Breaking up the Carolingian Empire

[gekp78]

Is the Carolingian Empire generally very stable? And whats the best way to break it up? My Norse Empire keeps getting ripped to shreds by the Empire. First the Emperor declares war, then all of his king vassals declare separate wars, taking huge chunks of land. I simply can't keep up with their doom-stacks. With all of the separate wars, I'm facing nearly 100000 men, with only 17000 of my own.

 

[Rylock]

It will usually break up after a few successions, unless it's very lucky. Best way to encourage that is to encourage successions to occur -- assassinate the emperor, if you can. If succession ever falls to a non-Karling, that will mean it's likely to break apart very quickly.

 

[themrwho]

Is the Carolingian Empire generally very stable? And whats the best way to break it up? My Norse Empire keeps getting ripped to shreds by the Empire. First the Emperor declares war, then all of his king vassals declare separate wars, taking huge chunks of land. I simply can't keep up with their doom-stacks. With all of the separate wars, I'm facing nearly 100000 men, with only 17000 of my own.

Sorry I don't have a magic solution for your current situation 100K vs 17K is just hopeless...

Tip for your next game: That's my nightmare scenario what you are in now. Lately I have been playing mostly in England area and I take every opportunity to help weaken France and later the empire. If you work really hard & not miss any opportunity to weaken them by the time you have your own Empire they should be a mess, definitely much weaker than you.

There is contrast early on I join that ambitious boy charlie's wars with my 50 - 100 or so men (from vassals) it doesn't cost me money and helps make some prestige sometimes good ransom money too! Once he is crowned I cut military relations and work on my duchy/kingdom/empire but always keeping an eye on what's going on in France. Ally people in the region if possible. Always assisting the other side as much as possible. Grab Normandy as soon as possible and other coastal provinces as time permits. The ultimate goal is landlocking them ASAP.

The above strategy worked in 3-4 games so far. Good luck

 

[gekp78]

The problem is, I'm a Norse pagan so its a bit hard to arrange marriages to rulers outside my realm even with an empire ranking. I'll try focusing all my efforts on just assassinating every emperor. I figured that was my best bet. Rylock, are there events that break up the Empire if a non-Karling rules it?

 

[themrwho]

The problem is, I'm a Norse pagan so its a bit hard to arrange marriages to rulers outside my realm even with an empire ranking. I'll try focusing all my efforts on just assassinating every emperor. I figured that was my best bet. Rylock, are there events that break up the Empire if a non-Karling rules it?

Your strength then is your ability to weaken realms without even needing a Casus Belli.

Perhaps in future games, keep sniping the king's (later emperor's) personal demesne raiding ANY French land early on to get the 180 days counter ticking - then you are enemies.
As an enemy move inland to his personal demesne destroy his troops. Once you do this a few times, his vassals will start plotting (as he is now MUCH weaker relatively).
Haven't tried this personally but did something similar to whole Ireland so it should work!

 

[Michael B]

The problem is, I'm a Norse pagan so its a bit hard to arrange marriages to rulers outside my realm even with an empire ranking. I'll try focusing all my efforts on just assassinating every emperor. I figured that was my best bet. Rylock, are there events that break up the Empire if a non-Karling rules it?

Yes. If non karling gets to be emperor it breaks up . It did in my game anyway. Non karling won a war for Emperors throne and event fired to break up empire.

 

[themrwho]

Yes. If non karling gets to be emperor it breaks up . It did in my game anyway. Non karling won a war for Emperors throne and event fired to break up empire.

I also had -several times- one Karling ruling as King of France, another as Emperor plus a couple other kingdoms in the empire. This way they are weak and keep fighting on every succession.
Sometimes it just happens you don't need to do anything.
Other times Just try and use your limited military force as per strategy. Always attack whoever *might* become the next mighty ruler. Prevent him.

 

[gekp78]

I managed to get it to collapse! I raided around the Mediterranean for money and used my spymaster to build up my spy network and kept sending assassins after emperors. A couple of dead emperors later and the whole thing collapsed. Each succession was pretty rocky, giving me time to rebuild my coffers and spy network. I had to fight off some of the king level vassals (who could still field about as many men as me) but they were a much more even fight then fighting the emperor. Whew, it felt real good getting the 'End of the Carolingian Empire' event!

 

[opellulo]

In one of my latest game (with Ethiopia so, not my fault) the Empire went to a Lombard Karling and then some mad stuff happened until almost all the Empire revolted to put on the throne a 10y old danish nobody; the Empire fell off faster that you can say "sue for peace". In another (again with no interaction from me) there was this damned genius Karling bloodline that went berserk from Spain to Hungary until they married a Basileus relative and decided that there should be a Karling even on the ERE throne.

 

[themrwho]

I managed to get it to collapse! I raided around the Mediterranean for money and used my spymaster to build up my spy network and kept sending assassins after emperors. A couple of dead emperors later and the whole thing collapsed. Each succession was pretty rocky, giving me time to rebuild my coffers and spy network. I had to fight off some of the king level vassals (who could still field about as many men as me) but they were a much more even fight then fighting the emperor. Whew, it felt real good getting the 'End of the Carolingian Empire' event!

Congrats on your success. It's a bit IMO gamey as AI is not instructed to do the same but it's your game your rules so good job.

 

[vukica]

kill emperor, marry relatives, press claim, kill again, etc.

 

[sejemaset]

Whenever I play Norse I use Karling territory as my primary raiding income, and I don't ransom Karlings. Most games I wipe out the dynasty before they become a threat.