Balance

[Avernite]

Some thoughts on the balance of the game, since noone apparently posted about it recently:

Bavaria tends to perform well, unless the crusade triggers. Then they lose half their land and get buggered. Also, I'd make the two core-gaining events choiceless. Usually, they get elected emperor, untill they annex all the electors friendly to them, after which burgundy or savoy tends to win (depending on the religion of the tiny german electors).
Britanny has problems, usually lose some land that they should have to burgundy or Scotland, but often maintain enough to colonize.
Eire and Scotland are boring, stick to the assigned isles (Scotland hardly gains Norway, though)
Kalmar, Hanse, Teutons and Finland all similar: usually do ok, sometimes one implodes and the others grow a bit.
GH tends to not collapse, but not grow either.
Cossacks, Volhynia both tend to collapse/be annexed.
Swabia hardly ever grows much, due to some bug that almost always grants Milan to Orleans.
Genoa, Savoy and Sicily usually do ok, sometimes one collapses or is DA-ed.
Al-Andalus hardly collapses, usually grows okay.
Caliphate nearly always overperforms, handsomely beating the Il-Khanate, Jerusalem, Egypt and Byzantium.
Hungary likewise, especially if they ally with Bavaria they tend to overwhelm any opposition.
Byzantium has troubles. Who wouldn't, if you have to annex the same 3 provinces 5 times over. I bet the Caliphate would get less done if they had to continuously re-annex Yemen.
Whoever I forgot: Nothing to draw attention.

In general, I think Russia/the baltic is ok, Hungary and the caliphate should be downgraded a little bit, Byzantium up a bit, and maybe tiny bits of help to Britanny and a post-crusade Bavaria.
The cossacks and Volhynia need help if they should be powers, though the Hungarian downgrade would likely help that. If they are just so much space-filling, well, they're fine then.

 

[siafu]

What about Asia? Anything notable?

 

[unmerged(15247)]

Some thoughts on the balance of the game, since noone apparently posted about it recently:

Bavaria tends to perform well, unless the crusade triggers. Then they lose half their land and get buggered. Also, I'd make the two core-gaining events choiceless. Usually, they get elected emperor, untill they annex all the electors friendly to them, after which burgundy or savoy tends to win (depending on the religion of the tiny german electors).
Britanny has problems, usually lose some land that they should have to burgundy or Scotland, but often maintain enough to colonize.
Eire and Scotland are boring, stick to the assigned isles (Scotland hardly gains Norway, though)
Kalmar, Hanse, Teutons and Finland all similar: usually do ok, sometimes one implodes and the others grow a bit.
GH tends to not collapse, but not grow either.
Cossacks, Volhynia both tend to collapse/be annexed.
Swabia hardly ever grows much, due to some bug that almost always grants Milan to Orleans.
Genoa, Savoy and Sicily usually do ok, sometimes one collapses or is DA-ed.
Al-Andalus hardly collapses, usually grows okay.
Caliphate nearly always overperforms, handsomely beating the Il-Khanate, Jerusalem, Egypt and Byzantium.
Hungary likewise, especially if they ally with Bavaria they tend to overwhelm any opposition.
Byzantium has troubles. Who wouldn't, if you have to annex the same 3 provinces 5 times over. I bet the Caliphate would get less done if they had to continuously re-annex Yemen.
Whoever I forgot: Nothing to draw attention.

In general, I think Russia/the baltic is ok, Hungary and the caliphate should be downgraded a little bit, Byzantium up a bit, and maybe tiny bits of help to Britanny and a post-crusade Bavaria.
The cossacks and Volhynia need help if they should be powers, though the Hungarian downgrade would likely help that. If they are just so much space-filling, well, they're fine then.

from many past tries this is what generally happens on my map, regarding your points:

-bavaria usually survies and by 1800 remains about same size as starting centring more on central germany with times when it gets really huge then it shrinks; they ALWAYS loose the crusade due to unworkable event outcome

-same things i noticed about britanny

-eirw has big economic problems even when hold by human

-scotland has NEVER gained norway in ANY of my games....otherwise is very boring as i wrote before, even if it has certain events for england that are to late to keep player intreasted and not go sleep...

khalmar and finland always are in thei own world sort of say without outside interests; sometimes norway beats well khalmar.khalmar NEVER gains cores on finland due to finland must agree to it as option B of its event wich obviouslly happens only 5 percent of times. matty is their anyway to asign ai a 60-40 percent rate of choosing other options other then A. i mean A option at 95 times precent choosen assures A 100% of times

finland is VERY boring even if gains russian cultures and manages to beat khalmar; and human colonization proves impossible due to far lenghts to go; and the naval tech comes way to late due to its tech tree, to find any "intreasting" possible places to colonize....could i suggest an event that gives her island or greenland??? like a "sell" event.

golden horde i find it nicelly difficult and is not boring. as ai i totally conccur with you.

-cossacks NEVER grows in my games, usually ends up a 1 province fortyfied and dormant. i am sure that is becouse remains well behind in land tech even to golden horde...

- swabia NEVER gains orleans in my game; however sometimes it does become the biggest land nation from france to poland and north sea...i will personally test swabia next.

-genoa , savoy, pope, sicilly most do k, preatty balanced and preatty fun as well; some more events sparsed on time periods would suerlly make them most fun even more then caliphate. they all colonize VERY good, maybe less savoy and of course pope...pope many times does get divided and literally keeps only rome. preatty cool if ask me

-al andalus does as intended usually gets all iberia. problem is no colonization, thing wich will be "fixed " in next release . the marocan dinastic events NEVER trigger; sometimes maroco gets diplo annexed.

-telcemen is very hard to play but very fun, except only a few events to keep interest going...

- caliphate has many bonuses and literally no efficent enemy; il khanate does manage TO BEAT caliphate well especially at begining. but becouse tabriz and istafan count a lot in peace agreements those 2 provinces change hands a few times unti eventually caliphate superior tech kills it. as ai is preatty balanced; i would like it to get more involved in europe....

-hungary is probablly that on average games does the BEST as territorial expansion; no extra cores i think; hungary in all eu2 mods has some very efficent fighting priorities and usually wins becouse is very stubborn; peaces very very hard unless gets what she wants...

-byzhantum has the problems you mentioned wich makes it "stale" due to high bb earlly in game; i think integretting albania in empire at start would solve the problem; less 6bb..p;

-dichali is a "joke" a nationed well done in event choices but very isolated; ah and when it splits in 2 as ai, it NEVER reunificates; never colonizes and is just literally "there"...

-burgundy starts with 9bb wich literally makes it shrink fast and rarelly survives as ai ; rarelly does well, calais does help to keep in peace negociations and ws...

INDIA---why is ch...(whatever name it has) never gets big bb!?!??! has cores on ALL india? i mean it keeps growing and usually owns all india by 1500 . also the large forts in ALL provinces by 1600 is something wiered.."fortress india" i say :rofl: never seen that even with big european empires,; it has no real oponent and it jsut seats there for last 200 years making bigger forts
china develops well in this last beta, i like it
the indonesian minors DO colonize quiet well sometimes even tps in california but NEVER australia; nobody colonizes australia actually..

COLONIZATION:
seems that biggest colonial "wars" happens in brazil; is the place where you find even 9 colonizers sometimes; genoa OR hansa ALWAYS gets all carabean that maya does not hold...maya is ALWAYS staying SAME size, etc; only bermuda or florida i have seen it colonize sometimes...
nobody colonizes california( ai nations); only exception makes for indonesian minors or china sometimes but only as tp's

other general observations based on replay times:
-ruthenia has formed ONCE that i noticed in maybe 100 tries or more...
-cossaks do very bad becouse they tend to switch poor provinces with golden horde; and golden horde ALWAYS ends up having best tech by 1550 and smashing cossacks to beats...
-teutons are well concived as balance play, especially when ai; wastes a lot of resources in russia and NEVER compleates the crusade to gain russian culture; and then the 2 republics it might form it makes irrelevant in late play.
-caliphate is not boring AT ALL; due to huge spaces it has to cover and many directions, keeps one occupied; the "large nation events" DOES make it boring becouse u just have to seat and wait forever for bb to eventually go...now tell whats the "play value" in that!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Scotland and Finland can both be fun if you, as a player, make an effort, for one thing as scotland I took it upon myself to conquer all the reformed provinces, things went awry later as it's very difficult to go reformed as them (I believe it was fixed however) Finland could easily colonise siberia if you made an effort

 

[unmerged(15247)]

Scotland and Finland can both be fun if you, as a player, make an effort, for one thing as scotland I took it upon myself to conquer all the reformed provinces, things went awry later as it's very difficult to go reformed as them (I believe it was fixed however) Finland could easily colonise siberia if you made an effort

u mean i am NOT making "efforts"? : ; i think i have made all possible efforts in any eu2 mod ever made u see, at that point efforts are beeing made with even more "efforts" try it yourself;


just becouse something could be difficult, it does not mean that is WORTH especially when thinking in PRECISE eu2 concepts; why in the name i would try to keep a poor norway that does not even have land connection to my capital and make those provinces even less economic viable; i am not one of those players that just sit and trade; sometimes that is very important in mp but trading only against ai and prove that the game logarithm works as intended makes me feel stupid and USED sort of say :rofl:

depends what u think of "boring"; to me is the idea of beeing "forced" to adopt a path becouse otherwise i loose provinces to an event that thinks i am too "good" and for no logic would force me to fight rebels; boring to me is when there is something "forcing" me to "relax" :rofl:

coming to it one thing annoys me is the issue of "balance" ; i mean many tend to fall in the idea that the "progress" must be balanced; is the life itself balanced??
i remember many years past when used to do those BIG mp games and players left behind would get "bonuses" becouse the game was "NOT balanced" aparentlly; maybe is just me , but look at the real history.....in the end was just the "evil empire" and the "west" SUA...and now we have just ONE :rofl:

so tell me more about "balance"

 

[MattyG]

Bavaria tends to perform well, unless the crusade triggers. Then they lose half their land and get buggered. Also, I'd make the two core-gaining events choiceless. Usually, they get elected emperor, untill they annex all the electors friendly to them, after which burgundy or savoy tends to win (depending on the religion of the tiny german electors).

Yes, the interesting thing is that Bavaria used to always do too well. The crusade remains a problem, and I have reworked the outcomes/event conditions so that it has a better chance of completing the crusade. Bavaria is meant to fail in the crusade about 75% of the time, but not always. (And really, ought always to win it in SP, right?!)

Bavaria/Savoy losing the crusade means the alternative reformation might happen (still not guarenteed, though.) If it does, then we can give Bavaria a kick-start as it is now the real protector of 'true' catholicism: huge reduction in BB for a start, plus some events to represent the value of rallying the conservatives, like MP increases and donations from catholic nobles.

Britanny has problems, usually lose some land that they should have to burgundy or Scotland, but often maintain enough to colonize.

Yes it does. We had to tone down Brittany as it tended to be rampant in every Aberration game, but now it is too weak, or at least does poorly, which is surprising, as it has a good leader from the start. I think it has more to do with the ai files for it. Brittany is one of the more complicated countries in the early game for the ai to run, and it needs stronger direction.

Eire and Scotland are boring, stick to the assigned isles (Scotland hardly gains Norway, though)

Well, boring and interesting are different for each player. Scotland gained all of Norway without any intervention in the Catholic Reformation game I ran for 1.0 I have done as much as is possible for it to acheive that goal without handing it ridiculously large amounts of troops and cash. It's ai is very very focused, but the ai just isn't very good at overseas wars.

Kalmar, Hanse, Teutons and Finland all similar: usually do ok, sometimes one implodes and the others grow a bit.

Excellent.

GH tends to not collapse, but not grow either.

Yes, I think GH can only expand well under player control. It just isn't in a great position to do well, with too many competitors, religions and cultures making life difficult for them.

Cossacks, Volhynia both tend to collapse/be annexed.

Cossacks formed Ruthenia without my help in that Catholic Reformation savegame. But, yes, Halych-Volhynia in particular is another tough one for the ai, with too many relationships, too many choices and not enough money. The next step is to give it one of those ai-only events that fires only in 25% of games that give it some huge boost to be able to expand.

Swabia hardly ever grows much, due to some bug that almost always grants Milan to Orleans.

That bug has been finally fixed for 1.01.

Genoa, Savoy and Sicily usually do ok, sometimes one collapses or is DA-ed.

Yep, that's all good. Genoa is usually a really good coloniziner I find.

Sicily seems unable to undertake its more complicated North-African and East-Med opportunities.

Al-Andalus hardly collapses, usually grows okay.

Yeah, that's the general experience. It's one of the surest bets, along with Hungary.

Caliphate nearly always overperforms, handsomely beating the Il-Khanate, Jerusalem, Egypt and Byzantium.

Calipah and I agree with this and are working on a plan. Not so much for toning down the caliphate, but for adding extra richness and challenge in Persia/Iran and in Turkey.

Hungary likewise, especially if they ally with Bavaria they tend to overwhelm any opposition.

I think one of the problems is that Byzantium does not go for it (nor, really, should it, it's all wrong-culture and wrong-religion) and the minors are too minor and Ruthenia too often does not form. One big thing is that no other nation has cores on it or has magyar culture, much like Al-Andalus I guess. So it has no threat from day 1.

Then again, I rarely see Hungary get very big and it does not colonize.

Byzantium has troubles. Who wouldn't, if you have to annex the same 3 provinces 5 times over.

Agreed.

Thanks for all this careful analysis.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

What does Byzantium have to continuously annex? I've never seen this...

One other thing about scotland is that I looked at the events and they don't get the inherit york event as there are no triggers entered or dates, so they can't conventionnally diploannex till 1479 at the earliest, by this time the buy the claim to england times out, this is a definite bug!

Brittany is easy to play as they are able to diplovassalise all the surrounding countries quite easily (orleans, bourbonais, wessex) I don't know why the ai can't manage this though

Oh yeah the difficulty in iran should deffinetely be toned up, I found conquering it from the il-khanate to be a cynch (though I did this fairly late) and to be fair I got a lot of badboy, turkey is difficult enough though

 

[Avernite]

What does Byzantium have to continuously annex? I've never seen this...

Armenian kingdom, made up of georgia, armenia and sochi.

 

[Dell19]

Strangely enough in my current game Hungary is down to two provinces. For about 50 years they were at war with Bohemia whilst various other nations declared war and gradually gained territory. Genoa gained around 7-8 provinces in the Balkans whilst Volhynia gained a couple of provinces although they had already lost several provinces to the Teutonic Knights. Brandenberg have about 8 provinces.

Occitania formed although they are my vassals (I'm Asturias). I think without me they would have been crushed.

 

[MattyG]

Armenian kingdom, made up of georgia, armenia and sochi.

Rightk, thosxe are there for the ai only though. Events to reverse the ceaseless ai CAs of a Kingdom they establish by an event to create a defensive buffer for themselves.

I'll add some BB reduction to them.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

yes a bb reduction would be fair, though don't you lose bb if you grant a nation independence (even by event?)

 

[unmerged(15247)]

each porovince released looses 1 bb regardless if event might reduce too; so in effect would work here

 

[MattyG]

each porovince released looses 1 bb regardless if event might reduce too; so in effect would work here

I checked: those events already hafe -6BB as one of the commands.