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YertyL

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Jun 9, 2016
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I wanted to discuss this because I am still baffled by it. I see a pretty clear trend in the B & B content balancing. It's not a lazy copy/paste. There are a lot of conscious design decisions to make B&B content more costly than vanilla SM.
Asteroid mining is a lot harder to pull off than regular mining. The water extractor and mines are costlier than their vanilla versions and colonists die a lot faster walking on asteroids than on mars. You need costly techs even for little things, like bringing rovers to asteroids. Both the micro-g-habitat and the underground domes have a much, much higher upkeep than comparable mars domes. (10! water and oxygen for an underground medium dome with no vaporators). You can easily lose a lot on asteroids and constantly have to clear rocks in the underground. Everything is harder.
With so many conscious decisions to make the game harder for the player, you would assume there is some amazing payoff at the end....but there just isn't. Everything seems to lead to the underground wonders, but then at least 3 of 4 underground wonders are pointless if you do not plan to have many domes underground, which you have no reason to want (don't know the full effect of the bottomless pit yet, but I doubt it's worth the investment).
I truly don't get this. If game designers had just neglected balance, I would have expected them to just make the new content horrendously OP, but that's not the case. Clearly, someone gave some thought to game balance. I would say that e.g. the amphitheater is balanced better than some content packs. There is also a theoretically nice progression in B&B: Mine asteroids to explore the underground, explore the underground to get to the underground domes and wonders...but then...nothing. How did nobody notice that all that additional in-game cost has zero payoff?

So excuse the slightly ranty nature of this post, but I am still a bit stunned by this. Giving your added difficulty some reward in the end seems like such an easy and obvious thing to do, and I believe that the DLC could have been much more enjoyable and much better received with even some simple tweaks in that direction...But as it is, there is zero reason to pursue much of the B&B content after trying it once. I believe adding additional challenge to SM was a great direction to go with a new expansion, but how did no one notice that an additional option that is essentially "same as vanilla, but worse in every way" just begs to be ignored? Like I said, I am truly puzzled what happened there.
 
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The game has always had bad balance IMO, but you're right this DLC's content makes it even more obvious. There's just too many deposits on most maps that, added with sponsor uniques, make self-sufficiency trivial.
 
On higher difficulty levels, the maintenance costs are so punishing you end up needing just about everything you can get (on Mars' surface anyway) to survive. The problem with the B&B balance is that, as OP referenced, it takes too long to access underground or asteroids (tech barriers, cost barriers, etc). There's no meaningful way to trade off between stuff you do on Mars' surface and stuff you do in those places. The new maps just distract from your ability to survive the dust storm/cold snap/meteor shower, instead of helping you to get things which would aid you.
 
Yep, please give us something (like repeatable new breakthroughs) for our troubles on Asteroids and Underground. I tried to do a playthrough just for the Steam Achievements, but even that wasn't enough motivation to keep my interest in the tedium that is asteroid mining.
 
My only guess for the design decision is that someone thought something along the lines of "People are complaining that the mid and end game are too easy, let's give them something harder to do". And they stopped there. I struggle to imagine how anyone could have given a jot of thought into motivation for B&B or attempted to make it fun.
 
The most tedious part of the underground for me is how not smooth the ground is. So much clearing to make space for lamps.
Otherwise it is about 8k science to elevator, ramps, clear cave ins... send in a few commanders, an explorer and a transport and explore.

I didn't build a true underground dome settlement. I imagined using 50 percent dome water usage plus water spire to not having my colonists eventually die of dehydration.

It is pretty easy to take advantage of astroids though... but you need landers, recon, RC rover tech. Sweep the surface for stuff with the transport and have the explorer get some easy anomalies. Once you have auto drillers you are good there for exotic / rare metals.

Sending people is terrible though. So much work.. the first time I did it they depleted the water deposit in a few day and some died. It is also just not enough time to build everything, then have the colonists come. They also die instantly when landing unless they are all but dusting the living quarters with the rocket landing.
 
The most tedious part of the underground for me is how not smooth the ground is. So much clearing to make space for lamps.
Otherwise it is about 8k science to elevator, ramps, clear cave ins... send in a few commanders, an explorer and a transport and explore.

I didn't build a true underground dome settlement. I imagined using 50 percent dome water usage plus water spire to not having my colonists eventually die of dehydration.

It is pretty easy to take advantage of astroids though... but you need landers, recon, RC rover tech. Sweep the surface for stuff with the transport and have the explorer get some easy anomalies. Once you have auto drillers you are good there for exotic / rare metals.

Sending people is terrible though. So much work.. the first time I did it they depleted the water deposit in a few day and some died. It is also just not enough time to build everything, then have the colonists come. They also die instantly when landing unless they are all but dusting the living quarters with the rocket landing.
Well, luckily underground domes specifically can't have spires for some reason -- maybe it was to prevent exactly this scenario of a sustainable underground settlement :confused:

And yeah, I have also lost quite a few colonists on asteroids too. Hopefully both the low water deposits and immediate deathst will get patched at some point. For now, there is the better landers mod.