Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Black Death 1347-1351

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
unmerged(1057)

unmerged(1057)

Disinherited Knight
Feb 22, 2001
4.275
0
theclubis.mine.nu
There should be an event killing off about 50% of the population in these years.

Maybe it should be worse at some parts of Europe.

It would be challenging if it also killed 50% of the kings, dukes and counts at the same time. Some of the fiefs may be withouth heirs altogether.

So Paradox don´t forget it!
 
I don't think they will forget. It will be interresting to see how they plan to model the plague(s). There were other, smaller, plagues before and after the "Black" one too...

Were many rulers killed by the Black plague, btw?
 
The plague was an equal opportunity killer. In Avignon nine bishops were killed, King Alfonso XI of Castile succumbed, and peasants died wherever they lay.

Though the plague had, for the most part, ceased less than ten years after it started, it killed nearly one third of the European population. In many towns the dead outnumbered the living.

Bodies piled in the streets faster than nuns, monks, and relatives could bury them. Many bodies were interred in mass graves, overflowing with dead, or dumped into nearby rivers.

Domesticated cats and dogs, along with wolves, dug dead out of shallow graves, and sometimes attacked those still living. Many animals did either from plague or lack of care. Henry Knighton noted more than 5,000 dead sheep in one field alone.
 
Right, even His Holiness Pope Clement almost died from it. In a medieval version of 'fumigation', he smoked the entire papal palace at Avignon with aromatic herbs to 'drive away the foul humours' which they thought might be causing the plague. He recovered, and of course it was attributed to divine intervention, but more likely the old git drove the rats off with all that vile smoke. :p
 
Yes the Black Death was very important event for most of Europe. Some regions were hit more by it than others. I think that France and Italy had the largest % of casualties where parts of Poland were almost not effected.
 
The plague came to Europe in the fall of 1347. By 1350 it had largely passed out of western Europe. In the space of two years, one out of every three people was dead. Nothing like that has happened before or since.

These general numbers disguise the uneven nature of the epidemic. Some areas suffered little, others suffered far more. Here are some examples.

Between 45% and 75% of Florence died in a single year. 1/3 died in the first six months. Its entire economic system collapsed for a time.

In Venice, which kept excellent records, 60% died over the course of 18 months: 500-600 a day at the height.

Certain professions suffered higher mortality, especially those whose duties brought them into contact with the sick--doctors and clergy. In Montpellier, only seven of 140 Dominican friars survived. In Perpignan, only one of nine physicians survived, and two of 18 barber-surgeons.

The death rate at Avignon was fifty percent and was even higher among the clergy. One-third of the cardinals died. Clement VI had to consecrate the Rhone River so corpses could be sunk in it, for there was neither time nor room to bury them.

Long-term population loss is also instructive. Urban populations recovered quickly, in some cases within a couple of years, through immigration from the countryside because of increased opportunities in the cities. Rural population though, recovered itself slowly, for peasants left their farms for the cities.

Hardest hit were special groups, such as the friars, who took a couple of generations to recover. In many areas, pre-plague population levels were not reached until the 1500s; in a few, not until the 1600s.

This is one reason why the Black Death marks a dividing line between the central Middle Ages, with medieval culture in full bloom and at its greatest strength, and the later Middle Ages. The later period was one of chronically reduced population.
 
Vurry nice encapsulation, Wasa (See what kind of talent we have on the EU RPG Thread? Come check us out! *shameless plug). ;)
 
Originally posted by Havard
I don't think they will forget. It will be interresting to see how they plan to model the plague(s). There were other, smaller, plagues before and after the "Black" one too...

Were many rulers killed by the Black plague, btw?
Click to expand...

Exactly two - The King of Castile and the Prince of Moscow. That's a much lower percentage than the population at large, probably due to the nobility's relative isolation from the unwashed masses and a slightly better and cleaner standard of living. The 50% mortality rate among the nobility that Wasa proposes is way off the mark.
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by Wasa

Long-term population loss is also instructive. Urban populations recovered quickly, in some cases within a couple of years, through immigration from the countryside because of increased opportunities in the cities. Rural population though, recovered itself slowly, for peasants left their farms for the cities.

Hardest hit were special groups, such as the friars, who took a couple of generations to recover. In many areas, pre-plague population levels were not reached until the 1500s; in a few, not until the 1600s.

This is one reason why the Black Death marks a dividing line between the central Middle Ages, with medieval culture in full bloom and at its greatest strength, and the later Middle Ages. The later period was one of chronically reduced population.
Click to expand...

Also it created a massive shift of economic power. Labour even largely unskilled one became a prime commodity which had some far going consequences.:)
 
The only thing which saved most of the nobility was a (slightly) better standard of hygiene and their refusal to live side by side with vermin such as the rats which carried the fleas which carried the plague. :) And the two mentioned above are, true, the only 'princely' noteables to pass due to the Black Death, but score upon score of lesser nobility bit the dust, including those such as one of the daughters of Edward III (her name escapes me, ATM) who had access to the same rat-free environment as the crowned heads of state.
 
BTW, for a marvelous look into the Black Death and its demographic consequences, check out Barbara Tuchman's masterpiece (one amongst many), 'A Distant Mirror'. It's also fantastic for those interested in the 14th Century and the beginnings of the Hundred Years War.
 
Originally posted by Pomerania Prince
Yes the Black Death was very important event for most of Europe. Some regions were hit more by it than others. I think that France and Italy had the largest % of casualties where parts of Poland were almost not effected.
Click to expand...
Yup, it's almost strange, Black death come through mediterraen and Balkans, moved north into Germany and England, then passed to Scandinavia and northern Rus principalities (Novgorod, Muscovy)

Basically, large circle around Poland, divine intervention?:D
 
More like God fatenning up the Polish calf. It does spend, pretty much, a consistent 300 year span getting carved up every which way. :D
 
Originally posted by Demetrios
Exactly two - The King of Castile and the Prince of Moscow. That's a much lower percentage than the population at large, probably due to the nobility's relative isolation from the unwashed masses and a slightly better and cleaner standard of living. The 50% mortality rate among the nobility that Wasa proposes is way off the mark.
Click to expand...

Which was the Prince of Moscow at the time? Ivan II? Semyon the Proud? Dmitry Donskoy?
Also, wasn't it Grand Prince at that time or was it later?

Bye, The Larch.
 
Originally posted by The Larch


Which was the Prince of Moscow at the time? Ivan II? Semyon the Proud? Dmitry Donskoy?
Also, wasn't it Grand Prince at that time or was it later?

Bye, The Larch.
Click to expand...

Semen the Proud acceded the throne in 1340 and died 1353. I guess he's the best candidate I can come up with.
 
Originally posted by BRYCON316
There should also be an event where the Genoese reject the first ship that was known to carry the plague. If the Genoese would have done so, the plague wouldn't have spread as quickly, and maybe some more areas of Europe would have been spared the plague.
Click to expand...

Who's to say they wouldn't just sail to the next port? ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back