[beta] So I can't really get any more jobs on this planet?

[Weyird]

About 50 years into the game and I'm hitting the point where I have no idea where I'm supposed to be getting more jobs.

While I could technically destroy the passive buildings like luxury residences, I don't want to. In 3.14 I would upgrade buildings to give more jobs and cost gasses/motes/crystals. In this current version those buildings just passively add a gas/crystal/mote cost to the workers and increase their production. It now also requires the correct zone, so just like my issue with the Heritage Site annotated above, I'd have to destroy all my buildings in my Industrial Zone, convert it to a factory zone, rebuild my two artisan factory buildings and then build the building that increases artisans' production at the cost of motes or crystals or whatever.

So yeah, I could specialize those two zones but it would end up giving me fewer jobs. More efficient jobs, sure, but fewer.

EDIT: Ok so I went ahead and specialized the two districts and now I have this:

It IS more efficient at both Unity and Consumer Goods production, although it loses the research and alloys it was making. Honestly, it's actually MUCH more efficient at GC production because when I destroyed my buildings to make the change I got hit with an "unemployment rising" event and now my pops are all using more CG, but you wouldn't even notice it. I also got an exotic gasses building which is producing A LOT of exotic gasses but pushed my minerals into the negative.

But at this point I still have no idea what I can even do with this planet anymore except ignore it and let it's extra population migrate to my other worlds. But if that really is all I can do then the sheer number of planets becomes much more important, firmly killing any kind of tall play.

I dunno. How are you guys building your planets?

PS: It goes without saying that this is a beta and numbers are not final yada yada. I'm just curious what changes would need to happen to this system to make better use of my growing population.

 

[ShaTiK]

But at this point I still have no idea what I can even do with this planet anymore except ignore it and let it's extra population migrate to my other worlds. But if that really is all I can do then the sheer number of planets becomes much more important, firmly killing any kind of tall play.

You do exactly that - move on and focus on another planet, letting automigration do the job. Also some demotion speed up would be good to speed up the process.

You can do a few things, but none of it is massive:
- you can squeeze more out of it by converting every rural district into city, leaving 1 of each to get the benefit of zone building slots, you can just fill them with basic job providing things. In terms of efficiency per POP it is sup-optimal, it is better to have dedicated energy planet with nexus - and you can use urban zones to fit 6 more buildings giving you 1.2k more technician jobs (but you need to remove some of the clerk jobs that goes with urban zone).
- you can dedicate it to a singular resource. This way you can fill the second zone with job providing buildings - civilan fabs, alloy plants etc (except science). Giving you 600 more jobs, this is not much but still something. Also you get more efficiency this way with planet designation and from bonus planet unique buildings
- you turn the planet into ecu. This isn't a good move, right now ecu demolishes every city district bar one. So it is better to turn pristine world into ecu, or be ready for some severe deficits if you decide to turn your main CG world into ecu, it would take some time to get it to where it was before the change

That's about it, really. Current system gives you all the tools to make mono-output planets.

Only thing left is to give players ability to create planet templates and then we could be done with this all boring 'planetary management' stuff to focus on really interesting game mechanics. Take your pick - blob military, barebones diplomacy or read the same expedition events over and over. /s

 

[WoodenP]

Only thing left is to give players ability to create planet templates and then we could be done with this all boring 'planetary management' stuff to focus on really interesting game mechanics. Take your pick - blob military, barebones diplomacy or read the same expedition events over and over. /s

When will Stellaris remove the need to click my mouse altogether?

 

[Red Death]

Well looks like you used up all the district and building slots, so I would say that planet is full on development! You're even using the flat-jobs buildings, which will probably not be desirable in the eventual version.

The only ways to squeeze more jobs out of it would be increasing the district limit via things like the expansion traditions or Mastery of Nature, or perhaps turning it into an ecumenopolis. Civilians on the planet will still produce trade value (and a bit more due to the monument), and there are supposed to eventually be more ways to get value out of them. Other than that, it is indeed time to let your citizens populate other colonies!

Since you're more than 50 years in, I think that's a fair timeframe for really needing more colonies if you need to keep growing your economy. This is a 4X game after all! If you want to grow without expanding your territory, there are habitats, and eventually Ringworlds. If you want to last longer on a single planet, you've got the option of taking Origins like Shattered Ring, Ocean Paradise or Life-Seeded.

 

[Weyird]

I did take the Harmony tree, eith its -75% demotion time it seemed super valuable since worker classes now multiply independently.

It would suck if a planet just got... finished... that early. I can understand if you start replacing the rural districts with more cities for more jobs - thematically makes sense - but with the logistics/trade cost of missing resources it becomes untenable. UNLESS they mercantile tree gains a reduction in how much trade/logistics is spent on missing planetary resources.

 

[Newbee53]

But at this point I still have no idea what I can even do with this planet anymore except ignore it and let it's extra population migrate to my other worlds. But if that really is all I can do then the sheer number of planets becomes much more important, firmly killing any kind of tall play.

To be fair, you'd reach the same point eventually in 3.14. I suspect the pop growth is out of balance pretty badly as well. A lot of the time I've seen--in a single play through--times when I thought it was too slow and too fast.

That your empire Captial starts near full actually makes a lot of sense. Taking earth as an example, humans have been building on this world for 10,000 years or more. So it makes sense to me.

To be honest I've never seen Tall Play--in stellaris--as being limited to some finite number of planets. to me its enterally limited to how you expand. No conquest, no minimum heapability worlds, and similar limitations. of course, that ends up with a decent number of planets. but this is a game focused on expansion. And doesn't take in weird galaxy gen where you have like 20 planets within your 'starter zone.'

Planetary rings, city planets, ring worlds, and even habitats will make a serious contribution here. allowing you to continue to grow and expand inside your boarders.

 

[-Marauder-]

To be fair, you'd reach the same point eventually in 3.14. I suspect the pop growth is out of balance pretty badly as well. A lot of the time I've seen--in a single play through--times when I thought it was too slow and too fast.

That your empire Captial starts near full actually makes a lot of sense. Taking earth as an example, humans have been building on this world for 10,000 years or more. So it makes sense to me.

To be honest I've never seen Tall Play--in stellaris--as being limited to some finite number of planets. to me its enterally limited to how you expand. No conquest, no minimum heapability worlds, and similar limitations. of course, that ends up with a decent number of planets. but this is a game focused on expansion. And doesn't take in weird galaxy gen where you have like 20 planets within your 'starter zone.'

Planetary rings, city planets, ring worlds, and even habitats will make a serious contribution here. allowing you to continue to grow and expand inside your boarders.

You would. But 7.2k pops = 72 pops. You can easily reach 100-130 pops in 3.14 on a decent sized planets. That's a very sizable reduction in productive pops per planet.

 

[Newbee53]

You would. But 7.2k pops = 72 pops. You can easily reach 100-130 pops in 3.14 on a decent sized planets. That's a very sizable reduction in productive pops per planet.

I don't think so. That was true when the change was '+2 jobs became+200 jobs.' but with the balance passes I don't think that straight conversion works any more.

You aren't wrong though. The number of resources from planets have gone down a bit. But that alone isn't a huge deal, and I've been saying sense they reduced the number of jobs that we should see an increase in resource production. I think they over did it the last time job numbers were reduced.

None of that changes the specific question of weather or not this is a problem. I don't think it is, assuming things are tweaked up just a bit. Personally, with the addition of civilians, you don't need as many officially opened jobs.

And the debate as to what constitutes 'tall play' is as old as the game itself.

 

[ShaTiK]

I did take the Harmony tree, eith its -75% demotion time it seemed super valuable since worker classes now multiply independently.

It would suck if a planet just got... finished... that early. I can understand if you start replacing the rural districts with more cities for more jobs - thematically makes sense - but with the logistics/trade cost of missing resources it becomes untenable. UNLESS they mercantile tree gains a reduction in how much trade/logistics is spent on missing planetary resources.

You can safely ignore trade. Just ignore it - have one planet dedicated to trade and occasionally level up city district.

As for the development - again, just forget about it. I tried another game in 3.99.6 and currently the gameplay is divided into 2 parts. First is when you don't have enough planets, so you cannot properly balance anything and running from deficit to deficit. And second part, when you have mono output planets for everything and just level up city district when you need more of certain output. Super compelling gameplay loop...

 

[-Marauder-]

I don't think so. That was true when the change was '+2 jobs became+200 jobs.' but with the balance passes I don't think that straight conversion works any more.

You aren't wrong though. The number of resources from planets have gone down a bit. But that alone isn't a huge deal, and I've been saying sense they reduced the number of jobs that we should see an increase in resource production. I think they over did it the last time job numbers were reduced.

None of that changes the specific question of weather or not this is a problem. I don't think it is, assuming things are tweaked up just a bit. Personally, with the addition of civilians, you don't need as many officially opened jobs.

And the debate as to what constitutes 'tall play' is as old as the game itself.

I disagree, because if planets do produce less. And they currently produce vastly less. Due to much lower carrying capacity. Then that throws the entire balance out of whack.

You can safely ignore trade. Just ignore it - have one planet dedicated to trade and occasionally level up city district.

As for the development - again, just forget about it. I tried another game in 3.99.6 and currently the gameplay is divided into 2 parts. First is when you don't have enough planets, so you cannot properly balance anything and running from deficit to deficit. And second part, when you have mono output planets for everything and just level up city district when you need more of certain output. Super compelling gameplay loop...

Yeah, the new system seems less engaged, less involved, and gives the player less control.

 

[Ryika]

I hope the limited long-term development is where the buildings that were announced, but are not yet implemented, help pick up the pace.

Right now science/unity planets feel very small, even when full, and I think that's largely due to the fact that you get the bulk of your job potential from zones at the very beginning of a planet's lifespan, and then it's all just linear as you build more and more districts.

That's just a very different feeling from upgrading your science labs or bureaucratic complexes/temples and suddenly being able to stuff a whole bunch of extra people on there.

 

[Kataclyszm]

blob military, barebones diplomacy

Sorry buddy, we already fixed Blob Military with the addition of Command Limit, and we had a whole expansion related to Diplomacy with Federations and its accompanying free patch, so it'll never need updating again! What you have is what you get.

/s