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Very interesting dynamic, Turkey supporting Romania against Hungary. Very 17th century :D

:D Right! The difference though is that Turkey was not a Great Power anymore. The Turks had their own anxieties at the time. Though I didn't read literature to their strategical challenges, one can imagine Turkey was afraid of a Soviet invasion, which might have determined them to cultivate friendly relations with the USSR, and they might have as well reasons to fear the colonial powers France and especially England, with whom they fought fierce battles in the Middle East during WWI. And, indeed by 1938-1939 feeling threatened by USSR, Italy and Nazi Germany, England had come to guarantee the security of Turkey. Probably the Turks had a good diplomacy, trying to secure their independence and territorial integrity by convincing the Major Powers to defend the Turkish security against each other.

A second supposition regarding Romania would be that Turkey was not interested to see the Axis powers to gaining access to the Turkish shores from two directions: the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. Moreover, the Romanian diplomacy has cultivated good relations with Turkey since their last war in 1878, which surely counted enough. The Hungarian threat of war with German support and the resolute Turkish reaction were real events, except they happened in 1939 (in my scenario they moved to 1937 :p).

The international politics was pretty explosive, and all the Minor or Medium powers felt very insecure, instinctively being aware they would be the first victims of Great Power rivalry and of redrawing of the spheres of influence. This explains the flury of diplomatic activity and the high number of regional alliances.
 
So it begins...

Good job on the industrial development, and on Infantry weapons research.
A few suggestions:

researching 'education' ahead of time has more effect on your research than researching 'mechanical computing machine' ahead of time. You get more leadership to invest in Research, though research doesn't get more efficient, the net result is usually still positive. (researching both ahead of time is best, but often too expensive for a minor/regional power) The faster you get that boost in leadership, the better. Of course, if you're going to war, it might still have been a wise choice, provided you get a lot of combat experience, and research 'education' in a shorter amount of time. (while combat experience is at it's highest).

Did you research any doctrines? Even with a limited research budget, 'Operational Level Organisation' should definitely be kept up to date, even in peacetime, as each level significantly reduces the downtime of your units between consecutive attacks.
 
So it begins...

Good job on the industrial development, and on Infantry weapons research.
A few suggestions:

researching 'education' ahead of time has more effect on your research than researching 'mechanical computing machine' ahead of time. You get more leadership to invest in Research, though research doesn't get more efficient, the net result is usually still positive. (researching both ahead of time is best, but often too expensive for a minor/regional power) The faster you get that boost in leadership, the better. Of course, if you're going to war, it might still have been a wise choice, provided you get a lot of combat experience, and research 'education' in a shorter amount of time. (while combat experience is at it's highest).

Did you research any doctrines? Even with a limited research budget, 'Operational Level Organisation' should definitely be kept up to date, even in peacetime, as each level significantly reduces the downtime of your units between consecutive attacks.
Oh, it would be wonderful to be in the position to research something ahead of time! As you mentioned this is an unaffordable luxury for Minors. Do you mean it would make sense to research Education ahead of time?

Regarding doctrines, no, there was no time for that, so high was the pressure to bring Infantry up to date. Before starting this AAR, i did a test Game with Romania until 1943. Late game it occurred to me how important the Operation Level Organisation doctrine is. Thanks for reminding me. My hunch is other military doctrines are essential as well, and I intended to start a discussion with you on them after the war with Hungary and the 1937 State of the Nation report.
 
Do you mean it would make sense to research Education ahead of time?
Industry Tab 16.12.1937
index.php
Going by the screenshot, you're researching 'Mechanical Computing Machine' (1938), which slightly boosts research efficiency. (it also opens up some naval doctrine research, but I'm sure that's not your plan. That said, you may have a use for encryption/decryption techs.). 'Education' is a tech that's a priority, the earlier you research a given level of education, the longer you get the resulting extra leadership to research useful things. Depending on how much base leadership you have, and how good your land combat experience is, you get more or less benefit from researching it ahead of time. In any case, before you consider researching any other 1938 tech, you should really start researching education, so that you can research more later on. Mechanical (and electronic) computing is also helpful, but it's impact on research is smaller than that of education.

My hunch is other military doctrines are essential as well, and I intended to start a discussion with you on them after the war with Hungary and the 1937 State of the Nation report.
Other doctrines are definitely also quite helpful, but you can probably do without them in the war with Hungary, because your army outnumbers theirs, and minors often don't have great doctrines anyway. Once you start facing Majors, they are a must though, and the best way to shine as a minor is to focus on only a small number of different types of brigades, so that you have few relevant doctrines to research, allowing you to get close to the doctrine level of the major powers. That said, the best time to research doctrines is during war, as all doctrines benefit from Land Combat Experience. So reducing equipment research and reorienting to doctrines makes sense, especially if the war isn't too long and you don't really risk losing out, equipment-wise.

If you want to have good doctrines, and to improve education, on the cheap, go to war for as long as possible, as soon as possible. An added bonus would be the added leadership from conquered territories. (if the wars go well). There's an exploit you can do as Italy, and that's to stay at war with Ethiopia indefinitely. Just never take the capital, and keep bombers flying missions, and soon you have more experienced commanders, a bigger navy, better doctrines etc.
 
Time to roll the dice and play the Game of Destiny
 
Hope the strike against Hungary goes well. Has Romania started aligning to anyone yet, or are they going to try to stay out of the main factions?
 
State of the Nation at the End of 1937 (II)

With most of Leadership distributed to industry and infantry, there was little research capacity left to allocate for Armour and Aircraft. No wonder, there were heated discussions between the Minister of the Army and the Minister of the Air Force regarding what to prioritise next.

Tanks
The army badly needs Light Tanks that can be a decisive factor on the battlefield. For now Romania has in its inventory a mix of 76 French FT-17 Renault Light Tanks and 35 Czech AH-IV-R / R-1 Skoda Tankettes. (FT-17 were bought in 1917, and were excellent tanks during the 1920s, being exported by the French to many militaries in the world, from Europe, to China, Japan and the US. They were still acceptable during the 1930s, but no match for the modern models 1936 onwards. The Czech R-1 were rapid and agile tankettes - a category abolished at the beginning of the WWII - were used primarily for reconnaissance purposes, providing protection against enemy infantry units.) We are not able to produce Light Tanks of our own, and the development of models and the production is very expensive for the industrial capacity Romania has at the moment. Except USSR, the Czechs and the Poles, none of the other neighbours, Bulgaria, Hungary and Serbia has tanks in their inventories.
Under this circumstances, the Romanian army:

1. should look for the possibility to buy licences of the most modern Light Tanks from Great Powers like Germany, whenever the possibility arises. In the present conjuncture no one is willing to sell their most modern weapons.
2. To develop the armour technology and the industrial capacity to produce its own competitive Light Armour in a few years time.
3. To avoid investing in Medium Armour, and buy licences instead, because the national economy definitely lacks the Leadership to invest in this research direction.

As long as the revanchist neighbours don't have any armour, we can rely on our armour for superior firepower in case of conflict.

FT-17 Renault Light Tanks
Mil Rom FT-17.png
Mil ft17.jpg



AH-IV-R / R-1 Skoda
Mil CZE Tankette AH-IV-R.png


Armour Tab 16.12.1937
Armour Tab 16.12.37.png


Air Forces

The Romanian Air Forces surpass in number most of their neighbours. The only model the country is producing is a Polish fighter licence IAR PZL P.24. The tactical bombers are imported from England and naval bombers are from Italy (Marchetti S.55). The researchers are working at a modern IAR 37 Reconnaissance and light bomber model, and at the IAR 80 fighter model, a prototype having been tested this year. Hopefully the aviation industry will be able to produce the first fighters in 1938. The main decision taken in 1937 was to invest primarily in aircraft production, and specifically in fighter development because the military experts are expecting the air control to be crucial in the coming conflicts.

The Romanian scientists have researched the Basic Small Fuel Tank, Basic Single Engine Airframe and Basic Aircraft Machine Gun, which will be incorporated in the first IAR 80 squadron to be produced. Air doctrines are now beyond the country's means. Maybe the Government will find an avenue to buy licences for Tactical bombers, since own production models are outdated. The existing fighters are in full process of modernization, but in mid-December the process is not ended. The country will go to war with Hungary basically with the Air Force from 1936.

Firghter Tab 16.12.1937
Fighter tab 16.12.37.png


Romania's focus will be on infantry, artillery (see Artillery tree in the Armour Tab) and Air Forces, i.e. INT. The aircraft are easier to produce for a weak industrial power and Romania has some tradition in the Air field research. Currently the specialists are debating if Romania will be better off with developing an Interceptor model or a Multirole airplane. (What do you think?)
As for the Antitank weapons, they are not a pressing issue as long as Romania doesn't have to fight a Major Power. It looks like that their use is very limited against armies lacking armour, should that situation arise.
 
Hope the strike against Hungary goes well. Has Romania started aligning to anyone yet, or are they going to try to stay out of the main factions?

Until the end of 1937 Romania has faithfully aligned with the Allies. From a game-technical perspective this was necessary to be able to lower the Neutrality/Threat nexus to the point were Romania can DOW on a Hungary aligning with the Axis. If Romania will maintain this course is hard to say because the German pressure for a favourable economic agreement (oil and agricultural products - via strategic Black Soil and Oil Refinery plus starting commercial relations) is huge on Romania. Negotiations will ensue, whereby the entrance in the economic sphere of influence will also change the politics an international relations of the country. If the negotiations, amidst the tensioned atmosphere of the Hungarian war, will conclude positively, than Romania could change its alignment. Should they fail, Romania will stay on the Allied course. I am very curious as well how history will unfold.

;)

Romanian Alignment 16.12.1937
ROM Alignment 16.12.1937.png
 
Interesting breakdown of the state of Light Tank and Aeroplane development.

Currently the specialists are debating if Romania will be better off with developing an Interceptor model or a Multirole airplane. (What do you think?)
This is an interesting one:

Interceptors are the best at fighting other aeroplanes, they're very specialised. They have a relatively short range and use a lot of fuel and supplies (comparatively), but they're very fast. They're not particularly well protected, but they pack a lot of Air to Air firepower (Air Attack), they will shred anything that comes their way that's not an interceptor. (if not hopelessly obsolete) They're absolutely rubbish at shooting at anything that's not in the sky. (soft and hard attack are rubbish)

Multi-Role aeroplanes are a bit of a compromise. They have a pretty long range (close to that of Tactical bombers of a similar vintage), and they're more economical to run, they're also slower, and less effective against enemy aircraft than interceptors. They're more durable than interceptors, pack a little less Air to Air firepower, they will still shred anything that's not an interceptor or a Multi-Role Fighter. (if not hopelessly obsolete) They can actually do some damage on the ground, less than dedicated bombers, but significantly more than interceptors.

If you're building a large air force, you want both: The interceptors to shoot down any and all enemy planes coming your way, and the MR-Fighters to escort bombers and for use over longer distances. In the pacific, for example, Multi-Roles are ideal for island defence, because they can absolutely shred enemy CAGs while having a good range, and being less expensive to run than interceptors. The thing is, getting Multi-roles is 'only' one extra tech, once you've researched it, any Small Aeroplane research you do will apply to both Int and Ftr, so it might be a good long term plan to build some of both, tactical flexibility etc.

Another thing, both for aeroplanes and for light tanks, it might be worth it to think about what you really need from your tanks planes. For example, if you have a relatively good Air Base network, skipping Small Fuel Tank upgrades will make your planes sturdier and faster at the cost of range. For light tanks, skipping L Arm Armour will make your L Arm faster (but even worse on the defensive). These are ways you can get a small edge on the enemy vehicles (which are usually homogeneously researched). If you're manually directing your units, you can usually exploit these small advantages, while avoiding the correlated weaknesses. These differences compound over time, as with each research round, you add to the difference. You can also do other things, like designing your tanks to be exactly as fast as Engineers. (which have a fixed speed). Of course, in the case of L Arm, you might want to get to SP Art, so this might not be viable. On the other hand, if you really want a very fast moving L Arm Divisions, AC and SP R Art are faster when all is said and done, and AC is actually more accessible. Don't pair the light tanks with Engineers though, because you will loose any edge in speed you have due to the fixed 8 kph speed of Eng. If you can get the right licenses, "L Arm, Mec, AC, SP R Art" is probably the fastest combined arms formation in the game.

As for the Antitank weapons, they are not a pressing issue as long as Romania doesn't have to fight a Major Power. It looks like that their use is very limited against armies lacking armour, should that situation arise.
Yes Artillery is a priority over Anti-Tank weapons, you definitely won't have to face any tanks that soon. Might I suggest an alternative path, which could be more interesting than investing in dedicated AT brigades: If you want to have a bomber force on the cheap, you can go for CAS, again it's one extra tech, and then there is the recurring Light bomb tech. (or you can just buy licences). Building CAS instead of Tac allows you to maximise small aircraft practical, as you share practical and most upgrades across Int, Ftr, and CAS. If you want naval bombers, you can always license-build CAG and base them on land.
CAS aren't very good against soft targets (slightly better than Ftr, but miles behind Tac), but against hard targets they're brilliant. CAS instead of spread out AT also means that your flying tank-killers can be rapidly deployed exactly where the enemy tanks are. A possible issue is the short range of CAS, so you might have to build more Airfields.
Another is that they're particularly vulnerable to enemy fighters. You can counter that by pairing several CAS wings with a Ftr wing, making the entire formation a lot more durable in the face of enemy intercepts.

So you're going for the Allies then, that will be interesting to see. Romania, on it's own, facing off against two sparring giants right next door... Looking at other AARs, there is a good chance you'll get lend-lease from the Allies, maybe even some tech sharing (though I wouldn't hold my breath too much on that), and any licenses you may need (the US will have pretty much anything you want on offer, save for H Arm probably. And the British should have a well-filled catalogue too.)
 
On the other hand, if you really want a very fast moving L Arm Divisions, AC and SP R Art are faster when all is said and done, and AC is actually more accessible

Thanks for your exhaustive answer, I'll answer later today to it. What is the advantage of combining L Arm with AC? AC has abysmal stats. And given a division of 5 brigades, which L Arm combinations would be optimal? What role does the Combined Arms bonus play?
 
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Thanks for your exhaustive answer, I'll answer later today to it. What is the advantage of combining L Arm with AC? AC has abysmal stats. And given a division of 5 brigades, which L Arm combinations would be optimal? What role does the Combined A rms bonus play?

The advantage of LArm + AC is simply to build a very fast division which has a little bit of combined arms bonus to boot. The idea being that a very fast division can exploit gaps in the line at maximum speed, allowing you to overrun or encircle the enemy. However the division will not hold up well in heavy combat.
 
And given a division of 5 brigades, which L Arm combinations would be optimal? What role does the Combined Arms bonus play?
For speed: L Armx2, Mec, AC, SP R Art (cheaper) or L Arm, Mecx2, AC, SP R Art. (more of a Mechanised Division with some fast tanks, more expensive, but stronger, especially on the defensive)
If you want versatility, and to minimise terrain penalties: L Arm, Mot, Eng, SP (R) Art, Mot-AA/TD (this is limited to 8 km/h, but has the highest possible combined arms bonus), or L Arm, Motx2, Eng, SP (R) Art / Mot-AA
The biggest possible punch is probably something like: L Arm, Mecx2, TD, SP Art (but that's neither especially quick, nor very good in bad terrain, so you'd be better off substituting the L Arm for Arm)

The combined arms bonus gives your division some extra hitting power based on the fact that you have different brigade types in the same Division working together. The whole is more than the sum of it's parts. In FTM, as in real life, you need some kind of Infantry at the core of the Division for this to work. So, you start with Infantry (any number of brigades), which gives you 10% if it's got any kind of support, and then for each new capability you add to the Division, you get a 5% bonus. Support brigades are placed in groups (colour-coded in the production menu). The maximum combined arms bonus you can get is 30% (40% with a 'Battle Master' Commander, and a little more if you add 'Battle Master' Generals above it in the hierarchy). You get the maximum by picking one in every row:
L Arm / Arm / H Arm / SH Arm
Inf / Gar / Mtn / Mar / Par / Mot / Mec
AC / Eng
Art / SP Art / SP R Art
AA / AT / TD / Mot AA

Combined arms is no the be all end all of division composition though, Armour, piercing attack, soft attack, hard attack, and defensiveness all factor directly into combat. A binary Division usually has an edge on the offensive, and in cases where you fill up the front with binary Divisions, but on the defensive a triangular division will usually be stronger. And then you still have to factor in speed, IC, Manpower, and research.
 
A binary Division usually has an edge on the offensive, and in cases where you fill up the front with binary Divisions, but on the defensive a triangular division will usually be stronger. And then you still have to factor in speed, IC, Manpower, and research.

I'm curious where this comes from. In my experience, a binary division is nearly always inferior to a triangular division unless the enemy is so weak that it doesn't matter. If anything, a binary division ought to be a bit better defensively because you can attach ART + AT to fend off infantry and armored divisions equally well, but the loss of holding power with fewer frontline brigades makes this debatable.

Offensively, the only way I can think of binary divisions being stronger would be as "shock" divisions with 2x line brigade, 2x ART/SPART to deal a lot of damage with the initial strike, but again with only 2x frontline brigades you'll have difficulty sustaining any offensive. You can of course fit more divisions into the combat width but due to stacking penalties this really doesn't matter.
 
I'm curious where this comes from. In my experience, a binary division is nearly always inferior to a triangular division unless the enemy is so weak that it doesn't matter. If anything, a binary division ought to be a bit better defensively because you can attach ART + AT to fend off infantry and armored divisions equally well, but the loss of holding power with fewer front line brigades makes this debatable.
With 'Superior Firepower', you can have Infx3, Art, At, which is an excellent defensive unit. I haven't done extensive analysis on that, but it seems to me that triangular Divisions, with three front-line brigades are stronger on the defensive, than binary Divisions. Infantry brigades seem to wear down less quickly than support brigades. One on one, a triangular Division will hold on longer when attacked, in my experience anyway. You can also hold a front with fewer Divisions using triangular Divisions.

Offensively, the only way I can think of binary divisions being stronger would be as "shock" divisions with 2x line brigade, 2x ART/SPART to deal a lot of damage with the initial strike, but again with only 2x frontline brigades you'll have difficulty sustaining any offensive. You can of course fit more divisions into the combat width but due to stacking penalties this really doesn't matter.
Offensively, the advantage goes to binary Divisions imo, but not always. It definitely depends on which support brigades you use, as you say, shock is what you want. As a human player, binary Divisions also allow you to concentrate even more firepower on a small area of the front to force a breakthrough. Moreover, having binary divisions usually means having more, smaller, divisions allowing you to more easily create encirclements and the like, than with fewer, larger, divisions. (This was actually the reason the Italians instituted binary infantry Divisions. They thought that smaller Divisions would be more mobile, and that they would be able to more easily overrun, encircle etc. enemy formations. The whole theory went out the window in WW2 as motorised triangular formations were a lot faster and better at creating encirclements and overrunning defeated enemy units.)

Of course, I could be wrong. I'd have to do more tests with binary Divisions to be sure. I usually go for triangular Divisions, especially when using the AI to fight the war for me...
 
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With 'Superior Firepower', you can have Infx3, Art, At, which is an excellent defensive unit. I haven't done extensive analysis on that, but it seems to me that triangular Divisions, with three front-line brigades are stronger on the defensive, than binary Divisions. Infantry brigades seem to wear down less quickly than support brigades. One on one, a triangular Division will hold on longer when attacked, in my experience anyway. You can also hold a front with fewer Divisions using triangular Divisions.

Of course with Superior Firepower everything changes. The thing is that there's not really any mechanic tied to binary vs. trinary that would dictate an offense/defense split. If a triangular division would hold longer on the defensive, it would also hold out longer on the offensive, and conversely if a binary division would do more damage to defeat the enemy quickly on offense the same would hold for defense. I may be missing something in the mechanics but that's my understanding.

Offensively, the advantage goes to binary Divisions imo, but not always. It definitely depends on which support brigades you use, as you say, shock is what you want. As a human player, binary Divisions also allow you to concentrate even more firepower on a small area of the front to force a breakthrough. Moreover, having binary divisions usually means having more, smaller, divisions allowing you to more easily create encirclements and the like, than with fewer, larger, divisions. (This was actually the reason the Italians instituted binary infantry Divisions. They thought that smaller Divisions would be more mobile, and that they would be able to more easily overrun, encircle etc. enemy formations. The whole theory went out the window in WW2 as motorised triangular formations were a lot faster and better at creating encirclements and overrunning defeated enemy units.)

I'd actually look for the opposite on an offensive, as you want to sustain the offensive and hold ground with infantry which means you want the longer staying power of triangular divisions. Of course to start an offensive shock tactics work well which is where the binary comes in for concentrating firepower to effect a breakthrough, but even then I'd want >80% trinary divisions pushing the front with motorized and armored units following up the binary divisions to exploit and encircle.

I would also note that in HoI3, having smaller binary divisions actually means, compared to triangular, either having more divisions but weaker (e.g. 2x INF + 1x support) or fewer divisions with more firepower (2x INF + 2x support), because the support brigades cost more IC-days than the infantry brigades. So Triangular divisions provide the balance between cost and general combat power unless you have a severe manpower shortage.

Of course, Romania being a minor has a severe manpower shortage, so it may make sense to prefer 2x INF + 2x support divisions to get as many guns in the field with the available IC as possible without losing the ability to reinforce.
 
If a triangular division would hold longer on the defensive, it would also hold out longer on the offensive, and conversely if a binary division would do more damage to defeat the enemy quickly on offense the same would hold for defense. I may be missing something in the mechanics but that's my understanding.
That makes sense. I think I figured out where this idea came from. I may have retained some assumptions from the defensiveness-toughness era of HOI3. In the current mechanics, you're probably right that it doesn't matter either way. But with defensiveness-toughness actually working as intended, Infantry has less toughness, but more defensiveness, than a decent support Brigade. Making a triangular Division more effective and longer lasting on the defence, and a binary Division longer lasting on the offense. Looking into it, it seems that toughness-defensiveness is definitely broken (having no impact to speak off), and what replaced it made no real distinction between offense and defence.
 
What do mean binary and triangular divisions? Being relatively new to the forums, makes some terms hard to understand. From your texts I deduced binary means combat brigades (2 or 3 x 3.000 soldiers like Infantry, or Armour) plus 1 type of support brigade (x1.000), while triangular divisions mean 2 or 3 combat brigades with 2 types of support divisions (Art + AT for example). Is it so?
 
What do mean binary and triangular divisions? Being relatively new to the forums, makes some terms hard to understand. From your texts I deduced binary means combat brigades (2 or 3 x 3.000 soldiers like Infantry, or Armour) plus 1 type of support brigade (x1.000), while triangular divisions mean 2 or 3 combat brigades with 2 types of support divisions (Art + AT for example). Is it so?
You're not far off. Divisions are made up of front line brigades and support brigades. A binary Division has 2 front line brigades (3.000 strong x2). A triangular Division has 3 front line brigades. (3.000 strong x3). To that you can add any number of support brigades without changing the core of the Division.
Triangular Division examples: (Infx3), (Infx3, Art, AT), (Arm, Motx2, SP Art, TD), (Parx3), etc.
Binary Division examples: (Infx2), (Infx2, Eng), (Infx2, Art, Eng, AT), (Arm, Mot, SP Art, Eng, Mot AA), etc.
In HOI3 terms, with superior firepower, a binary Division can have up to 3 support brigades, while a triangular one can have up to 2 support brigades. IRL, the sky is the limit...

Square Division, with 4 front line brigades, are also relatively common, and they do have some use in the game.
I've also recently learned that Australian army did experiment with Division structures with 5 combat brigades. See @Bullfilter and his Talking Turkey AAR for first hand information on that.
 
I've also recently learned that Australian army did experiment with Division structures with 5 combat brigades. See @Bullfilter and his Talking Turkey AAR for first hand information on that.
Almost: in game I have a five brigade div structure as standard, but they are mainly tri and square divisions, though the mountain divs are five mountain brigades.

The RL Australian Army ‘pentropic’ division experiment in the early 1960s did away with brigade HQs altogether and had five Infantry Battalion based battle groups instead. It was found to be impractical because the bn HQs had too much to handle, being required to act like mini or pseudo brigade HQs. The experiment was aborted after just a couple of years, and became a byword in our army for the disastrous implementation of out-there theories in practice. :D

Great organisational debate above @nuclearslurpee and @roverS3 - you’ve gone more into this stuff scientifically than I ever have! :cool: