for example am dissapointed at the US deploying over 50% of its forces against Japan when it recieved manpower increases to allegedly react against Germany. I also am yet to see any large fleets at Pearl harbour. But if these are not specified as rules, then we should either change the rules, or accept them. (Ok, or in my case bitch and moan, but still accept them) :)

Overall, if the Axis can play the game their way, following the rules but playing to maximum advantage in ways that would not have been possible in real life, then the Allies/Comintern should do the same. Yes, the Soviets should defend Byelorussia and eastern Poland, but then yes, the germans shouldn't annex Hungary, or Sweden, or puppet Romania.
 
Bug?

I dont know if this is a glitch or not but

Many units i have tried moving in africa using the strategic move will only redeploy back on the map in UK Islands?

Also I think we should change the word RULES and use the word GUIDELINES.
Its no good saying that an action breakes the rules when it is a realistic reaction to something happening in the game like the Burmuda crisis (which CORE developers seem to think would cause some kind of a major reaction by the USA)

If it expected that the SU should defend poland the baltics and western russia early in the game then will the Germans be forbidden from retreating when in danger of being surrounded as IRL? Will we stop most of the Germans units in France from reacting to a D-Day landing keeping them in place for a month after D-Day as IRL. Should the british stack singapore with 100,000 just to surrender to the Jap?

The Major being unfamilier with the SU I think hes entitled to play defensivly at start of war. Alot of the land in the western SU isn,t even Russian anyway.




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It should be ok this game but both sides will run into resource problems more so the Allies when japan rips thru the Asia area....Big armies and big economies require lots of fuel and resources. I am going
to advance against Mike and beat my head for a while because i can afford the losses. One thing we can look at next game is Core has a lot of industrial grades built in especially for the Russians and Americans etc..Maybe we could look at restricting upgrades of industry..only an idea off on another topic. I wish Hitler would issue the no retreat order to the Eastern front...:)
 
The Russians have recaptured most of Eastern Europe without a fight..The German tactic of retreating before an atatcking force arrives and than attacking from 2 or more adjacent provinces has been worked out and new doctrines have been issued to the troops. I feel the German front will collapse very quickly when the latest Russian tanks reach the front lines. The Germans hold the balance of power in the air but you need fuel to fly them and they will become a costly liabilty for the Germans. Next session should see some significant advances made on the eastern front as the German player runs away in the face of superior Russian tanks and infantry.
 
Manpower??

No Manpower events (Im sure there are a few) are firing for UK. Can this be checked as lack of manpower is my biggest problem this game.

Vote is Berlin 2 Tokyo 1 for the first Atomic bomb target
thought you,d like to know :)
 
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Well considering house rules say no A-Bombs til 44 at earliest, I'm not sure that I'm worried about that ;)

Last nights session saw Japan enter the war on December 7th, catching the US off guard, who mistakenly believed for some reason that the Japanese would wait til the following year. The main action in Asia/Pacific was against the Phillipenes, which were annexed with no Japanese losses. Likewise, invasions of Burma are underway, and Malaya has been largely overun. Only the slow pace of the game, which saw us advance only until late January 1942 prevented further defeats for the Allies.

Hong Kong also fell, strangely still defended by the UK. It's garrison was no match however, and ever more British forces marched off to POW camps. Indonesia was also invaded, and parts of Java overun. As reinforcements are freed up following the capture of the Phillipenes, it is anticapated that this region will swiftly fall.

In the Pacific, the US had deployed exceptionally large forces to garrison its islands, causing some head scratching about why, after getting worked up over the German threat with Bermuda, the US chose to place the majority of its forces facing Japan. Watching the unit ledgers, it appears US builds have been solely committed to Japan as well.

Nonetheless, wake island, and several fleets near it were captured or destroyed. Likewise, the Gilbert islands, and other US islands in the SE pacific were captured, with large defense forces wiped out. Japan forayed against Palmyra, but it's fleet was destroyed, the only blot on the attacks so far.

In the air however, the US has been pummelled. In several battles, around 20 US carrier squadrons have been annihilated, as well as some fighter squadrons as well. Japanese long range fighters have a clear advantage operating in the pacific against the US carrier air, and short ranged air superiority fighters of the USA. Even now, newer Japanese air models are close to deployment, ready to take to the skies and cover the Imperial Navies advances, whilst it already occupies the central pacific without fear of US naval advances.
 
I have some ideas for the Russian problems know I have played them. I sympathise with mike and my tactic of retreating to the river line on the declaration of war was done more becuase I had no idea how much my forces could take having never played the Russians before. I have noticed thats in early 1942 and the Russians developed extensively in land and armour techs and land doctirnes. Having posted my thoughts on the coremod forum maybe they will accept a couple of ideas. The first question I have is....What is the incentive for the Russians to defend the border? Why does the Russian player retreat to the first river line?
Well for a start there is no incentive to slowing the Germans down....The Russians have superior infantry and can beat back any Axis advance especillay when it has reduced all its org in a cross river battles.
I think we should delay the Land doctirne from being produced that allows imprioved tanks and infantry weapons for the Russians so it must be started to be tech at the start of 1940...it should be ready come 1942. This means no improved russian tanks till 1942 and no advanced infantry doctrines or tanks till 1942 either. Make the Russian player build lots of infantry and make it so they dont want to give up ground early because they cannot afford to let the Germans get close to Moscow a month after the war has started. Every province would become valuable and the Russian player would have some incentive to defend close to the border. at the moment I dont mind if the Germans take easily the provinces close to the border because i know i can beat him at the river. But with reduced tech I am not sure I could beat him at the river so I would be relunctant to give up any ground easily trying to consume as much time as I could.
Any oponions?????
 
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