Bad performance on CK+ only?

[Zukhani]

Using the latest patch Beta 5, I'm getting very chugging performance. The game runs couple of days just fine then drops to 30-20 fps and chugs. I let the game run for 100 years but the problem continues. I got a decent PC and can ran other big overhaul mods just fine like HIP and Warhammer. I tried to change to Beta 4 which also shares the same problem. The 2.7 version however works ok.

 

[LordPeter]

Hmm... lately, there have been quite a few reports about this.
I myself suffer from the problem, too; but the rest of the dev team seems not to. There's nothing obvious that would cause it (as the problem is not entirely related to the addition of Tibet iirc, because one of the first Beta version works fine), but reports are too many now to ignore it.
I'll try to investigate, but as I said there is no obvious cause, so I don't know if I will be successful :/

 

[LordPeter]

So I did some quick testwith all the BETAs, and it turns out I was wrong: The game is slow across them all, with no significant difference.
The test conditions I used were: From 1067.1.1 to 1068.1.1, observer mode, speed 4, max zoom in at Faeroe island.
The results:
BETA1: 1:50 (1 min 50 sec)
BETA2: 1:51
BETA3: 1:49
BETA4: 1:56
BETA5: 1:53

These are all still within measurement error, and no general trend is visible.

So in conclusion, the slowdown _is_ to be blamed on the addition of Tibet and its new provinces.
This seems to make the difference, and causes the game to stutter on lower-spec systems. Note that while HIP has _even more_ provinces, CK2+ has more events and gameplay elements running, so every single province stresses the game more than in HIP, or in any other overhaul for that measure.
The mod has been reported to run fine on higher spec systems, so I guess the only solution is to upgrade your hardware, more specifically your CPU. Out of curiosity, what is your CPU @Zukhani?

 

[Tmadmad]

I think it's the trade routes. I edited the silk road and grand turk routes and I *think* it got faster. who knows, could be placebo effect.

here are the files if anyone wanna test them. just around 5 bytes smaller in total.

edit:
I mean 5 kbytes.

 

[LordPeter]

Interesting, thx. I'll take a look.
Though the traderoutes are great, I would hate to cut stuff :/

I should probably also add that another option to upgrading the CPU is to wait for return of the "No India" submod, which will increase performance. Still a while away though.

 

[Zukhani]

So I did some quick testwith all the BETAs, and it turns out I was wrong: The game is slow across them all, with no significant difference.
The test conditions I used were: From 1067.1.1 to 1068.1.1, observer mode, speed 4, max zoom in at Faeroe island.
The results:
BETA1: 1:50 (1 min 50 sec)
BETA2: 1:51
BETA3: 1:49
BETA4: 1:56
BETA5: 1:53

These are all still within measurement error, and no general trend is visible.

So in conclusion, the slowdown _is_ to be blamed on the addition of Tibet and its new provinces.
This seems to make the difference, and causes the game to stutter on lower-spec systems. Note that while HIP has _even more_ provinces, CK2+ has more events and gameplay elements running, so every single province stresses the game more than in HIP, or in any other overhaul for that measure.
The mod has been reported to run fine on higher spec systems, so I guess the only solution is to upgrade your hardware, more specifically your CPU. Out of curiosity, what is your CPU @Zukhani?

My CPU is Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz.

 

[zeress]

I think it's the trade routes. I edited the silk road and grand turk routes and I *think* it got faster. who knows, could be placebo effect.

here are the files if anyone wanna test them. just around 5 bytes smaller in total.

edit:
I mean 5 kbytes.

Cutting trade routes does make it faster, but so does cutting any one feature in roughly the same efficacy.

The short version of it is that we've done extensive testing on our end and nothing actually stands out as a silver-bullet, other than just outright removing provinces. This is more of an issue of having a lot of things in the mod in general, not an issue of optimization as we've more-or-less hit a DR on that front barring new things in the future coming.

 

[LordPeter]

My CPU is Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz.

Okay, that's definitely the case then. Sadly CK2(+) is relying solely on single core performance/clock speed, which is only 2.6Ghz for you.
Even my CPU is slightly faster (on paper), so that will just not be enough. Heck, vanilla requirements are 2.4Ghz, and even though your CPU might have a turbo and more cores, that is enough for vanilla but not for CK2+.
Unless you play with performance submods enabled, of course. But again, gotta wait a bit for these.


@Tmadmad: Did a test run, went even further than you and deleted entire traderoute files. Same test setup otherwise. Here's the result:
Silkroad enabled, other traderoutes DISABLED: 1:58 (even longer! But margin of error)
Silkroad DISABLED, other traderoutes DISABLED: 1:30
Silkroad DISABLED, other traderoutes enabled: 1:30

So, cutting the Silk Road seems to have an effect, and the only noticeable one. However, I should add that the game still stutters for me even with that tweak!
Plus, the Silk Road being the only actual vanilla route (albeit a bit expanded), you should also get a performance boost by disabling it in vanilla! So nothing related to the mod really, and maybe it even screws up things because that's the one traderoute the game assumes to exist, e.g. for interaction with China.
I would thus advise against removing it unless you're desperate. Just wait for the performance submods.

Edit: Man, why must people always post seconds before me?
Anyway, there you have it from an expert, see post above mine ^^

 

[Zukhani]

Thanks!

 

[jfb8300]

I'm still waiting for India to be removed to test the betas. Previous versions of the non-India version worked just fine on my machine, but it's just to slow to even bother with right now. Slow being relative to each user, of course.

 

[das]

Weird, I could've sworn Beta 3 worked just fine for me but Beta 5 stutters. Maybe I just got used to it back then and then forgot how it was during a break, or lucked out somehow. Or maybe that small difference was enough.

 

[vukica]

Weird, I could've sworn Beta 3 worked just fine for me but Beta 5 stutters. Maybe I just got used to it back then and then forgot how it was during a break, or lucked out somehow. Or maybe that small difference was enough.

We tested, every beta has had exactly the same speed.

 

[Berzerk90]

I also have choppy performance on the latest beta releases and i did not have that on earlier versions of this mod. It may very well be the Indian continent that does this for me.

 

[nikssims]

I really like the plus mod but comparing CKII+ to HIP in terms of performance, HIP is way faster. I have I3-7100 and on HIP mod the months just fly by when I set the speed to 5. CKII+ has some 3x lower performance. Most likely this is due to the trade routes because when I delete the trade routes from the mod the game speeds up to almost the levels of performance HIP mod has.

While I agree the trade routes are a great addition I would rather be able to disable them properly to get more speed because of my CPU.

Another thing I noticed is that when I run the game and look at province modifiers to see the trade route icons, they are all flashing rapidly and changing positions all the time. Is that normal?

 

[LordPeter]

While I agree the trade routes are a great addition I would rather be able to disable them properly to get more speed because of my CPU.

Well - you can.
I mean, you obviously already did that, so frankly I don't see what the problem is? You cannot disable them ingame if that's what you mean, because they aren't dynamic and can't be controlled by a gamerule.
If you want to delete them in the files you can do that. It might mess with a few things because e.g. the offmap China thing will assume that the Silk Road exists, like in vanilla. And a few mod features are designed to work differently in provinces with traderoutes iirc.
But it shouldn't crash anything if you delete them afaik. Note, however, that I did some speed tests and it seems that the Silk Road is the main culprit, cause if you don't disable it performance does not improve.
TL;DR: We won't disable traderoutes in the main mod, but locally you may do it. So please don't complain about things we are aware of, the reduced performance is a result of CK2+ being packed with much more features than HIP, and we won't change that. The new Tibet provinces add to the performance strain, so you may want to use the No India submod once it is available again. But yeah, we are aware and there isn't much we can do as modders without sacrificing major parts of the mod.

Another thing I noticed is that when I run the game and look at province modifiers to see the trade route icons, they are all flashing rapidly and changing positions all the time. Is that normal?

That is normal, I think it is the result of the game deciding on regular intervals whether to still display the icon or not. Might be related to the performance, idk, but that's vanilla engine working and nothing we can do.

 

[BrokenSky]

The mod has been reported to run fine on higher spec systems, so I guess the only solution is to upgrade your hardware, more specifically your CPU. Out of curiosity, what is your CPU Zukhani?

Isn't optimisation something which is still on the to-do list? (If I understand/recall correctly, the bit where it'll stop being beta and just be "JD release" is after the optomisation happens?)

 

[LordPeter]

Isn't optimisation something which is still on the to-do list? (If I understand/recall correctly, the bit where it'll stop being beta and just be "JD release" is after the optomisation happens?)

Not that I know - I mean, no specific plans, of course optimization is always something that we would like to do.
The thing is, there isn't really much to optimize that I know of. If it would be as easy as "hey, look, we are firing totally useless events that take away 20% of performance, let's scrap these guys!", then we would surely do it. But Plus is just packed with lots of additional features that many of you love, and in contrast to Paradox we can't simply edit the engine directly to make it resolve them more efficiently.
If any of you notice an event or decision that slipped through and indeed has some very inefficient scopes or whatever, feel free to report it. It's a lot of code to maintain and while the main devs are quite talented, they can't comb through all the files regularly.

My own PC is pretty crappy so I know what you all mean, and believe me if there was a simple thing that did the trick I would do it.

 

[InDeoSperamus]

I've noticed that too.
After updating to 2.8 with CK2 Plus the game suddenly becomes very lagging, almost unplayable.
HIP runs smoothly without any stuttering.
I wonder why in the world is that :/

 

[InDeoSperamus]

I think it's the trade routes. I edited the silk road and grand turk routes and I *think* it got faster. who knows, could be placebo effect.

here are the files if anyone wanna test them. just around 5 bytes smaller in total.

edit:
I mean 5 kbytes.

Much faster tbh.
It seems that silk road is the main culprit here.
I wonder what changes you've made in these files.

 

[vukica]

I did some more testing about this, and it has occured to me that I have debug options enabled (more logging and that kinda stuff). Testing speed with all that enabled is waste of time, since it takes a fair amount of power.

Now, with debug options enabled, the difference in game speed between the current version and a version with no trade routes was about 5%. Five.
With debug options disabled, the difference in game speed is ~90%. Ninety. Fucking. Percent.

So, the trade routes *are* the culprit for the speed loss. Though, probably not the routes themselves, but all the various branches that exist for each route.

And that's the reason why we didn't see the speed drop. With debuging enabled the traderoutes have hardly any impact, and it's all basically random.