Bug: Counts feud event for Denmark, gives too long RR

[devil]

As most know in the previous beta patch the counts feud event was changed to add german culture to denmark. At the cost of giving denmark a high RR for 240 months, which is quit a long time and makes Denmark unplayable. Now the really big problem with this is its set as "A" the historical option!

command = { type = revoltrisk which = 240 value = 15 }

Now back then I suggested: To remove the huge amount of RR that was added which is very unhistorical. Another option is denmark getting cores on north germany instead of german culture. Denmark was afterall the protector and strongest protestant nation.

Ofcourse the easiest option is to make the A option historical which is 36 months civil war instead of the insane 240 months. Read first and second link.

command = { type = revoltrisk which = 36 value = 15 }

I agree that if the A option is selected Denmark should instantly convert to protestantism, as that is what Christian 3 did or if the B option is selected convert to catholicism. Read second link below.

Links:
Denmark History link

History of Danish Kings ( About how Christian 3 won the war with help of his loyal general Rantzau. )

History from the Norweigain side (need to go several pages down.)

Danish Page about the Counts Feud

 

[devil]

Listen to BiB, he's right. Sweden also held German cultured parts, and had kings from there. It should no have German culture.

hehe but did you speak german? The danish monarchy is still from the same line as it was back then

Anyway I agree, instead Denmark should have cores on north germany and maybe holstein converted to scandinavian

 

[AndrewT]

The RR simulates the danish civil war 1534-1536, which ended with victory for the protestant faction under Christian III

So why would it have been given 240 months of RR? Could it have been a simple typo for 24 months, I wonder?

 

[wryun]

So why would it have been given 240 months of RR? Could it have been a simple typo for 24 months, I wonder?

I think it was introduced because an extra culture is a significant advantage, so it needed to have a significant disadvantage to balance the event.

The cores idea suggested seems to be a reasonable compromise.

 

[BiB]

So why would it have been given 240 months of RR? Could it have been a simple typo for 24 months, I wonder?

Because like Wyrun says, getting German culture is an enormous bonus and it needed a similar size penalty to offset it.

 

[devil]

Because like Wyrun says, getting German culture is an enormous bonus and it needed a similar size penalty to offset it.

yeah but it shouldn't be a "A" option to ruin your country. RR 24 months, cores on german and conversion of holstein should be acceptable for the A option.

 

[unmerged(18425)]

Either remove the option to give Denmark German culture or let it stay as it is.

There is no point at giving Denmark the huge benefit of German culture without significant RR risk.

 

[saskganesh]

Either remove the option to give Denmark German culture or let it stay as it is.

There is no point at giving Denmark the huge benefit of German culture without significant RR risk.

which is why option C (gain german culture, have 20 years of ridiculous RR and good luck with the inevitible swedish invasion) would be a good thing.

 

[BiB]

yeah but it shouldn't be a "A" option to ruin your country. RR 24 months, cores on german and conversion of holstein should be acceptable for the A option.

Of course it shouldn't be the A option but the thing is it shouldn't be the B option either (or C or D or ...)

Nor should Denmark get cores on Germany, esp not for the very cheap price of 24 months of RR only!

As pointed out above, Sweden was more instrumental in the 30YW with regards to protecting protestants in Germany, there are even events that give it a German province but it does not get any cores on Germany and it shouldn't!

 

[Norrefeldt]

Once again the apparently wise mod is right.

 

[devil]

Of course it shouldn't be the A option but the thing is it shouldn't be the B option either (or C or D or ...)

Nor should Denmark get cores on Germany, esp not for the very cheap price of 24 months of RR only!

As pointed out above, Sweden was more instrumental in the 30YW with regards to protecting protestants in Germany

Was Sweden more instrumental than denmark in the defence of the protestant faith? They might have been the stronger part later but certainly not untill Christian 4'th massive defeats.

I know the fact Denmark, the leader of the protestant faith, send 75% of its army to north germany to fight the mighty habsburg, the danish army was crushed together with the north germans, and when news arrived in sweden of the danish defeat they attacked Denmark. That is indeed a true defender of the faith but ofcourse still a wise decision from the swedish king

there are even events that give it a German province but it does not get any cores on Germany and it shouldn't!

Still Sweden gets ugric culture which is a even weaker claim than Denmark has on german. So that arguement is useless, we all know johan won't remove that from Sweden.

The point is still johan thinks some sort of repair should be given to Denmark, as he won't touch Sweden, Denmark has to be the target of any edit. Now he tried with German culture that might be a bit too much ( I wish there was a north german culture), now we have concluded that doesn't work alas a lesser edit should be given.

 

[Hive]

Denmark shouldn't ever get German culture. Having German kings and speaking German in the court ain't enough.

But speaking of Ugric culture, I really feel Denmark should get that when they inherit Norway (as Norway have 2 ugric provinces). It would also make Denmark and Sweden potentially fight more for Estland, where they both had interests.

 

[AndrewT]

Well if Johan implemented the German culture thing, then I doubt he'll agree to undo it. So whatever proposal I put up will need to leave that intact and probably still as option A also.

 

[devil]

Well if Johan implemented the German culture thing, then I doubt he'll agree to undo it. So whatever proposal I put up will need to leave that intact and probably still as option A also.

But leaving it as a A option means 90% chance ruining of Denmark, or staying catholic in a B option, with some very bad effects also. That really aint fair.

I don't know if Johan would do it but some suggestions could be:

1: add ugric to denmark instead of german, make the RR historic?
2: Modify it to the correct length of the civil war, with some other penalty instead?
3: Maybe we could Lower RR to say 3, and leave it for the xxx months?

 

[unmerged(18425)]

I wonder why a historical event is in the bug forum by the way.

I mean, you can argue a lot about events, but are it really bugs?

 

[BiB]

Because these issues tend to be looked at and sorted out here.

 

[Fredrik82]

I agree with Hive and BiB that Denmark should never have german culture, neither should they have ugric culture just for the reason to compensate for something that they shouldnt have in the first place

This event does indeed ruin Denmark, it must be refuced RR wise. preferably, removed and replaced with the old one.

Ahistorical cultures wont make Denmark more "balanced", more provinces like Fyn will

 

[AndrewT]

How about if we reduced the length of the RR, but increased the amount? Say, 48 months but +30%, instead of 240/+15% ?

 

[Hive]

I agree with Hive and BiB that Denmark should never have german culture, neither should they have ugric culture just for the reason to compensate for something that they shouldnt have in the first place

Denmark getting ugric culture is as just as Sweden getting it. Or perhaps you are gonna argue that Denmark had more trouble ruling her ugric subjects in Norway than Sweden had ruling her ugric subjects in Finland?

 

[Hive]

How about if we reduced the length of the RR, but increased the amount? Say, 48 months but +30%, instead of 240/+15% ?

To me, any solution not removing German culture from that event completely is only a half solution.

Why not put it as a B choice, if you really insist on keeping it? Yes, it makes less sense than in the A choice... but since it doesn't make much sense to give them German culture at all in the first place, I still think it would be an improvement.

 

[Norrefeldt]

Denmark getting ugric culture is as just as Sweden getting it. Or perhaps you are gonna argue that Denmark had more trouble ruling her ugric subjects in Norway than Sweden had ruling her ugric subjects in Finland?

The problem here is that Norway has Ugric provinces, which it shouldn't have. The people that payed taxes and lived in, for the government, easily accessable settlements were not lapps (Ugric), but Norweigains (Scandinavian). Sweden and Denmark didn't care much about the lapps until rather late, and then there were many more of the Swedes/Norwegians in those areas. With that fixed there's no reason for Norway nor Denmark to have Ugric.