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unmerged(2867)

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Apr 11, 2001
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I've seen this term about a thousand times as I wander through the boards, and while not a EU newbie, I still don't have the complete understanding of 'badboy' points and how they are acquired.


My inferences:

DoW is bad.
Annecting is bad.
Diplo-Annecting is bad.

Anything hostile is bad.

Would someone be so kind as to give me the veteran's definition and viewpoints on BadBoy points and acquiring them?
 
BB Rule of Thumb?

I play as Austria and in the 1650s my BB is 25.:) Is this good or bad?

Actually, there was one time when I went to war against probably 20 nations (4 or 5 alliances). Alone!:confused: (They DoWed on me of course.) And, honestly, I could have won the war if I wasn't upgrading all my city walls during peace time. (No money for armies.):D

Anyone have a rule of thumb on how low to keep your BB rating?
 
I think it's a relative thing. 25 is bad but there
could also be someone badder. If everyone is DoWing
you like you say they are, I think it's pretty safe
to assume that you are the "badboy".
 
BTW, the game I'm playing now is in 1706 and there
are only five nations with a bb rating above zero
and the total of all 5 bb rtgs is only 10.


Talk about a "Lovefest"!
 
Does the location that you annex affect how many BB points you lose? For example, I fought two wars against the Aztecs and Incas and I obtained one territory from them the first war, and annexed them both on the second war. I have 19 BB's now (several years later) and I want to know if I had done the same thing in Europe, would I have more BB's, the same, or possibly less.

Oh, and how bad is 19 BBs if the nearest country to mine has only 9?
 
How's 89 for a badboy level?

And the next highest is only 5....

I was wondering why I was constantly being assaulted, over and over, and having revolts left and right, even though my stability was +3...

So how did I do it?

My first game... (not counting part of the "tutorial") Chose France for Grand Campaign. I see I have permanent Casus Belli against England, Spain, and a couple others, and temporary CB against a couple minor nations. Well, I try diplomacy first, and Helvetia and Scotland take a liking to me to the point where I get them to +190 or more. Helvetia lets me vassalize them, but Scotland won't. I have forcibly annexed Lorraine (and Alsace).

Noting that England has allies of some small nations near me, and I have CB on England, I DOW England and their little allies charge to the rescue. NOT! I capture and forcibly annex a couple little countries and take Yorkshire and Calais. Revolts. I can understand that. I can handle that.

Next, I see Spain is allied to a couple other little nations I want, and they've got those annoying territories in the west I want so bad, so I muster up my forces again and swarm into Spain, and again, while holding back Spain (cuz she's tougher than she looks) I trounce all over her little allies and annex them. France is bigger, and the more she eats, the hungrier she gets!

Now England (cuz it has CB on me, and I didn't realize why) DOWs me, and I take even more of the British isle. But for some strange reason, I no longer have a "permanent" CB on England, while they have one on me. Took me a while to figure out why (home territory reasons, of course; once I kicked them out of Calais, there was no reason to attack) and it made me a little thankful that I hadn't taken over too much of Spain's territory.

Next thing I know, the Netherlands declare independence and like a fool, I send in a RM, trying to win them over, and be nice about it. But NNOOOOOO!! They don't wanna be around me. And they won't end their war with Spain, because that one little territory didn't switch over, even though rebels hold it and Spain can't reach it. So I send in the troops and take over the Netherlands. Big mistake. That place made me feel like I was trying to put out a fire with a broken squirt gun!

I DOW on Spain again, to get some more of those eastern provinces, but somewhere along the line, Scotland allied with Spain, so they declared war on me too! So like a good little warmonger, I took over most of Scotland (refused to let me annex them, and I may be able to walk over Spain at the beginning, but she's another quagmire, so I have to declare peace with them before too long.)

England DOWs me before I can make peace with Spain, and then all those little German countries start DOWing me, and combined like that, they have a LOT of army! It isn't long before EVERYONE in western Europe (almost all the known world) has DOWed me!

Well, Poland, Austria, and the Turks can't easily reach me, but I've got a lot on my hands. I pick 4 little German principalities right next to each other and cature them and annex them. I make peace with a couple nations, ceding some money, but no turf. I have revolts breaking out. SOMEHOW I'm not losing, but I'm not really winning either. The Netherlands destroys anything I send within a couple years, but it takes me about 20 years before I pull out. But they won't seperate either...

I finally get it down to a couple contestants, and I'm about out of money, and then some one I made peace with comes after me, bringing a few allies. I defeat them, and more come up. As each peace treaty ends, each alliance DOWs me, and France has fought continuously for 60+ years! Revolts, neighbors... it never ends! But I hadn't been forced to give up territory yet (though they tried really hard) and holding on to Scotland/England and the Dutch was more than enough to keep me occupied.

Finally, my frustration exceeded my faith that this vicious cycle could ever end, and I gave up and decided to look for answers, which you nice people have provided.

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by Dawe
Does the location that you annex affect how many BB points you lose? For example, I fought two wars against the Aztecs and Incas and I obtained one territory from them the first war, and annexed them both on the second war. I have 19 BB's now (several years later) and I want to know if I had done the same thing in Europe, would I have more BB's, the same, or possibly less.

Oh, and how bad is 19 BBs if the nearest country to mine has only 9?

It would most likely be higher in Europe

And, yep, 19 with 2:nd runner up at 9 puts you in everyones target as the #1 badboy around by a wide margin.
 
Haha yeah! I noticed. It dropped to 17, but Spain declared war on me (stupid revolt changing me to Protestant), and France did also a little later, fortunetly my game crashed :) and I was only fighting Spain. Only reason I took $250 from them was because they left two of their core provinces w/o fortresses :) I lost a lot of points on battles though :(
 
It is very easy to get a high BB with Austria, if you pick on your European neighbors, or if you dip-annex stuff.

25 is pretty high.

I just finished my GC with Austria. I DoW'd on some little Germanies that broke their alliance with me when they turned protestant, when when I annexed them I had a high BB. Also, DoW'ing on European neighbors, without a CB, is a big hit.

I didn't mess with the Turks, so I don't know if that is an easier way to go from a BB point of view. I never had a CB with them and they never attacked me, because Venice kicked their butt in a war in 1492, and they stayed out of southern Europe for the whole game, except for a pass at Poland.

If you want to avoid BB when you play a country, the best wars to get into are wars where you have a CB and you are fighting a large non-European.

For instance, if you have a CB on the Mamelukes, and you DoW on them and snatch three provinces, you lose zero stability and you get zero BB for this. Without a CB you lose two stability but you still get zero BB.

The game tries to reward you for bashing on non-European heathens, and tries to punish you for upsetting the balance of power, in Europe.

bruce