Brainstorming thread for older mech's Chassis Quirks/Unique Systems

[RecklessCaution]

So in the runup to Heavy Metal's release, @Icewraith had a first pass at cooking up some ideas for it for mechs that he considered to need some help to compete against the new mechs, and @Hobbes__ thought of something for the Cicada, after Icewraith's initial ideas for the Cicada-2A were considered overpowered in conjunction with COIL weaponry. I'm thinking it'd be good if we can get the community to collaborate on some ideas, get one mod done by the community as a whole and maybe some options on it if we can't come to an agreement on a couple mechs, instead of a whole bunch of chassis quirk mods, all incompatible.

Here's the ideas:

Icewraith's first pass on the whole roster:

I think a lot of mechs don’t need quirks to be competitive. I’d say the Orion, Black Knight, Cataphract, Cicada, Commando, Javelin, Catapult, and Awesome need some love.

Most of those share a weight and/or speed class with a new mech. The last two share a niche (PPC/LRM boat) with the Warhammer/Marauder and Archer. I initially had the Grasshopper on there, but I don’t think it needs any help with its already superior hardpoint allocation. The Vindicator and Blackjack are also borderline.

The -K2 and Awesome Q could use a -15% PPC heat quirk. That knocks PPC heat down to almost exactly TT levels, and makes them specifically PPC boats in a different way than the Warhammer.

Awesome 8T: Laser guidance system. Extra 5% missile hit chance for each laser you hit the target with this round. Consider -5% missile hit chance if you don’t hit a direct fire target with any lasers (by not firing them or missing) Does not affect indirect fire.

The missile Catapults should probably get something Jump Jet related, like slightly longer jump distance or half heat+1 when jumping. The jets are the Catapult’s big thing over the Archer. Also possibly 10-20% lower heat penalty on desert/Martian/lunar maps (hot maps) for all variants. Something something rounded hull surface area radiant heat dissipation advantage.

The Orion should gain +5-10% to hit when using the Multishot ability in the gunnery tree, or give the Multishot ability at a -10% to hit if the pilot doesn’t have it. With many weapons systems with different ranges, the Orion’s targeting and tracking system excels at handling multiple targets. Also suitable for the Zeus and Centurions.

The Jagermech should ignore one evasion pip when firing on a target whose last form of movement involved jumping. It’s a side effect of the anti-aircraft suite.

The Black Knight should have an extra +10 overheat/+20 shutdown threshold. That should help it stand out more from the Grasshopper as an energy boat. Alternatively, energy weapons generate a flat 1, 2 (LL) or 3 (PPC) less heat.

The Cataphract should be tough. +10% DR in cover or when guarded, max is still 60% DR.

The Commando should grant the Sensor Lock ability at 66% range (and half effect, -1 chevron and debuff) or (125% range might screw with detection but I like the concept and) stronger effect (-3 chevrons, 3 stacks of sensor debuff) if the pilot already has Sensor Lock. Consider + 10% extra DR (max 60%) while in cover. Alternatively instead of DR ignore most terrain movement penalties (woods, rubble) and half movement reduction from water. The perfect mech for skulking in the bushes and spotting for your allies.

Javelin: +2 missile damage. +5 laser damage. (Possibly only at short range?) It has to compete with the Firestarter at the same speed with fewer hardpoints, less tonnage, and lower armor so it should hit harder. Improved targeting system minimizes beam diffusion and optimizes missile paths for maximum damage.

Spider: Generates 1 extra evasion Chevron when jumping. +10% to hit if last movement action was jumping. Yes it has anemic firepower and disintegrates from a solid hit, but it’s even more agile in the air than other mechs and when you decide to use that anemic firepower you’ll probably hit.

Cicada, Urbanmech: Ignores DR from cover. (Not additional DR from Bulwark or Guarded) Breaching Shots gain +10% to hit. Lower/no penalty for partial line of sight. Targeting systems are optimized to track and hit targets partially obscured by trees or buildings. Equally good for light mech hunting or sniping.

Locust: Widen firing arc by 30 degrees. It’s just that maneuverable. Increase short ranges (but not max ranges, do increase support max range) by 25%.

Dragon: add energy hardpoints so we can make a Grand Dragon if we want to. IIRC it’s already got a huge melee quirk on it. +5 AC/5 damage, +10 PPC stability damage.

Victor: 50% +1Jump Jet heat. +20% AC/20 autocannon magazine storage. The magazine storage would also be a nice little buff to the AC Hunchback.

Battlemaster: as another command vehicle, the same bonus as the Marauder.

Highlander: -15 DFA damage, no extra weight/crits.

Fast Banshees: reduced terrain penalties from rubble and forest. (Full penalty for water)

AC Blackjack: +10 AC/2 damage

Both Blackjacks: 10% reduced stability damage taken.

Vindicators: +10 PPC stability damage. Multishot targeting system as per Orion.

Trebuchet: +12% LRM/ SRM missile ammunition storage.

Crab: -20% hot environment heat sink penalty reduction.

Enforcer: 50%+1 Jump Jet heat.

Cyclopses, Thunderbolts: 20% melee damage reduction. Even for their considerable tonnage those mechs are bulky and unusually resistant to typical battlemech melee crushing damage. Not effective against anything equipped with a hatchet (works against other arm mods).

The Panther, as the only 4 speed mech in its initiative class, arguably doesn’t need the help.

Quickdraw: 50%+1 Jump Jet heat. +5 Overheat/+10 Shutdown.

That got a lot more complicated than I intended it to be originally. I wasn’t going to address Lights and then I thought about what the Phoenix Hawk could do, so I ended up addressing the speed 6 lights. A little extra overheat wouldn’t be terrible on the Jenner to keep it from being overshadowed by the Javelin.

Then his go at the Cicada-2A:

Those mechs don’t need quirks! The point of quirks is to 1: give people more incentives to use designs that get hurt by the construction math/initiative breakpoints/hardpoint assignments and 2: differentiate between similar mechs with similar tonnages and hardpoints.

Also, I had an interesting quirk idea for the fast Cicada. It’s two parts.

1: The fast Cicada removes two evasion pips when it attacks a target. (I have no fluff mechanic justification for this ability at this time, any more so than I do for any mech becoming easier to hit because someone else shot at it recently. But the Cicada gets to be twice as good at it.)

2: The fast Cicada has an on-use ability called “seize the initiative”. On the next turn, the Cicada acts one initiative faster and acts first in that phase. It generates the maximum possible number of evasion chevrons regardless of how far it actually moves. This round it can make a called shot against a target as if it were shutdown. The next round the Cicada’s initiative returns to normal, but it is not eligible to act in its normal initiative phase until at least one enemy unit has acted, if there are any enemy units that act in the phase. Four round cooldown. (Possibly five)

The fast Cicada is supposed to be a light mech hunter, and this toolkit should make it pretty dangerous to most lights. If you catch a light in a bad position, you can take two more pips off it with an attack and use Seize the Initiative, which lets you move first in what is normally the light mech phase (or later phases if you reserve). Then next round you can run behind the target and make a called shot against its rear, which lets you make the best use of your limited weaponry.

It fills up your evasion pips for three reasons: 1, COIL synergy; 2, if you don’t need to move much to be in a good position to attack you won’t immediately be gunned down; and 3, you now need to make it through two rounds of attacks from higher initiative mechs and one from everyone else. The other cost you pay for using seize the initiative is that at least one mech that moves in your normal phase gets to take a shot at you before you can move again.

Is this set of quirks good enough for people to consider using the fast Cicada when other options are available?

Then Hobbes__' go at giving the Cicada-2A a role that wasn't just 'bigger Locust':

Another possible alternative:
"Nevertheless the company designed their 'Mech to compete directly with the Locust by making it just as fast but twice as large, allowing the Cicada to carry slightly better weaponry and give it an edge in physical combat (...)"

What about giving the Cicada extra melee damage?

Any thoughts? Do you think Icewraith's right, and quirks shouldn't be done for all mechs, or are you itching to give the Atlas II something (my build uses all slots, so I don't know where you'd fit it)?

Interested to see what the community does with quirks - throw some ideas up, let's get a collaborative effort going!

 

[Volkite]

Black Knight - Cooling Jacket and Ablative armour. Right Arm
-15% heat for PPC weapons, and +25 armour to the location.

Centurion - Ablative armour. Left Arm and Torso.

Vindicator - same PPC cooling jacket as Black Knight. Right Arm.

Orion - Command 'mech module. Head
Improves initiative by 1 step.

Jagermech - Entrenching systems. Legs
As long as the 'mech is stationary, it gains +2 accuracy and +10% damage with weapons.

Cataphract - Frankenmech structure. All locations.
Reduces incoming crit chance by 5%, can take a crit instead of other mounted gear in that location.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I’ll take a shot and recommend a quirk for the Coordinator’s very own Dragon BattleMech.

The Dragon already has better than expected Melee Damage, to that I’d like to see a minor Stability Bonus (maybe a value of 20) and a +2 Melee Defence added. The Special Equipment could be called the Master Melee Terminal.

 

[BrianDavion]

I'd give the dragon something that improves it's init by +1. something that EFFECTIVELY makes it act like a medium mech. it's basicly a over grown medium anyway

 

[ronhatch]

Ideally, I would like to see as many of the ideas get an implementation as possible... no matter how far out there they are, as long as they aren't too hard to code. What I'm thinking is that if the code is written, actually installing them in mechs is the simpler part of the process and we can write instructions for how to customize the mech quirks to taste.

 

[ronhatch]

FWIW, I think all the mechs should have quirks if you're going back and adding them to any of the old mechs. Since which mechs need help is not exactly something everyone agrees on... for example, I would never use a Panther for anything once I have enough of the heavier mechs with that movement profile.

And wow... I hadn't noticed that Cicada quote when I first read through that discussion. "[A]llowing the Cicada to carry slightly better weaponry", huh? I hadn't realized the fluff was quite that full of - well, something that would get censored on this forum. As the Locust 1E demonstrates, the engine in the Cicada 2C is so heavy that the Locust actually has more tonnage available for weapons. (160 rated engine in the Locust weighs 4 tons... the 320 the Cicada needs for that speed weighs 22.5 tons... add in the larger gyro and heavier structure and it ends up using exactly 20.5 tons more... everything the increase in size made available and another half ton for good measure.)

 

[Jade_Rook]

I would like to see as many mechs get a quirk as possible. I don't think all of them need it, but the new equipment is powerful enough that I would like to see all the mechs get something special to help them stand out.

A few of my ideas:

Firestarter: +1 ammo for all Flamers
Quickdraw: Improved stability or ignore terrain penalties
Dragon: I like the improved melee defense idea
Awesome: -10% energy weapon heat
Atlas: 10% damage reduction
Urbanmech: Increased firing arc

 

[Rubidium]

I'd approach it from a role perspective. The Catapult, for instance, competes directly with the Archer as "Heavy Missile Boat with additional close-in weapons." The extra tonnage and the new quirk make the Catapult, which was previously quite good, effectively obsolete. So, since the Archer has "concentrated fire (and thus damage)" as its quirk, lets give the Catapult a slightly different aspect of LRMness to focus on. How about a small bonus to stability damage or critical hit rate (I'd want to check the balance before deciding on which one)? That leaves the Archer as the "kill it with missiles (especially good against vehicles)" and the Catapult as "missiles support the rest of the lance" (either by making knockdowns easier, or by making it better at exploiting holes that others have opened up), giving both potentially useful but different roles within the subcategory of "missile boat".

Fluff it as a high speed launch system or penetrative coating or something like that.

 

[BARBOSA (Aries)]

I think if the goal of this mod is finish the quirk giving job HBS started, all mechs should have their own quirk, since HBS gave quirks to all HM mechs, even those didn´t need help due to already having good tonnage/engine match, such as the Annihilator or the Marauder.

And as done by HBS all variants of the same mech should get the same quirk as well.

 

[Icewraith]

I think if the goal of this mod is finish the quirk giving job HBS started, all mechs should have their own quirk, since HBS gave quirks to all HM mechs, even those didn´t need help due to already having good tonnage/engine match, such as the Annihilator or the Marauder.

And as done by HBS all variants of the same mech should get the same quirk as well.

I think having different mech variants have different quirks is good in some cases. For example, the Phoenix Hawk K having the JJ quirk makes no sense, the stock design specifically drops the JJ!

After reading the dev diary, my accuracy based ideas probably need revision. Implementing the quirks is also tricky. My initial thought was adding a 5th CT slot to most designs and adding 1 slot fixed quirk equipment.

That would prevent most quirks being collectible via the CT destruction bug. Also since the quirks wouldn’t impact existing mech designs they shouldn’t be quite as good as the HM quirks. (They shouldn’t overshadow or duplicate the HM mechs!)

If people really want all mechs to have quirks, to guide the strength of suggested quirks the following general classes exist:

A. Same initiative+speed as a HM mech

B. Strictly worse at same role as HM mech because of HM quirk

C. Noticeably Worse tonnage / hardpoints than mechs in same speed + initiative group

D. Worse initiative than most mechs at same speed

E. Travel size (least armor/structure/tonnage for speed in a big speed tier)

F. Incorporates Lostech (extra Free tonnage is already its own quirk)

G. Stock Jumpjets (I think mechs designed with Jets in mind should have slight advantages using them)

H. Great Hardpoints (this mech already basically has a quirk)

J. Doppelgänger (you can make a bunch of mechs do what this one does, consider very slight quirks that affect stock equipment if the mech needs no quirk otherwise)

K. In-universe flavor/use that quirk would make sense for.

M. Stock weapons load generates significantly more heat now than it did in TT.

For example, if you made a Venn diagram for the Catapult K2, it would lie at the intersection of groups A, B, C, J, and M. It needs some love.

By comparison, the 732b Highlander is in groups F, G, and K. So it should still get a DFA reduction like the other Highlanders, but nothing more.

The Awesome Q is definitely in groups B, C, J, and M.

Final note: I think +armor/structure quirks and flat individual initiative changes aren’t great ways to go. Also, most quirks should be noticeable when fighting the AI (so tweaking morale abilities isn’t a great quirk, for instance).

 

[GFoto]

I would not worry too much about the HBS HM quirks when trying to come up with a consistent system to add quirks to all mechs as some of them don't really make much sense lore-wise. For example, the JJ damage bonus the Phoenix Hawk gets doesn't really have a base in lore, in fact it is specifically mentioned that the PH JJs were further developed into vectored thrust JJs for the Spider Some sort of sensor bonus definitely would make more sense because of the Tek BattleCom. In fact I am thinking of adding the +jj damage (not that it needs it, but it's a nice way to make it even more distinct) to the Grasshopper and adding the Trutrak/BattleCom to the PH (dialcaliper has already done that for the royal version). The TR 3028 also lists quirks, interpreting some of those in game terms might be a good place to start.

 

[MasterBLB]

About jumpjets, keep in mind vanilla game does not support currently jumping over ~13 hexes (300m).

 

[Hopalong]

I made up this list for my game awhile back so it might not be up to date. It's based on adding Table top style Quirks to the PC game. It should all be simple chassisdef edits of the json or adding a piece of Fixed equipment to get the result. Not all variants get the Quirk listed, its based on the TRO text.

Positive Quirks

Anti-Aircraft
The Anti-Aircraft Quirk upgrades a units longest range weapon to a 1+ model. Units-Hatchetman, JagerMech, Lancelot, Longbow, Rifleman, Rifleman2.

Anti-Infantry
The Anti-Infantry Quirk upgrades a units anti-personnel weapons to a 1+ model. Units- Spider SDR-5K, Stinger STG-3R, Vulcan.

Battlefist
The Battlefist Quirk applies a -1 to a units melee attacks. Units-Archer, Atlas, Atlas II, Awesome, Griffin, Hunchback, Shadow Hawk.
(I have universal Melee setting at 0.65 right now)

Combat Computer (Equipment that you see)
The Combat Computer Quirk decreases a units heat level by 6 each round. Units- Stalker STK-3F.

Command 'Mech (Equipment that you see)
The Command 'Mech Quirk provides a unit with +1 initiative. Units-Archer, Atlas, Atlas II, BattleMaster, BL-6b-KNT, Cataphract CTF-0X, Imp, King Crab, Marauder, Marauder II, Mongoose, Phoenix Hawk, Wolverine.

Cowl
The Cowl Quirk increases a units head armor by 15 points. Units-Cyclops, Dragon DRG-1C, Warhammer WHM-6D.

Easy to Pilot
The Easy to Pilot Quirk increases the stability of a unit to 1 weight class above it. Units-Chameleon, Crockett, Wolfhound.
(All my Mechs have individual stability for each tonnage.)

Improved Communications (Equipment that you see)
The Improved Communications Quirk increases a units Resolve generated by 1. Units-Hermes II, Phoenix Hawk, Rifleman, Sentinel, Valkyrie, Wolverine.

Improved Sensors
The Improved Sensors Quirk adds 60m to a units sensor range. Units-Ostsol.
(I got rid of some Mechs that didn’t seem very balanced, like the Ostscout.)

Narrow-Low Profile (Equipment that you see)
The Narrow-Low Profile Quirk adds +1 to hit this unit. Units-Dragon, Falcon, Grand Dragon, Lancelot, Locust, Marauder, Marauder II, Ostroc, Ostsol, UrbanMech, Vulcan.

Quad Bonus
The Quad Bonus Quirk adds 15m to a units walk distance and adds 15m to its sprint distance. Units-Goliath, Scorpion.
(I adjusted my hexes to 15m)

Reinforced Legs
The Reinforced Legs Quirk applies a -1 to a units Death From Above (DFA) attack, and reduces self-damage to a unit by 25% when performing a DFA attack. Units-Highlander.

Stable
The Stable Quirk provides a unit with the stability of a unit 2 weight classes above it. Units-Dragon, Grand Dragon.

Negative Quirks

Cramped Cockpit
The Cramped Cockpit Quirk decreases the stability of a unit to 1 weight class below it. Units-Assassin, Locust, Stinger, Wolverine.

No-Minimal Arms
The No-Minimal Arms Quirk adds +1 to melee attacks. Units-Catapult, Champion, Cicada, Firefly, Flea, Hoplite, Hornet, Jenner, Locust, Longbow, Raven, Stalker, UrbanMech.

Poor Life Support (Equipment that you see)
The Poor Life Support Quirk decreases the amount of injuries that a Mechwarrior can sustain by 1. Units-Assassin ASN-21

Unbalanced
The Unbalanced Quirk provides the stability of a unit 2 weight classes below it. Units-Javelin.

Weak Head Armor
The Weak Head Armor Quirk decreases a unit head armor by 5 points. Units-BattleMaster, Catapult.

Weak Legs
The Weak Legs Quirk applies a +1 to a units Death From Above (DFA) attack, and increases self-damage to a unit by 25% when performing a DFA attack. Units-Locust, Whitworth.

 

[whymakemedothis]

I've spent my Sunday afternoon putting together a mod that does this for myself. I took the approach that not every mech needs a quirk. Here is what I ended up with.

Black Knight - Lance Command Mod
+2 hit for lance mates
improved called shots

Quickdraw - Articulated Ankle Actuators x2
-20% received stability damage

Jagermech - Ballistic Targeting Algorithms
+20% ballistic weapon damage
improved called shots

Banshee - Shaped Battle Fists x2
+2 melee hit
+40 melee stability damage

Cataphract - Durable Construction
-10% received damage

Locust - Evasive Silhouette
+2 bonus evasion on move

Zeus - Long Range Targeting Suite
improved LRM clustering
-2 long range penalty

Urbanmech - Low Profile
+2 Hit Defense

Battlemaster - Lance Command Mod
+10% weapon damage for lance mates
improved called shots

Awesome - Improved Cooling Sleeves
-10% heat build up
+10% energy weapon damage

Commando - Rapid Response Actuators
can move after shooting if it has not moved yet

Spider - Recon Suite
+10 resolve gain per turn

Highlander - Reinforced Legs x2
-20 DFA self damage
+20 DFA damage

Catapult - Siege Suite
+35% weapon stability damage

Dragon - Squat Profile
+1 Hit Defense
+40 max stability

Victor - Advanced Trajectory Computer
+1 bonus evasion on move
+20% ballistic weapon damage

Cicada - Drive Train
+2 initiative

 

[GFoto]

Really like some of those and I may steal them for my rebalance mod, I've just finished up with weapons and am working on quirks now, so far I have:

Awesome Q: Energy Distribution System (CT, 1 slot, 0 tons, basically a tweaked version of the Annihilator quirk): Reroutes power from engine to weapons/gyros for siege/turret operations (TR 3028 mentions that the Awesome excels in those roles):

+ 10% Energy weapon dmg.,
+ 40 Stability.

Jagermech: Garret D2j TTS (H, 1 slot, 0 tons, identical to Rifleman's Rangefinder Suite).

Marauder: Dalban HiRez TTS (LT, 3 slots, 0 tons):
+ 2 Accuracy
+ Called Shots

I would like to add an "ignores evasion pips" quirk to the Rifleman and/or Jagermech to simulate their AA tracking, but I don't know how, can anyone please let me know, or at least provide a relevant link? So far I've acquired my limited modding skills by studying other peoples' mods.

 

[whymakemedothis]

@GFoto the following is lifted straight from the Assassins quirk json so should do what you want.

"statisticData" : {
                "appliesEachTick" : false,
                "effectsPersistAfterDestruction" : false,
                "statName" : "EvasivePipsIgnored",
                "operation" : "Float_Add",
                "modValue" : "3",
                "modType" : "System.Single",
                "additionalRules" : "NotSet",
                "targetCollection" : "Weapon",
                "targetWeaponCategory" : "NotSet",
                "targetWeaponType" : "NotSet",
                "targetAmmoCategory" : "NotSet",
                "targetWeaponSubType" : "NotSet"
            },

You can get all the DLC data from the github link at the bottom of the Mod Support Readme Documentation thread at the top of the mod forum.

 

[GFoto]

@GFoto the following is lifted straight from the Assassins quirk json so should do what you want.
......

You can get all the DLC data from the github link at the bottom of the Mod Support Readme Documentation thread at the top of the mod forum.

Thanks!

 

[Icewraith]

Is there a way to do this without adding equipment? Some things equipment makes sense, but it does not for others.

For instance, if I want an Atlas to debuff all enemies within line of sight with -5% to hit (fear itself is your enemy), that shouldn’t go away until the mech is dead, not because you crit the intimidate slot.

 

[BARBOSA (Aries)]

Make it a head slot equip (skull face). An atlas with a hole in the head is less intimidating

 

[Icewraith]

Make it a head slot equip (skull face). An atlas with a hole in the head is less intimidating

It’s intentionally not strong enough to be worth the head slot, though.