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Age of Wonders III had almost no unit enchantments, there were a couple class related ones. Nothing to stack.
Classes as such were not present in the first 2 games and barely even a thing in the 3rd or Planetfall (just as tags).
Planetfall had a limit of 3 modifications per unit. It took 2 turns to change them, You had to pay Cosmite for them.
  • Simultaneous unit and production queues are entirely new to Age of Wonders 4.
  • Form traits are entirely new to Age of Wonders 4, these were always race inherent.
  • Unit class definitions and templates were specifically added in Age of Wonders 4.
  • Tomes and affinities are not entirely new but a major departure from all previous games.
Are you sure you played the previous games and understand the differences between all 6 of them?

While Age of Wonders 4 has done a lot of good things, it also went backwards in many ways, especially on launch.
The developers have since then performed many updates and often reverted back to the way of previous games.
They've also added new content that copies and/or reinvents mechanics from previous games, such as Dwellings.

Enchantment stacking IS a problem. Just because you choose to ignore it in your games doesn't make the problem go away.
Unit mono stacking IS a problem. Just because you build a random army doesn't mean it's the optimal way to play.
Tier lists for Cultures, Society Traits, Form Traits and Tomes ARE real. Ignoring them doesn't make the reality any different.

When people optimize the gameplay, regardless of SP or MP, these problems rear their head. Denying them helps nobody.
If you only intend to deny all problems and say "This game is perfect". Then say it once and kindly exit the conversation after.
I, for one, could do without your constant insults and absolute lack of respect to everyone who disagrees with you even slightly.

lol ... so much personal feelings without any actual argument, as usual for you ...sadly.

you COMPLETELY misread my statement or just try to create a strawmen, i talked about apples and you start talking about bbq steak.

i was saying that the concept of mythic style units or unit classes was already present in previous games MECHANICALLY!!!! in NOT ONE sentence is mentioned that AoW4 was the same as AoW3, nor that it has simultaneous units production, form traits or tomes. stop imagining stuff or making stuff up, this isn't a imaginary tea party!!!!

the grim reaper with its strength & weaknesses, even big parts of his kit was already present in AoW3 (go look it up at aow3 github), what they addes besides some minor changes was the "mythic unit" tag / classification. but that is nothing more than a tag / classification for a type of unit that was practically already in the game. they just made it more formulaic in the game. they needed to do this classification not only to have an easier time balancing units (to have a baseline per unit type), but also for their new enchantment system, because they didn't want single cast for single unit enchantment, because you rarely use it in other fantasy 4x games, because its not efficient (and honestly bothersome) to enchant everyone one of your unit every turn for a minor dmg buff. so to better use those widespread enchantments they implemented class tags in ordner to be able to filter who gets which type of enchantment for several reasons. in order to give non-uber units aka non-mythic units a leg up they gave them all the enchantments, made mythic untis quite strong but not enchantable.

enchantment stacking isn't a problem, just because you personally feel like it and a select few might agree with you, doesn't mean that 99,9% of all the players want it removed too, your (or my (!) single) opinion means JACK SH*T!!!!

also just throwing a tantrum like you do just proves my point that your unable to form a coherent argument. nobody is putting together a "random army", just because you lack the insight to construct a synergistic army and just blindly pump out the strongest units you have and your multiplayer buddies don't know anything better than to do the same with weaker units and even units countered partially by your unit type doesn't mean what you do is optimal. having a strong frontline, one who can protect and attack and strong ranged units behind which can attack every turn is better than having 6 ranged units which - given some positioning- can at best only half of them attack. battle map terrain also plays a role, especially when playing against a player in manual combat. you can abuse the terrain to keep your backline protected while the frontline protects them and them being able to attack. meanwhile half your units can't attack. the problem with melee units is inherently that they have short range.
 
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While Age of Wonders 4 has done a lot of good things, it also went backwards in many ways, especially on launch.
The developers have since then performed many updates and often reverted back to the way of previous games.
They've also added new content that copies and/or reinvents mechanics from previous games, such as Dwellings.

while the game wasn't perfect at launch (and most likely never will be like any other thing in the universe), it still was and is the best game in the series and miles ahead of the last iterations. the devs fine tuned it and added much asked content from previous iterations like dwellings from planetfall. they did at NO POINT "reverted back to the way of previous games", they just ADDED stuff that the players aka the customers aka the ones who pay wanted to have.

also they can't "copy" in a negative sense their own game, its what they created and they implemented specifically what people wanted and asked for.

they also ignored a bunch of guys which completely unreasonable demands that ask for the removal of whole areas of the game just because their personal feelings are that way. thankfully the devs have enough experience and foresight knowing what a good suggestion is and what is a bunch of crap.

we may argue as we want, but at the end i trust the devs to make the right call in it, as they have done so far. (that thankfully means ignoring your unreasonable "suggestions" lol).
 
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Few disagree became "alllll my posts". Lol A simple view in all profils prove that is wrong. And even if it is the case, are you going to cry because someone disagrees with you? And theses guys want to debate or do math. If don't want/like contradiction, don't come here. The first affirmation is already wrong. Like Arcantos say, some people not worth timing. I agree with that. So I add Arcantos on my ignore list : p Defend behavior like Cody is unforgivable itself to me. You can't defend that, so out. This will give us a vacation, and stay with guys who want debate quietly and stay open to others.
 
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seperamos and Xerberus are both on my ignore list, because they aren't worth the timing arguing with.
Lol good riddance. I can't recall a single time this guy contributed anything meaningful to any debate here whatsoever. Ignoring other players for pointing out inconsistencies doesn't help foster meaningful community, and it's definitely not going to help those multiplayer numbers go up.

If this is an example of the type of players the new changes are going to appeal to, I may just skip out on future seasons and DLC entirely. It is not worth the blood pressure having to constantly debate people who refuse to see the point of views of others.

Arcantos is always right, and any contrary opinion to his is always wrong.
 
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And I told you three times over that all of our feedback is based on vanilla gameplay.
Corroborated with 2 other, pure vanilla, communities and discussed at length.

So. What argument do you have left now? Let's hear the next reason why you disagree.
It seems I have been talking over you this entire time, maybe I failed in my communication, but my initial argument was:
  • Data gathering done by Triumph is only useful if done with unmodded games, which means most MP matches need to be discarded.
You took that to mean that I was saying that Triumph shouldn't use MP inputs. Which, again, I never purposefully said that.
Again, it doesn't matter YOUR personal input or MY personal input. Triumph can send a questionnaire to everyone and they will know that each answer will be filled with personal bias.
To actually see how the game is being played and where something needs to be tweaked (up or down), it is best done when everyone has the same base, i.e. unmodded games.
Which is why I kept saying that modded MP games don't help out Triumph's data gathering as much as you think.

But hey, something tells me you will still take offense to what I said anyway...
 
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Cody, I'm urging you for the sake of our sanity to consider the opinions of the other players of the community. Dont just dismiss our opinions and resort to name calling and defensiveness, really take the time to understand why players feel a certain way. There are too many variables in this game to just dismiss arguments presented aside from your own.

Gain support against flagrant abuses and OPness that a majority of players can agree on and then take it to the devs from there. Otherwise, people are going to get increasingly bitter at seemingly random nerfs to certain segments of the game in the future. Everyone wants a fair and fun game here.
 
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Feels like everyone in here hating is crazy. Look at Cody's fix for fabled hunters - it's just changing the reward from 75% to 50%. It's not like he removed it from the game or anything. Almost all of his balances are just slight tweaks of numbers. I don't agree with all that he says needs fixing, but I would still play with his changes implemented because most of them are so small.

And Xerberus... using capslock and exclamation points doesn't just automatically win arguments.
 
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Feels like everyone in here hating is crazy. Look at Cody's fix for fabled hunters - it's just changing the reward from 75% to 50%. It's not like he removed it from the game or anything. Almost all of his balances are just slight tweaks of numbers. I don't agree with all that he says needs fixing, but I would still play with his changes implemented because most of them are so small.

And Xerberus... using capslock and exclamation points doesn't just automatically win arguments.
I think we all know when the insults started happening and who was the initial cause of the flame war.

That said, healthy debate should be constructive and not about denigrating the person behind their position. I would like to see less arguments and more debates backed by facts. Not an artificial divide between single and mp players. Both groups purchased the games and want to purchase more seasons and dlc, we cant get that unless we have consensus on the balance we want to see and for what areas of the game.
 
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Cody, I'm urging you for the sake of our sanity to consider the opinions of the other players of the community. Dont just dismiss our opinions and resort to name calling and defensiveness, really take the time to understand why players feel a certain way. There are too many variables in this game to just dismiss arguments presented aside from your own.
Again, you're talking to me as if nobody has agreed with the things I've posted, even if only partially.
You're making me out to be the bad guy, when I have not done any name calling towards anyone here.

Please read all the explanations already given and the watch the multiple video sources I linked to back up my claims.
As I said when I posted them, I agree for 90% with what is being said in those videos. I share most of their opinions.
I would also invite you to read discussions on both the official and non-official Discord for further insight into this.
Finally, you can always do your own research by testing things in-game and giving us your own personal conclusions.

I already understand the variables, as do the people I have played and discussed the game with for 2 years now.
But to ask me to explain them to everyone else is like asking me to teach them to play the game all over again.

Only the developers need to understand the issue, they are the ones who require feedback with which to act.
Everyone else should be capable enough to make up their own minds and verify claims made by other people.

Gain support against flagrant abuses and OPness that a majority of players can agree on and then take it to the devs from there. Otherwise, people are going to get increasingly bitter at seemingly random nerfs to certain segments of the game in the future. Everyone wants a fair and fun game here.
When someone acts without respect, typing in caps lock, using ??? !!! and performing personal attacks, they get none of my time.
I will only be responding to people who actually engage in a proper discussion and ask questions relevant to the topic.

As for support. If you can filter out the relevant responses you'll see at least 5 other people in this topic alone.
This isn't everyone vs me seperamos. This is a few people screaming over everyone who tries to contribute positively.
The two of us and a couple other people are trying to do something that contributes, but we keep getting interrupted.

If you go and look through the other thread you'll see that a vast majority is in agreement about the issues presented.
The only thing left to discuss is how to actually resolve the issues in the best way possible for everyone involved.
 
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This forum is for the discussion of games, not each other.
 
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Again, you're talking to me as if nobody has agreed with the things I've posted, even if only partially.
You're making me out to be the bad guy, when I have not done any name calling towards anyone here.

Please read all the explanations already given and the watch the multiple video sources I linked to back up my claims.
I would also invite you to join read discussions on both the official and non-official Discord for further insight into this.
Finally, you can always do you own research by testing things in-game and giving us your own personal conclusions.

I already understand the variables, as do the people I have played and discussed the game with for 2 years now.
But to ask me to explain them to everyone else is like asking me to teach them to play the game all over again.

Only the developers need to understand the issue, they are the ones who require feedback with which to act.
Everyone else should be capable enough to make up their own minds and verify claims made by other people.


When someone acts without respect, typing in caps lock, using ??? !!! and performing personal attacks, they get none of my time.
I will only respond to people who actually engage in a proper discussion and ask questions relevant to the topic.

As for support. If you can filter out the relevant responses you'll see at least 5 other people in this topic alone.
This isn't everyone vs me seperamos. This is a few people screaming over everyone who tries to contribute positively.
The two of us and a couple other people are trying to do something that contributes, but we keep getting interrupted.

If you go and look through the other thread you'll see that a vast majority is in agreement about the issues presented.
The only thing left to discuss is how to actually resolve the issues in the best way possible for everyone involved.

it's really obvious by now that you don't understand it, you put out statements basically saying "remove 40% of the game we have right now" because you yourself and maybe 2-3 other dudes your talk in your personal opinion bubble with agree with you, doesn't mean that the wider mass or the devs agree with you and it definitely NOT means that your PERSONAL OPINIONS are actual facts as to what you try to frame them. you have ZERO backup to your claims, stuff like the three pictures you posted earlier are more against your arguments then for your arguments and show the flaws in your views because you lack the insight to consider reasoning and all the variables included.

you also don't give ANY real explanation, all you do is just deliver some bullet points of which kind of feature / content you find OP, without analysing the pros and cons of it and without taking into account other options. when people give you counter arguments or arguments for why other options might be stronger and thus your points not "OP" at all, you just plainly ignore them and label them as "trolls" because you seem to be unable to actually engage in an adult argument. and you do it again here..."if you can filter out the relevant responses" ...<-- THIS bullsh*t again, dude the only NON-relevant response on this thread are YOUR posts, by YOUR definition you should filter yourself out. you advocate again and again for people to get kicked out or reported to the moderators because they give counter arguments. you are in this threat 100% the troll that tries to kick everyones bucket. everyone here is open for actual arguments and a discussion about them (me included), but you don't seem to be willing to do that.

THIS forum here IS the official forum and the right place to discuss stuff like that. there are more than enough experienced players in the official forum (HERE), which are able to articulate counter arguments, but it because obvious that you aren't able to withstand them.

you can have your opinion and you can bring forth your arguments and we can talk about them, but that's not what you want to do. but if you make a statement which calls for a complete change of core features or their outright removal, you ought to give a reasoning and accept some counter arguments. your sh*tty attitude and negative behavior towards myself and other writers in this thread is just childish and makes it obvious that your aren't able to articulate proper arguments.

"
I already understand the variables, as do the people I have played and discussed the game with for 2 years now.
But to ask me to explain them to everyone else is like asking me to teach them to play the game all over again.

Only the developers need to understand the issue, they are the ones who require feedback with which to act.
Everyone else should be capable enough to make up their own minds and verify claims made by other people.
"

<-- you don't think this is insulting? nobody asks you to explain us how to play the game, its the opposide actually, it seems you don't have a clue how the game works or how its balanced. and instead of engaging with the arguments you try to dismiss other peoples opinions and arguments again and again. you don't consider the variables at all, you ignore them actually when posted in this thread. this isn't making a good case for your statements.

and like you said before, for the past 2 years the developers have received your "feedback" and chosen to ignore it, that might give you a hint about the factuality of your statements, which are severely lacking. the post you quoted from avoxel hat SEVERAL big IF's, this wasn't by any stretch a confirmation of your statement regarding your personal subjective opinion about the state of enchantments, only that IF he would ever look at this topic the MOST he would think would be considerable.

a vast majority of people in this thread and in similiar ones are definitely AGAINST removing 40% of the game, especially dlc content like eldritch sovereign, umbral realm and other stuff they paid extra for just because some random dude on the internet thinks for his multiplayer sessions the game needs to be ripped apart because he cries "OP OP OP". you can mod thinks out, you can disable certain dlc and you can change the realm rules with realm settings and you can make house rules like people have done for ages in multiplayer sessions.

again, this game is a singleplayer game with a multiplayer feature to allow friends to play together, this isn't a competitive online game, there will be imbalanced stuff, nobody gets exactly the same loot drops, nobody gets the same amount of wonders or resource nodes. the game and other simliar games like it are inherently imbalanced. the more balanced and homogenous they become the less fun they are because asymmetry in this games makes more interesting content and decisions than symmetry does. that is also why games like warhammer 3 and endless legend were so successful, because they have enough asymmetry to allow for different playstyles, not all have to be equally strong or equally potent. the game at the end is a singleplayer game, it doesn't need to be balanced on a wanna-be competitive level.
 
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Feels like everyone in here hating is crazy. Look at Cody's fix for fabled hunters - it's just changing the reward from 75% to 50%. It's not like he removed it from the game or anything. Almost all of his balances are just slight tweaks of numbers. I don't agree with all that he says needs fixing, but I would still play with his changes implemented because most of them are so small.

And Xerberus... using capslock and exclamation points doesn't just automatically win arguments.

it wasn't meant as a yelling or anything of the likes but an underlining of certain words, wasn't meant aggressively.

my problem with cody mainly boils down to him saying "i only want some slight number tweaks" while he asks for literally 40% of the games content to be removed.

if you look at his earlier post in this thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...stop-the-pay-2-win-dlcs.1735027/post-30283827

<-- thats literally a big portion of the games content that he labels "oppressive"!!! like ancient wonders, umbral abyss, ritualist & warrior hero classes, xp banner pick ups and other stuff. this is pure madness!!! he takes everything which has some inherent random factor to it or what he personally thinks is strong and declares it "oppressive".

i don't want him touching anything balance related with a 10 feet pole. if he wishes to remove or nerf to death a bunch of stuff just because he doesn't like it and isn't even open to an argumentative discussion, he lacks any reasoning.
 
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Again, you're talking to me as if nobody has agreed with the things I've posted, even if only partially.
You're making me out to be the bad guy, when I have not done any name calling towards anyone here.

Please read all the explanations already given and the watch the multiple video sources I linked to back up my claims.
I would also invite you to join read discussions on both the official and non-official Discord for further insight into this.
Finally, you can always do you own research by testing things in-game and giving us your own personal conclusions.

I already understand the variables, as do the people I have played and discussed the game with for 2 years now.
But to ask me to explain them to everyone else is like asking me to teach them to play the game all over again.

Only the developers need to understand the issue, they are the ones who require feedback with which to act.
Everyone else should be capable enough to make up their own minds and verify claims made by other people.


When someone acts without respect, typing in caps lock, using ??? !!! and performing personal attacks, they get none of my time.
I will only respond to people who actually engage in a proper discussion and ask questions relevant to the topic.

As for support. If you can filter out the relevant responses you'll see at least 5 other people in this topic alone.
This isn't everyone vs me seperamos. This is a few people screaming over everyone who tries to contribute positively.
The two of us and a couple other people are trying to do something that contributes, but we keep getting interrupted.

If you go and look through the other thread you'll see that a vast majority is in agreement about the issues presented.
The only thing left to discuss is how to actually resolve the issues in the best way possible for everyone involved.
Some of the things you want to see changed I agree with, some of the other things you want done I disagree with. We'll have more success in pleading our case with the devs by pushing non-controversial changes first.

The problem is, if you reread the earlier posts you created in this thread, your zeal for wanting the balance to be done in a certain way has antagonized other people that don't find such changes to be required anytime soon. In reaction to their disapproval, some of your posts consisted of appeals to authority, strawman arguments, ad hominem attacks against single/rpg players, and a
general sense of superiority against the commoners who are not yet convinced of the necessity of certain changes. If you reread your initial posts in this thread and can tell me with a straight face none of that is true, then I'll stop commenting here.

Going back to balance adjustments now and in the future, there are some issues that are more contentious than others, and have to be singled out for particular attention and shown to the community as to why they need nerfs or removals. The best way to show these issues need improvement is to compare the issues to the standard format of their type within the game. This way, backed by verifiable data, will convince people who are otherwise on the fence or adverse to changes without a known cause.
 
Gawd, if you insist on just piling on each other...
 
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