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Best current solution to POP-cash bug?

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unmerged(24195)

unmerged(24195)

Sergeant
Dec 31, 2003
50
0
First of all, no, I don't claim to have the solution, I WANT IT! :rofl:

I've seen a few posts about the bug ("poor" POPs get rich, while the "rich" POPs can hardly feed and clothe themselves, if they're lucky), but I'm not sure what my best option is for a stop-gap solution while waiting for it to (hopefully) be fixed in 1.04.

In my game with Netherlands, I dealt with "The Flemish Problem" first of all (UK!, Prussia, and Austria all sided with me, France watched from the sidelines; needless to say, Belgium didn't do too well) then turned my attention to domestic issues (with the execption of the "forced Brussels annexation" 5 yrs later). Being my first game with 1.03, I experimented with the economy and budget for the next 8 yrs, trying to get a feel for things. I eventually realized that my upper-class population wasn't near what it used to be, and decided to check on my POPs needs. Most of you are familiar with what I found there. Aristocrats unable to feed themselves while the farmers and manual laborers are doing quite OK for themselves.

I don't know if my clerks-and-above POPs are devolving or emigrating, but either way, it's not helping the national cause. Hell, if things continue as they are, I expect the remaining "bourgeoisie" will soon start a revolution to correct the social evils inherit in the "proletariat"'s financial dominance. "BOURGEOISIE OF ALL COUNTRIES UNITE!" has been an oft-heard cry from my struggling aristocrats, capitalist, and clerks. :D I'm a Monarch, and damn it, I don't like revolutions, no matter which side of the social spectrum it comes from! :rofl:

Anyways, if anyone has tried a few different solutions to help address this problem, and has found one that doesn't involve major changes in the relatively balanced WM or major changes in national budgets, PLEASE offer your advice. Thanks for any replies, my Dutch bourgeoisie (the Flemish bourgeoisie are still a little sore, but I'm sure they will eventually agree)thanks you in advance!
 
Upvote 0
C'mon, 28 views, and no replies? Surely somebody has an opinion on the best way to overcome this, one of the most glaring bugs in 1.03? We undoubtedly have a couple of months at least until 1.04 comes out, so I hope someone wiser than I has a temporary solution. I just recently learned enough to read and write events (and still often screw up that) so I, and I'm sure many others, need advice to help overcome this POP problem.
 
Raleigh said:
C'mon, 28 views, and no replies? Surely somebody has an opinion on the best way to overcome this, one of the most glaring bugs in 1.03? We undoubtedly have a couple of months at least until 1.04 comes out, so I hope someone wiser than I has a temporary solution. I just recently learned enough to read and write events (and still often screw up that) so I, and I'm sure many others, need advice to help overcome this POP problem.
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My solution is to mutilate save-files until I figure out what the problem is. Keeps me busy.
 
They are able to buy what they want at the beginning, but must be shopping at the most expensive shops since they can't buy the same goods as poorer classes despite their much higher per capita income.

This is probably a typo in the code. Other than editing save game cash balances, your other option is to adopt a policy of masterful indifference to the problem.

Sir Garnet
 
Sir Garnet said:
They are able to buy what they want at the beginning, but must be shopping at the most expensive shops since they can't buy the same goods as poorer classes despite their much higher per capita income.

This is probably a typo in the code. Other than editing save game cash balances, your other option is to adopt a policy of masterful indifference to the problem.

Sir Garnet
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It IS a problem in the code, that much has been admitted. The problem is, they (the "wealthy") can't buy as much as the "poor." My poor have full basic needs, craftsmen, slightly less so, clerks much more so. My aristocrats and capitalists can't feed themselves! I've learned by searching the forums that this a "hard-coded" bug, meaning there is no simple player-mod solution, but I'd like to know what the best player-mod solution is, at this point, considering the next official patch is probably 2 mos. away at best.
 
The problem manifests itself as POPs not being able to afford their needs.

I do okay with doubling factory efficiency (more supply = lower prices), halving poor and middle class needs (lower demand = lower prices) and cutting upper class needs by 75%.
 
from the beginning of the 1.02 patch i've made the remark that the game has some big "nude" empires because the AI won't jump into the opportunities offered - so like making clothes for their pops...

however, today it seams the clerks can't afford the clothes - even if the AI is driving this price a lot more down by means of extra production

better qualified people are working on it,

so the problem is there already a long time and is still in evaluation, time will bring the answer, :)
 
The only way I have been able to have POPs with savings, without editing files, is to bring in all the social reforms to the max and lowering taxes to nearly zero, as well as moving tariffs into negative. Of course, most countries can't afford this.
 
Spruce said:
so the problem is there already a long time and is still in evaluation, time will bring the answer, :)
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I would bet that we won't see the next VIC patch until after CK goes gold and *maybe* also the CK 1.01 patch, if they're planning on having that available when it hits the shelves, as they did with VIC.
 
Marcus Valerius said:
I would bet that we won't see the next VIC patch until after CK goes gold and *maybe* also the CK 1.01 patch, if they're planning on having that available when it hits the shelves, as they did with VIC.
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Hard to tell. Johan did a bunch of work on EU2 in Jan, and then a bnuch on HOI in Feb. Maybe Mar is Vicky's month?
 
Raleigh said:
It IS a problem in the code, that much has been admitted. The problem is, they (the "wealthy") can't buy as much as the "poor." My poor have full basic needs, craftsmen, slightly less so, clerks much more so. My aristocrats and capitalists can't feed themselves! I've learned by searching the forums that this a "hard-coded" bug, meaning there is no simple player-mod solution, but I'd like to know what the best player-mod solution is, at this point, considering the next official patch is probably 2 mos. away at best.
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If you look around there are a few options (Willhelm II's industrialism mod, even I issued a new set of pop needs).

I'm intrigued though - in what way is this glaring bug affecting your enjoyment of the game. The impact on gameplay is relatively small. :confused:
 
Derek Pullem said:
I'm intrigued though - in what way is this glaring bug affecting your enjoyment of the game. The impact on gameplay is relatively small. :confused:
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i agree ... tiny in fact. not stopping me. i love this game. all that happens is that your rich POP's get more mil and conc sooner than they will eventually. so you learn how to deal with that better. what's the problem there? when the fix is out, you'll be a uber-player! ;)

and since i'm playing mostly as BRA right now, i only have 2 rich POP's anyway ... wish o could down-convert them to something useful! whats the use of having capitalists in 1836 when you won't have a factory until 1845 or so. wasting 10 years of RGO production on that POP! i'd do a 'Mao' in a minute and put those lazy sob's out in the fields if i could! ;)
 
Derek Pullem said:
If you look around there are a few options (Willhelm II's industrialism mod, even I issued a new set of pop needs).

I'm intrigued though - in what way is this glaring bug affecting your enjoyment of the game. The impact on gameplay is relatively small. :confused:
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Indeed. In fact, the effects of this are minimal enough that it hasn't even caused me problems yet in my games. (Some countries, or perhaps playstyles, seem more susceptible to it than others.)
 
PaxMondo said:
i agree ... tiny in fact. not stopping me. i love this game. all that happens is that your rich POP's get more mil and conc sooner than they will eventually. so you learn how to deal with that better. what's the problem there? when the fix is out, you'll be a uber-player! ;)

and since i'm playing mostly as BRA right now, i only have 2 rich POP's anyway ... wish o could down-convert them to something useful! whats the use of having capitalists in 1836 when you won't have a factory until 1845 or so. wasting 10 years of RGO production on that POP! i'd do a 'Mao' in a minute and put those lazy sob's out in the fields if i could! ;)
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It bothers me greatly because it distorts the demand signals that come from having the cash for luxury goods, esp in that many of the late-game products and resources will have little or no demand if the wealthier classes can't afford them.
 
Or you could try this: works like a treat. Though if you use it too often, prices for basic products go through the roof. Inflation, anyone? :rofl:

Code: 
event = {
	id = 300004
	random = yes
	invention = no


	name = "Let us celebrate!"
	desc = "The victories of your forces were cause for celebration - provided the State paid part of the bill."


	action_a = {
		name = "Let there be rejoicing throughout the Empire!"
		command = { type = pop_cash which = 25 value = 3000 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -placenumberhere }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Too expensive!"
		command = { type = prestige value = -10 }
	}
}
 
Nutmegger said:
well, it certainly does impact game play in that all my clerks are now farmers/laborers, my factories lie abandon, my research rate is slowed. This is not amusing.
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Clerks devolve to farmers / labourers
POPs can't get 100% life needs.

Two statements - why are they linked?

Johan has said that he believes the devolving clerks / craftsmen at <50% tax is linked to emmigration routine bugs. The more emmigration you have the more the problem appears. Reducing POP demands does have some benefit here as it will reduce emmigration a little.

Your factories do not lie abandoned. Farmers & labourers will function inside a factory at the same level as a craftsmen. So they are hit a little.

You research rate is affected. But I guarantee that if you stop emmigration you won't see this bug. Playing Switzerland if reduced POP demands I had no emmigration (some immigration) and I had no devolving Clerks.
 
Actually, other than a few Polish laborers fleeing to Virginia, I've had no emigration at all. Sure, very early in the game people moved all over the country to fill available slots, but they never left the country, and at that time there was no devolving. Only once everything was stable, everyone was working and no one was leaving did people start devolving.

As for my factories, I was not aware that the farmers worked just as well as the clerks, but if you ever close the factory for any reason, you certainly can not rehire the farmers. They won't go in the front door. Since I have, on occasion, shut down my luxury factories to allow the base-level goods to stockpile, this is actually a problem.
 
Nutmegger said:
Actually, other than a few Polish laborers fleeing to Virginia, I've had no emigration at all. Sure, very early in the game people moved all over the country to fill available slots, but they never left the country, and at that time there was no devolving. Only once everything was stable, everyone was working and no one was leaving did people start devolving.

As for my factories, I was not aware that the farmers worked just as well as the clerks, but if you ever close the factory for any reason, you certainly can not rehire the farmers. They won't go in the front door. Since I have, on occasion, shut down my luxury factories to allow the base-level goods to stockpile, this is actually a problem.
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Plus it looks retarded having Farmers working in a factory. :mad: You can't tell me that's WaD. double :mad:

Nutmegger - I had exatcly the same devolution problems as you w/ Prussia in GC. And b/ the farmers stick around in the factories it was difficult to detect, so much so that the problem killed my game and it was reload time.

The WM bug plus the devolution bug Derek hinted at (I had thought the 2 were linked - ie POPs devolving b/ they couldn't fill life needs) have completely killed all enthusiasm I had for the game right now. The fact that at the 3rd patch a new feature was implemented which turns out to be basically broken really ticked me off.

However, I'm watching this thread with interest, and will try some of the solutions offered - after I'm done enjoying the new EU2 patch. :)
 
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