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Diefledermas

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Dec 17, 2002
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What are some good Axis Strategies?
 
By "Axis" I refer to the combined efforts of Germany, Italy and Japan (+/- some minor nations such as Hungary, Finland, Romania etc). There are a few different ways to plan your game as Axis, but in my view it's all about two major problems:

Problem 1)
How to tackle the colossal US economy (once the US enters the war, the Allies will generally outproduce the Axis)

Problem 2)
How (or more like when) to attack the Soviets

From my own experience, if the Axis have to tackle both these problems at the same time, they will often loose the game.


The main strategies to choose from to handle the first problem:

A) Minimize the war entry (WE) of USA at more or less any cost

B) Steam-roll everything everywhere, trying to increase your IC and monthly manpower so you can beat the USA in the long run


If you go for the A option:

1) Don't DOW unnecessary countries like Norway, Denmark, Switzerland (Denmark does have the benefit of controlling the Sund, so if this is a big concern, DOW them and block it)

2) Don't DOW the classic Axis-fodder such as Netherlands and China

3) Avoid events that raise US WE (sending stuff to Spanish civil war, demanding stuff from the Czechs, Anschulss etc)

4) Always accept events that lower US WE (can anybody say "Vichy"?)

5) Initially concentrate on the UK and France. After you Vichify the French, eliminate the UK in the middle east, Africa and India (Japs get India, rest to Italy). This gives Italy control of the Suez. If you find it a high priority, you can go for Gibraltar (though this is usually not very easy...)

If you go for the B option:

6) Feel free to DOW anyone, anywhere, anytime. Take Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Spain, Turkey, Persia, China, whatever you want. Where possible, try to snatch those last VP provinces so you can annex them (send the Italians through Africa to get all of Belgian Congo, send some transports to French Guyanna, let the Japs take out Indonesia). With good ministers and decent industrial tech, this will give you several hundred extra IC.

7) Once this is done, switch almost your entire economy to making troops for 6 months, then steam-roll the Russians with the combined effor of ALL the Axis nations.


How to handle problem #2 (when/how attack Soviets):

There are a few important aspects to consider time-wise:

Aspect 1)
Soviet tech gets better and better (the Germans have a decisive advantage with much better starting tech than the Russians, in the long run however, the Russians will catch up. German tech does get better, but not as much as the Russian tech).

Aspect 2)
Soviets get more and more IC the longer you wait (all those lvl 1-2 provinces in Siberia)

In other words, you shouldn't wait very long to attack them. The longer you wait, the harder it will be. After you have achieved your Axis goals in the Middle East, Africa, India and northwest Europe, you should attack within 6 months (use this time to make troops such as infantry or tac bombers)

As to how to attack them:

8) Germany alone vs Soviets is a bad idea. Use all the available Axis troops for this. This means roughly 3/4 of German army and 1/2 of the Italian and 1/2 of the Japaneese, . With all of these forces, you have a large advantage on a division vs division basis.

9) Attack from all possible directions: along the Polish and Romanian borders, via Finland, Turkey or Persia (if these are conquered or part of Axis), land Italian troops via the Black Sea, send Japs into Siberia.

10) Use the classic blitzkrieg approach and move your panzer armies to encircle large Russian armies. Support with tac bombers (aka Airborne Artillery).
 
There are a few things that I still have not made up my mind about:

11) Should Italy attack or not attack the Balkans early? (I prefer doing it early, snatching Yugo, Albania and Greece)

12) Should the Axis annex, puppet, coup or influence the lesser European nations (Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Siam)? I prefer to let the Italians have annex them. If you puppet instead you can use them as garrisons, but I generally don't like doing that.

13) When/how do you attack the UK mainland?

Comments?
 
No offense, but how can you convince the Japanese player not to attack China? The resources and IC gained from a war there are crucial to Japan, even more so if they are supposed to be able to defeat the US navy and do amphibious invasions (The Nanjing event can be easly avoided). Also, maybe 1.05 has changed some things, but in the previous patch an Italian invasion of Yugoslavia and Albania lowered US WE.
 
I have never found China to be that necessary, Japan has plenty of resources that can easily last them until Vichy grants them Indochina. If it is an eight-player game, the Axis can benefit much by getting China to join them and making it a 4 vs 4 game instead of 5 vs 3.

I haven't really played in 1.05 yet (finishing off a 1.04 game with a group), but I'd imagine many strategies change due to the war starting later.

Start the war later. Memorize which techs Sudetland and the Spanish civil war grant you as Germany, this is darn important so that you can work around these free doctrines on the tech tree until you get them.

Japan should use their new fleet to its maximum potential and start bullying Allies right away and not stopping (check the ledger to see the status of their fleet). A Japanese player should win naval engagements with and without ship-stacking rules. Their fleet is quiet useful at preventing units trapped in Singapore from retreating.

Australia is surprisingly easy to puppet, a Japanese player just needs those two island-VP's (Port Moseby and New Ireland), on of the beach provinces next to the Capital (Melbourne, Sydney) and then the Capital itself. If you want to Annex Australia it'll take about ten times longer and five times the amount of forces. New Zealand should be annexed for it is too easy for the US to repuppet.
 
dont be too trusty on japan, i like to join the commies with the japs, that really makes the game a 3 alliance game.

excellent fun

as for strategies, dunno, get the Italians to take Spain and shoot up from the south into france...
 
Italy must be controlled by Germany.

If the Italian player goes off willy nilly, then the WE goes out of control and brings Germany into an early war.

Germany is the leader and needs to choose the timing of the war.

So the Italian player needs to coordinate with Adolf otherwise it's a waste of everyones time to play a defunct game.

Ask before attack.

Yes, the Balkans are nice to have as Italy but let Germany decided when and IF.

If the German player feels that he looses his opportunity to win the game by the crazy actions of Mussolini.

THE AXIS WILL LOOSE.

With out a strong Germany and cordination of strategy there isn't chance the Axis will win.

That's why the German player should be one of the strongest/experienced person in MP.
 
Your right, but its not like Germanies the boss, it´s just that the Axis have to play a full co-op game, no going solo.


Anyway my last Axis stratagy was as follows:
Players Germany, Italy, Japan, Usa, UK, SU

Germany:
Builds
30 Battleships
20 Troops

Italy:
Builds
16 Transports
Troops

Japan:
Builds:
Troops



When German Battleship armada finished, Italy transfers whole navy and transports full of troops to the Baltic.

Japan send 5 battleships and 7 cruisers to Baltic.

WWII declared.

Massive Sea battle in North Sea. British navy with the fishies.

Italian Army lands in Bitain with close Naval support.

German Army invades france.

Still not finished but the british had sent most of its troops to france and was caught off gaurd!!!!!!!!

Nice little twist to the war:D
 
who was the spana who said germanies not the leader! THEY R ERANT D SO STOP PRETENDING THEY AINT!
 
Originally posted by ErantD
Your right, but its not like Germanies the boss, it´s just that the Axis have to play a full co-op game, no going solo.


Anyway my last Axis stratagy was as follows:
Players Germany, Italy, Japan, Usa, UK, SU

Germany:
Builds
30 Battleships
20 Troops

Italy:
Builds
16 Transports
Troops

Japan:
Builds:
Troops



When German Battleship armada finished, Italy transfers whole navy and transports full of troops to the Baltic.

Japan send 5 battleships and 7 cruisers to Baltic.

WWII declared.

Massive Sea battle in North Sea. British navy with the fishies.

Italian Army lands in Bitain with close Naval support.

German Army invades france.

Still not finished but the british had sent most of its troops to france and was caught off gaurd!!!!!!!!

Nice little twist to the war:D

Decent strategy but having Germany build warships is a waste of thier superior land doc. You want them building armor and inf. Attempting to equal UK naval forces as Germany is a waste of IC in my opinion. You dont have to build a navy as Germany, let the Japs and Italians handle the seas. Sure its nice to knock Britian out early if you can but as Germany your number one enemy is always Russia.

Committing your war machine to combat the allies only is a major mistake, those 30 battleships can translate into how many tanks? Italy starts with a big land army to start they dont need to build anything exept a support air force and more heavy crusiers. Unless the values have changed cruisers are a better investment then BB.

Plus you have Japan who can dominate the English Navy and they better, because once the U.S. comes in that Imperial navy has to gaurd the Axis agaisnt the americans. I have played the UK more then any other nation, and I can assure you that the UK is the one nation in MP that has to play defensive until Russia or US come in. Part of that is refitting and consolidating your navy. the stacking exploit hasnt been fixed, and unless thier is a house rule no one can stand up to the UK navy early.

ITs never wise to attack someone strength, and the UK strength is thier navy. When attacking the allies as the Axis you have to hit the UK on many fronts, Italy in North Africa, Japan in India, Germany in France. Its doubtful you can knock the UK completely out of the game, but if you attack thier strength your chances get even slimer.

Unless your counting on the UK player screwing up, which happens I know I have screwed up. But counting on a human player making a mental error is a bad strategy, the UK is spread out over multiple fronts, attack by land on all of those fronts and one of them, or more then likely 2 will definately fall.

My reply assumes an AI France as was your example, a Human france changes things considerably.
 
Umm, 30 German BB's? The ones armed with 300mm+ cannons or did you actually have the time to build improved or advanced BB's? Let's not forget that the better cruisers are pretty good too, and cheaper...
 
First Germany Aint the Boss, he is the strongest true, but you´d better see the Niponese and the Italians as your equals or they´ll just join Rusquis or the allies. The important thing is NO ONE goes lampooning around the globe without a 3 way or 2 way (depending on the Japanese) agreement!!!
The Germans need to listen to the advice of others, the bigger the head the harder the fall.

Second this was just a different approach, US Navy was also sunk :), and it was a laugh. Thing is I find battleships are very cheap, less than a tank division in IC and Manpower. A lot less in man powaer I think. (I´ll correct this and put the exact amount later :D.)

Third Ordin you are absolutley right and if one reads what the Germans thought of survace fleats; Reader was haevily criticised for the Tripitz and Bismark becuase the amount of steel used in one BB was enough for 80 U-boats. Anyway my appraoch was a exagerated Reader approach (30 BB instead of 3 battlecruisers, 2 42,000 ton BB Tripitz Bismark 6 52,000 ton BB never built and 250 subs. He siad that with this the Germans had a fighting chance against the British navy. (Thing is he was counting on the fact that the British would sit idley by).
 
First Germany Aint the Boss, he is the strongest true, but you´d better see the Niponese and the Italians as your equals or they´ll just join Rusquis or the allies.

Spoken like a true Italian player...

it's ALL about them
 
Originally posted by Diefledermas
Spoken like a true Italian player...

it's ALL about them

so true, its funny how somethings are universal, particularly with Italian and Russian players....
 
Originally posted by Lunar
Yeah, I know what you mean. Italy needs to accept while they are vital, they aren't a fifth as important as Germany.

Vital for securing the Med and opening up the middle east for sure. If you get into a game with an italian player that toes the line for the axis your in for a nice game germany and Italy can be pretty potent when in support of one another.
 
Originally posted by MadViking
There are a few things that I still have not made up my mind about:

11) Should Italy attack or not attack the Balkans early? (I prefer doing it early, snatching Yugo, Albania and Greece)

12) Should the Axis annex, puppet, coup or influence the lesser European nations (Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Siam)? I prefer to let the Italians have annex them. If you puppet instead you can use them as garrisons, but I generally don't like doing that.

13) When/how do you attack the UK mainland?

Comments?
for #11 i would let the germans annex the yugos before the italians join the axis so that the gemans get a port in the med.
 
your sttategie

hi it's depend to your strategy
1) naval 's strategy lead to destroy the power naval as UK or France

2) land's strategy lead to conquer more countries lke minor countries as balkans countries or France. URSS is difficult to conquer and need a global approch. It's depend when you declar the war.

one solution is to write your plan for production, research and ID
with a calendar for the differents years

;)
 
Well, even though this might not be the most common solution GS_ Clan did it like this:

4 on 4 (Finland, Germany, Italy, Japan vs. UK, USA; FR, SU)
Everything allowed, except that Italy HAD to be in an alliance with Germany to attack anybody else then Allies oder Russian Player.
(to prevent Italy steaming through Balkan, with almost NO warentry on allies side and no chance to stop this)

Right from the beginning the Main Focus was to leave Germany, Finnland and Japan out of war. Germany did research in Landtech, Italy Air, Japan Naval Stuff.
Finnland gave massive Doktrine Tech to its Friends (The minister shares for 0 diplopoints, when government differs, and well...finland is democratic ;) )
Italy therefore rumbled through ethiopia in recordtime, boosted by Finland and Germany and then secured the forces by puppeting.
Before the Allis new what happend, Italy then took ist mobile Forces to Africa and by the end of Spring secured Egypt AND our main Target SUEZ CANAL.
Jerusalem was then well guarded, but to late for allies.

Russian Player became most dangerous now. He overran Finland, knocking it out of the game, but to late. All Landdoktrines were allready shared. Finland did its deed, Germany lost some Divisions trying to rescue it.

Russia the did a nice move, asking for military accsess trough Poland, while the German Player as occupied trying to break through Belgium, to get France deploying troops there.
Italy had some trouble holding its western border vs. massive French assaults.

With Russian forces advancing through neutral Poland, we had to be a little bit more aggressive.
Counting the russian Divsions in the West, Axis formed up, in war with Russia and Allies.
Japan & Manchurei overan the russian eastern Forces, capturing parts of its fleet. We also encircled all Divsions and began to take All of eatern Russia, whil over 80% of his troops were in Poland, unable to be stratigically redeployed.
Only at Irkutsk the bear finally stop the Jap. Mongolia was allready a puppet of the axis.
German Player was in big trouble with an unfinished assault on Belgium, loss of Eatprussia due to allied landings and roughly 60 Divisions advancing throug Poland.
Before the next 4 Panzerdiv were ready he decided to trap allied forces in the Baltic sea by raiding denmark.
English forces landed to help out...halting the assault for a while.
Luckily the Russian player was VERY slow in advance.
Therefore there was enough time to rush back to Belgium, and counterattack Brussels after a failed french mass attack.
Belgium was our.
By Summer 1936 the new Panzer and Mot Div werde ready, Denmark cleared out, all available forces sende to berlin.
The first Line of defense was crushed by russian masses.

MEANWHILE the Jap Player took all english & french colonies in pazific and Indian ocean, annexed siam, puppeted Australia (which was human controlled and ighting in Eastafrica) and stormed Iraq from behind. He sank all that dared to be in his way and helped Italy also beating Russian, French & British Fleets in the Meditaranian. After Annexing Iraq he advanced into the totaly unguarded Black sea and onwards South Africa.

The Italian player pulled of a nice landing in Marseille and gave the french Player a hard time.
Still Berlin was about to fall, surrounded up to Halle there was little hope.
Anyhow, by splitting his forces with every province gain, Germans finnaly retook one province trapping 12 Divsions in Halle. The Russian Bear was calm all of a sudden, Germany went back to west., with a few forces.
Japs landed in Odessa and advanced all over ukraine, followed by italian Forces, while to German Divsions made its way through enemy controlled baltic and secured Finland as well as Leningrad. (All UNGUARDED)
Russia noticed it had no chance to redeploy without a direct way to moscow, and somehow lost its interest.
Moscow was taken litterally unguarded in July 1936.
The forces in Eastern Germany were cut off Supllies and Russia gave up. Meanwhile Franco fought on our side, since allies tried to finish him in Civil War. With Japanese help we unified Spain and gained an new Partner.
German Player then broke through a canadan held piece of French border an directly drove onto Paris. by Agust 1936 the 2nd Player gave up.
Remaining Allies decided to resign as well, after a helpless landing in Hamburg with all 12 existing US Divisions.

Looking back at how we won so fast I´d say:

1. Taking SUEZ is the most important early War Strategy.
With the massive Italian Forces, it shouldn´t be a problem. And it allows to supply through the canal, as well as combining Italian & Japanese Fleets.
2. Dividing up Research ist very important. Use the individual knowledge allready given by start.
3. DON`T ANNEX. Try to beat smaller countries without really killing troops and turn them around by puppeting. Only annex once in while to be able to deploy newly build troops there. Iraq for Japan is interesting ;)
4. Constantly check numbers of enemy Divisions. If he is busy doing something at one point of the earth, attack on the other.
5. Don´t play with normal CHAT. Play with Teamspeak or other Voiceprogs. Makes coordination better, way better.