I'd make an exception for variants with different speeds, since that already makes a massive difference in how good the variants are, but otherwise I agree.
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How about a +1 initiative for both cicadas and the dragon? This way they they can be the oversized lights and medium they are
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Awesome Q
Quirk:-5 ppc heat, +4 heat damage
-5sppc Heat, +1 heat damage
Space mech quirk: Passive Radiator
LT/RT 0 tons 1 slot
Reduce mech heat by 7.5 % at start of turn. (15% with both side torsos intact)
Mechs: All Catapults, Crab, Jenner, Stalker?
Victor: Close assault system
(Base off Phoenix Hawk JJ)
1 Ton, 1 Crit, replaces 2 of Victor’s JJ,
+5% JJ distance per system
-5% JJ heat per system
+50% Crit Chance after jump. (Don’t steal the Phawk’s damage bonus thunder or full jump distance)
(Note that this isn’t 100% chance to Crit, it doubles whatever the Crit chance is with both systems active)
Grasshopper: Predator Thrust System
Jump/Jump heat, tonnage/space as Victor
Ignore 7.5% Damage Reduction per unit after jump. (Don’t steal the Warhammer’s 20% damage bonus)
Need to figure out an alternative to the accuracy bonus on multi-trac (intended for Orion, Centurion, possibly Vindicator and Shadowhawk, need to come up with something better for the poor Zeus)
+10% damage when firing at 2 targets, +15% for 3?
Ideally the equipment would grant Multishot if the pilot doesn’t have it and give the bonus if the pilot does have Multishot, but not sure how easy that is to achieve. Otherwise the equipment would just grant the bonus and a pilot without multishot is just SOL. What I don’t want is a mech that gives better Multishot to any pilot.
The Zeus seriously needs something better though, since it already compares poorly to the Orion.
Quirk:-5 ppc heat, +4 heat damage
-5sppc Heat, +1 heat damage
Space mech quirk: Passive Radiator
LT/RT 0 tons 1 slot
Reduce mech heat by 7.5 % at start of turn. (15% with both side torsos intact)
Mechs: All Catapults, Crab, Jenner, Stalker?
Victor: Close assault system
(Base off Phoenix Hawk JJ)
1 Ton, 1 Crit, replaces 2 of Victor’s JJ,
+5% JJ distance per system
-5% JJ heat per system
+50% Crit Chance after jump. (Don’t steal the Phawk’s damage bonus thunder or full jump distance)
(Note that this isn’t 100% chance to Crit, it doubles whatever the Crit chance is with both systems active)
Grasshopper: Predator Thrust System
Jump/Jump heat, tonnage/space as Victor
Ignore 7.5% Damage Reduction per unit after jump. (Don’t steal the Warhammer’s 20% damage bonus)
Need to figure out an alternative to the accuracy bonus on multi-trac (intended for Orion, Centurion, possibly Vindicator and Shadowhawk, need to come up with something better for the poor Zeus)
+10% damage when firing at 2 targets, +15% for 3?
Ideally the equipment would grant Multishot if the pilot doesn’t have it and give the bonus if the pilot does have Multishot, but not sure how easy that is to achieve. Otherwise the equipment would just grant the bonus and a pilot without multishot is just SOL. What I don’t want is a mech that gives better Multishot to any pilot.
The Zeus seriously needs something better though, since it already compares poorly to the Orion.
Kintaro or Trebuchet
+20% dmg with missiles
I think given there is such a quirk for ballistic (annihilator - assault) and energy (warhammer - heavy), a medium missile boat such get a similar quirk.
+20% dmg with missiles
I think given there is such a quirk for ballistic (annihilator - assault) and energy (warhammer - heavy), a medium missile boat such get a similar quirk.
There’s more here to quirk than just Damage. It could be a Quirk to SRM or LRM Range. Improved Indirect Fire Accuracy for LRMs. A small chance to start an Electrical Fire for SRMs (similar to an Inferno but without the Greek Fire-Gel.)
LRM already has more range than needed. But + SRM range would be nice. I think it´d fit the Kintaro well.
But with the goal of filling HBS gap in mind, i do think a +20% dmg to missiles quirk is due. Being in a medium is only for symmetry.
But with the goal of filling HBS gap in mind, i do think a +20% dmg to missiles quirk is due. Being in a medium is only for symmetry.
I don’t really like the idea of giving huge damage buffs in the medium class, note the only designs that got damage buffs were the Warhammer, PXH (jumping), and Annihilator.
The Kintaro in particular is already about as good as it gets as a medium, some sort of NARC related quirk might be appropriate since the mech was originally built around that weapon.
Similarly, the Trebuchet is already the only dedicated indirect fire medium mech in the game. (And it has a boosted melee damage quirk already.)
I’m thinking of giving damage bonuses to the stock loadouts of the Zeus, Dragon, Vindicator, Enforcer, and.... would need to figure something for the FWL (not the Orion). Also a sweet fixed 2-slot gyro with +3 hit defense and either -20% stability or +2 melee hit.
The Kintaro in particular is already about as good as it gets as a medium, some sort of NARC related quirk might be appropriate since the mech was originally built around that weapon.
Similarly, the Trebuchet is already the only dedicated indirect fire medium mech in the game. (And it has a boosted melee damage quirk already.)
I’m thinking of giving damage bonuses to the stock loadouts of the Zeus, Dragon, Vindicator, Enforcer, and.... would need to figure something for the FWL (not the Orion). Also a sweet fixed 2-slot gyro with +3 hit defense and either -20% stability or +2 melee hit.
Maybe i think too hard about symmetry, but i really wish HBS had give the Archer a +20% missile dmg instead of what we got.
Perhaps is foolish, but it bothers me not existing a +20% dmg quirk to missiles and support when we do for energy and ballistics.
I wonder if a locust with +20% dmg quirk to support would be worth using...
Perhaps is foolish, but it bothers me not existing a +20% dmg quirk to missiles and support when we do for energy and ballistics.
I wonder if a locust with +20% dmg quirk to support would be worth using...
The Missilery quirk the Archer got is about as good as those, if not better. The damage concentration effect is really noticeable when an Archer starts shooting at me (IMO). There also aren’t ACs or lasers with base tech ++ units that give a 50% damage increase.
Edit: dangit FWLM, why can’t you try to hoard a somewhat undergunned 4-5 speed “generic battle” mech that exists in the game, like all the other major factions did?
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Stuff I’ve managed to put together:
Atlas: +1 accuracy penalty, 10% stability damage taken increase to all enemies within 800m. +.5 signature.
King Crab: -1 accuracy bonus, 10% stability damage reduction to all lancemates.
Awesome: +4 ppc heat damage, -5 ppc heat. Intend to tweak to +6 heat damage, -3 ppc heat.
Highlanders: DFA self damage reduction.
Battlemaster: Command Cockpit. +4 morale, +1 cockpit reinforcement, +50m view distance, +10 head internal structure.
Catapult: +6 heat dissipation, +.07 visibility, 0 tons, 2 slots, 1 each side torso. Doing the fancier % idea I had turned out to be a pain. Prototype ability for space mechs. (-4 per lights, -5 meds, -6 heavies, -7 assaults)
K2: -5 PPC heat, + 15 PPC stability damage. Need something for missile catapults, maybe drop the heat reduction on PPCs. Also give bonus to Panther.
Locust: increased turn radius, +30% short range increase, 180m aura gives +2 difficulty to melee allies.
Quickdraw: screwed with movedef, it can definitely walk where other mechs cannot. Increased turn radius, slightly increased DFA self damage. +20 base stability.
Todo:
Figure out how to affect dlc mechs.
Javelin: -20% short range (yes minus) +30% damage, reduce detection ranges to make Javelin sneaky.
Cataphract 4x 3.5% DR modules.
Jenner, Crab, Stalker: space mech bonus.
Fast Banshees: +10 move.
Victor: jump distance, crit bonus.
Jagermech: flat 1 evasion pip ignore.
Faction Pride mechs: Enforcer, Vindicator, Zeus, Dragon. Built in +3 hit defense gyro, damage bonus to weapons carried in stock configuration. Other tweaks (melee for Dragon, see if ac/10 ammo carried can be tweaked for Enforcer to get it back to 10 shots.)
Thunderbolts: -20% melee damage reduction. (Reduce Artillery damage too?)
Ideas need refinement:
Commando (messing with Sensor Lock has not been fruitful). Quickdraw style mobility improvements? Terrain penalties aren’t in movedef.
Orion: durability increase- maybe reduced structure damage? Not sure how to implement. Would become only mech that can’t be TACed by Gauss Rifle. Also/additionally huge accuracy penalty to hit Orion with machine guns, idea is it’s so durable mgs just bounce off, even if armor is gone.
Griffin: Sarna has interesting line about shoulder armor baffles protecting cockpit. Is there a way to mess with the side hit tables? Generic Head damage immunity way too powerful, also would need to apply to 4N.
Wolverine: slight vision penalty since the cockpit is notoriously bad. Sensor range boost to compensate? Needs some other minor boost to keep up with Griffin/Shadowhawk.
G Back: something small, like a -1 or 2 recoil reduction. You’ll notice it with a rookie pilot, and you’ll notice it with an elite pilot if you stick a UAC 10/20 on there.
Pback: generic laser heat reduction, -1 or -2. Kinda boring though.
Shadowhawk: see if possible to reduce cost to use morale abilities by ~5 or so. Already has boosted melee damage.
Centurion: sensor range, signature boost. DR gear (5-10% tops) on shield arm? Go with the guard mech concept. Maybe spotting distance, visibility boost as well.
Firestarter: minor heat damage taken reduction, not sure how to implement.
Grasshopper: minor JJ range boost, some bonus that doesn’t step on PXH or Victor.
Blackjacks: ac/2 damage boost, not sure what to do to the DB to compensate.
Haven’t hit on an idea that really grabs me:
Spider
Black Knight (originally carried an active probe, but that could cause problems). Actually I got an idea I really like in concept but goes against lore/timeline. Give Black Knight -20% energy damage reduction, 20% increased melee damage (and artillery if easy to code) taken. Simulates reflective armor, makes it an energy boat that hunts energy boats. Not in the timeline though, doesn’t go with mech fluff.
Awesome 8T (original idea too complicated)
Slow Banshee
Other things implemented:
Firing energy weapons increases units spotting visibility.
Being hit with PPCs impairs sensor range, not just accuracy.
To implement:
Carrying LRMs increases unit’s sensor signature.
Firing LRMs increases visibility.
Firing PPCs and Gauss increases sensor signature.
Partially figured out:
Extended Sensor Range (needs to not affect the sensor indicator otherwise it’s hard to tell what you can and can’t sensor lock).
Rebalance detection and signature by unit weight and class. Let light mechs be sneaky.
Tweak energy weapon + damage bonuses down slightly so inflation doesn’t result in 45 damage!!! for 1 ton ER Medium++. Something like 25/28/32 Medium 32/35/39 ER medium. Let the poor Large Laser hang on to the 40 damage breakpoint in its range bracket, since that’s all it has left (maybe bump up short range a bit too?)
Look at ER laser heat generation if implemented. Before they sucked. Now they’re crazy good. Find middle ground.
UAC/2 Base damage to 22/26/30.
General thoughts:
Units with low signature have base sensor range. Units with improved sensor range also increase their base signature.
Units with low spotting visibility have base spotting distance. Mechs with increased spotting visibility (big mechs) have corresponding increase in spotting range.
Atlas: +1 accuracy penalty, 10% stability damage taken increase to all enemies within 800m. +.5 signature.
King Crab: -1 accuracy bonus, 10% stability damage reduction to all lancemates.
Awesome: +4 ppc heat damage, -5 ppc heat. Intend to tweak to +6 heat damage, -3 ppc heat.
Highlanders: DFA self damage reduction.
Battlemaster: Command Cockpit. +4 morale, +1 cockpit reinforcement, +50m view distance, +10 head internal structure.
Catapult: +6 heat dissipation, +.07 visibility, 0 tons, 2 slots, 1 each side torso. Doing the fancier % idea I had turned out to be a pain. Prototype ability for space mechs. (-4 per lights, -5 meds, -6 heavies, -7 assaults)
K2: -5 PPC heat, + 15 PPC stability damage. Need something for missile catapults, maybe drop the heat reduction on PPCs. Also give bonus to Panther.
Locust: increased turn radius, +30% short range increase, 180m aura gives +2 difficulty to melee allies.
Quickdraw: screwed with movedef, it can definitely walk where other mechs cannot. Increased turn radius, slightly increased DFA self damage. +20 base stability.
Todo:
Figure out how to affect dlc mechs.
Javelin: -20% short range (yes minus) +30% damage, reduce detection ranges to make Javelin sneaky.
Cataphract 4x 3.5% DR modules.
Jenner, Crab, Stalker: space mech bonus.
Fast Banshees: +10 move.
Victor: jump distance, crit bonus.
Jagermech: flat 1 evasion pip ignore.
Faction Pride mechs: Enforcer, Vindicator, Zeus, Dragon. Built in +3 hit defense gyro, damage bonus to weapons carried in stock configuration. Other tweaks (melee for Dragon, see if ac/10 ammo carried can be tweaked for Enforcer to get it back to 10 shots.)
Thunderbolts: -20% melee damage reduction. (Reduce Artillery damage too?)
Ideas need refinement:
Commando (messing with Sensor Lock has not been fruitful). Quickdraw style mobility improvements? Terrain penalties aren’t in movedef.
Orion: durability increase- maybe reduced structure damage? Not sure how to implement. Would become only mech that can’t be TACed by Gauss Rifle. Also/additionally huge accuracy penalty to hit Orion with machine guns, idea is it’s so durable mgs just bounce off, even if armor is gone.
Griffin: Sarna has interesting line about shoulder armor baffles protecting cockpit. Is there a way to mess with the side hit tables? Generic Head damage immunity way too powerful, also would need to apply to 4N.
Wolverine: slight vision penalty since the cockpit is notoriously bad. Sensor range boost to compensate? Needs some other minor boost to keep up with Griffin/Shadowhawk.
G Back: something small, like a -1 or 2 recoil reduction. You’ll notice it with a rookie pilot, and you’ll notice it with an elite pilot if you stick a UAC 10/20 on there.
Pback: generic laser heat reduction, -1 or -2. Kinda boring though.
Shadowhawk: see if possible to reduce cost to use morale abilities by ~5 or so. Already has boosted melee damage.
Centurion: sensor range, signature boost. DR gear (5-10% tops) on shield arm? Go with the guard mech concept. Maybe spotting distance, visibility boost as well.
Firestarter: minor heat damage taken reduction, not sure how to implement.
Grasshopper: minor JJ range boost, some bonus that doesn’t step on PXH or Victor.
Blackjacks: ac/2 damage boost, not sure what to do to the DB to compensate.
Haven’t hit on an idea that really grabs me:
Spider
Black Knight (originally carried an active probe, but that could cause problems). Actually I got an idea I really like in concept but goes against lore/timeline. Give Black Knight -20% energy damage reduction, 20% increased melee damage (and artillery if easy to code) taken. Simulates reflective armor, makes it an energy boat that hunts energy boats. Not in the timeline though, doesn’t go with mech fluff.
Awesome 8T (original idea too complicated)
Slow Banshee
Other things implemented:
Firing energy weapons increases units spotting visibility.
Being hit with PPCs impairs sensor range, not just accuracy.
To implement:
Carrying LRMs increases unit’s sensor signature.
Firing LRMs increases visibility.
Firing PPCs and Gauss increases sensor signature.
Partially figured out:
Extended Sensor Range (needs to not affect the sensor indicator otherwise it’s hard to tell what you can and can’t sensor lock).
Rebalance detection and signature by unit weight and class. Let light mechs be sneaky.
Tweak energy weapon + damage bonuses down slightly so inflation doesn’t result in 45 damage!!! for 1 ton ER Medium++. Something like 25/28/32 Medium 32/35/39 ER medium. Let the poor Large Laser hang on to the 40 damage breakpoint in its range bracket, since that’s all it has left (maybe bump up short range a bit too?)
Look at ER laser heat generation if implemented. Before they sucked. Now they’re crazy good. Find middle ground.
UAC/2 Base damage to 22/26/30.
General thoughts:
Units with low signature have base sensor range. Units with improved sensor range also increase their base signature.
Units with low spotting visibility have base spotting distance. Mechs with increased spotting visibility (big mechs) have corresponding increase in spotting range.
Normaly i think, all bonuses or Funktion are available in Game. Give the jägermech the sehe Quark like the rifleman. And so in. I think only some quirks have to ne written new. Die thunderbolt is a metalpig. Why Don,t give hin the damage reduction from the marauder? Keep things easy.
The whole point of the Rifleman’s quirk was to stop it from just being a crappy Jagermech. Just giving the quirk to the Jagermech in the name of keeping things easy completely misses the point.
It would be better to have no quirk at all than to just duplicate quirks, because the point of a quirk is to make a mech more unique, not less.
Oki doki. I Do Not like this quirks on the new mechs. I think if one mech has a quirk , all should have one. Now it looks like hbs would push the new ones. Also the vanilla random tables för the shops looks like.
The thing is, that the Blackjack, jägermech and also the rifleman are Very Very similar. They are sniper. So i think they need similar quirks to push them in their role.
I am writting from a German Tablet......
Ok, i thought similar is same. Sorry för that. English is not my mothertoung. Icewraith, you have nice ideas und i do Not want to blame you. This which i write is only my meaning. I am Not Very sure, could it be that the jägermech was created to not have problems with the unseen? Their are many mechs with the same role. And i think that the Detailgrad from battle tech is Very rought.
No worries, I think I mostly see what you’re getting at.
(similar = these guys are all tall.
same = these guys are all 6’ (1.829m) tall.)
Rifleman, Jagermech, Blackjack- all these guys deal long range damage with autocannon, they’re snipers. They are similar. You could also say they fulfill the same role (all snipers).
But giving them all the same quirk (+100 view distance, reduced long range and recoil penalties, takes up head slot - what the Rifleman got) would be boring.
Giving the Blackjack some free AC/2 damage is pretty straightforward, the trick then becomes what to do with the Blackjack DB (2 LL 2 ML, speed 4, jumps) and the Crab (2 LL 1 ML 1 SL, speed 5, doesn’t jump stock).
Thinking of ditching the space mech idea and instead giving all Catapults +20% missile damage reduction and missile Catapults +1 LRM stability damage (since I gave the K2 PPC stability damage). I didn’t see an easy way to boost indirect fire damage otherwise I would consider that.
Thinking +3 difficulty to hit the Orion with ballistic weapons and + 6 with machine guns. The Orion, especially in more recent artwork, is a mess of angles and shapes that ballistic weapons might skip off of instead of hitting cleanly. I don’t want to just give it ballistic DR for that reason.
The Black Knight and Griffin, with their SLDF versions, are problems.
Idea notes:
Trebuchet: Impact Noise Fatigue Enhancement SysTem (INFEST)
0 ton, 3 crit, goes in non-missile side torso.
Debuffs target hit by missiles with +10?% missile and ballistic damage taken, 2 rounds, 1 stack maximum, counts target activations.
Centurion:
Increased signature, sensor range.
Reinforced Shield Arm 0 ton 2 crit.
5% damage reduction, located in non-weapon arm.
CN9-A:
Autocannon Accoustic Amplifier: 0 ton 1 crit, AC arm
On ballistic hit, target takes 5% extra damage from missile weapons, 2 round duration, no stack limit, attacks refresh stack timer, counts target activations.
(or, why the FWL is known for deploying lances of Trebuchet/Trebuchet/Centurion/Archer)
CN9-AL: something something laser heat damage something. Laser hits debuff target with 5% increased energy damage taken, 2 rounds, 2 stack limit, counts target activations. (Melting armor won’t make it more sensitive to missile detonations like striking it might.)
Jagermech: ignores 1 evasion. Firing ballistic or missile weapons increases stability by 5, limit 4 stacks, 2 round duration.
Hunchback G: -2 refire penalty, stability increase mechanic similar to Jagermech.
Stalker: signature reduction system.
0 tons, 2 slots each side torso. - 30% unit signature (2 stacks max, passive). On weapon fire, +40% unit signature, 2 rounds, 2 stacks max, counts unit activations. This will let the Stalker pull off the “waits behind building, enemy unit walks past, Stalker ambushes it” tactic from the TRO while letting the AI respond appropriately after the ambush.
Grasshopper: similar stealth system, slightly increase jump range.
Victor: similar jump range increase, flat crit bonus to all weapons (can’t link to jumping easily). The Victor will be a can opener to be feared, even in the hands of the AI.
Vindicator: PPC hit causes 20% stability damage taken increase (distinct from K2/Panther, which just got stab damage) 1 stack, 2 rounds, uses target activations. Consider increasing DR, Vindicator has a reputation for being a tough little SOB.
Enforcer: +10 Large Laser (not pulse or ER) damage, +20 AC/10 stab +25% crit, +2 ac/10 ammo per ton.
Cicadas: Actuator targeting system. -20% move/sprint speed (1 stack, on weapon hit.)
Trebuchet: Impact Noise Fatigue Enhancement SysTem (INFEST)
0 ton, 3 crit, goes in non-missile side torso.
Debuffs target hit by missiles with +10?% missile and ballistic damage taken, 2 rounds, 1 stack maximum, counts target activations.
Centurion:
Increased signature, sensor range.
Reinforced Shield Arm 0 ton 2 crit.
5% damage reduction, located in non-weapon arm.
CN9-A:
Autocannon Accoustic Amplifier: 0 ton 1 crit, AC arm
On ballistic hit, target takes 5% extra damage from missile weapons, 2 round duration, no stack limit, attacks refresh stack timer, counts target activations.
(or, why the FWL is known for deploying lances of Trebuchet/Trebuchet/Centurion/Archer)
CN9-AL: something something laser heat damage something. Laser hits debuff target with 5% increased energy damage taken, 2 rounds, 2 stack limit, counts target activations. (Melting armor won’t make it more sensitive to missile detonations like striking it might.)
Jagermech: ignores 1 evasion. Firing ballistic or missile weapons increases stability by 5, limit 4 stacks, 2 round duration.
Hunchback G: -2 refire penalty, stability increase mechanic similar to Jagermech.
Stalker: signature reduction system.
0 tons, 2 slots each side torso. - 30% unit signature (2 stacks max, passive). On weapon fire, +40% unit signature, 2 rounds, 2 stacks max, counts unit activations. This will let the Stalker pull off the “waits behind building, enemy unit walks past, Stalker ambushes it” tactic from the TRO while letting the AI respond appropriately after the ambush.
Grasshopper: similar stealth system, slightly increase jump range.
Victor: similar jump range increase, flat crit bonus to all weapons (can’t link to jumping easily). The Victor will be a can opener to be feared, even in the hands of the AI.
Vindicator: PPC hit causes 20% stability damage taken increase (distinct from K2/Panther, which just got stab damage) 1 stack, 2 rounds, uses target activations. Consider increasing DR, Vindicator has a reputation for being a tough little SOB.
Enforcer: +10 Large Laser (not pulse or ER) damage, +20 AC/10 stab +25% crit, +2 ac/10 ammo per ton.
Cicadas: Actuator targeting system. -20% move/sprint speed (1 stack, on weapon hit.)