Bug: Counts feud event for Denmark, gives too long RR

[devil]

As most know in the previous beta patch the counts feud event was changed to add german culture to denmark. At the cost of giving denmark a high RR for 240 months, which is quit a long time and makes Denmark unplayable. Now the really big problem with this is its set as "A" the historical option!

command = { type = revoltrisk which = 240 value = 15 }

Now back then I suggested: To remove the huge amount of RR that was added which is very unhistorical. Another option is denmark getting cores on north germany instead of german culture. Denmark was afterall the protector and strongest protestant nation.

Ofcourse the easiest option is to make the A option historical which is 36 months civil war instead of the insane 240 months. Read first and second link.

command = { type = revoltrisk which = 36 value = 15 }

I agree that if the A option is selected Denmark should instantly convert to protestantism, as that is what Christian 3 did or if the B option is selected convert to catholicism. Read second link below.

Links:
Denmark History link

History of Danish Kings ( About how Christian 3 won the war with help of his loyal general Rantzau. )

History from the Norweigain side (need to go several pages down.)

Danish Page about the Counts Feud

 

[BiB]

To me, any solution not removing German culture from that event completely is only a half solution.

Why not put it as a B choice, if you really insist on keeping it? Yes, it makes less sense than in the A choice... but since it doesn't make much sense to give them German culture at all in the first place, I still think it would be an improvement.

What he said. If you are going to keep it in regardless of all the evidence to the contrary that Denmark shouldn't have it, then at least make it the B choice. Putting it as the B choice makes as much sense as putting in an option to get German so that's nothing too bad.

That way it at least won't ruin any SP and/or ai games anymore while still making it possible to go for it in MP, which is why Johan put it in in the first place anyway. Then the RR doesn't need reducing either, people can always pick the other option and the ai won't go for it.

 

[AndrewT]

To me, any solution not removing German culture from that event completely is only a half solution.

Why not put it as a B choice, if you really insist on keeping it? Yes, it makes less sense than in the A choice... but since it doesn't make much sense to give them German culture at all in the first place, I still think it would be an improvement.

I think Johan will refuse any suggested change that undoes a change he implemented. Consequently there is no point in considering that.

And I don't want to make the historical option, option B; I also suspect he will refuse that.

 

[BiB]

Well, Johan also implemented the large RR so if you keep that other change, keep that one too.

And Johan has switched historical and ahistorical options before so switching them would not be setting a precedent.

 

[devil]

I think Johan will refuse any suggested change that undoes a change he implemented. Consequently there is no point in considering that.

And I don't want to make the historical option, option B; I also suspect he will refuse that.

Then there is not else to do than remove some of the RR or set it to +5 RR for the same duration.

 

[AndrewT]

OK, I've posted this in the beta forum backstage to see if Johan has any comment and/or will allow such changes.

 

[devil]

How about if we reduced the length of the RR, but increased the amount? Say, 48 months but +30%, instead of 240/+15% ?

Maybe this is the best solution, considering all the circumstances.

I look forward to what the backstage reports

 

[saskganesh]

almost a month now...i hope this isn't a dead issue.

 

[AndrewT]

Well, not 100% sure. The last line of my post to Johan said "the suggestion is that Option A be changed to have RR for 24 months, cores on some northern German provinces and perhaps conversion of Holstein to Scan culture", and he responded "sure", in his typically verbose manner.

I was assuming he meant he'd take care of it, but on reflection he may be just saying he'd be OK with us doing it. I'll try submitting it and we'll see.

 

[AndrewT]

Erm, so I'll need a list of what provinces we are to propose. Anyone who wants to take a shot at what the new option A should look like is welcome to.

 

[saskganesh]

?Oldenberg, Bremen, Meck-daddy, and maybe the Poms?

 

[Norrefeldt]

Only Vorpommern, since that's where king Erik came from.

 

[BiB]

I still think they should get none

 

[Norrefeldt]

I still think they should get none

Me too. I'm just considering this the lesser of two evil.

 

[Hive]

Oldenburg, Vor Pommern - if you *must* give them cores...

 

[Fredrik82]

Vor Pommern - if you *must* give them cores...

Considering that Sweden annex this province through event and they still dont get any core on it, what make it legitimate to give Denmark core on it?

Bremen-Oldenburg must be a more accurate and historical claimed land for Denmark then, no?

 

[Dimes]

The problem here is that Norway has Ugric provinces, which it shouldn't have. The people that payed taxes and lived in, for the government, easily accessable settlements were not lapps (Ugric), but Norweigains (Scandinavian). Sweden and Denmark didn't care much about the lapps until rather late, and then there were many more of the Swedes/Norwegians in those areas. With that fixed there's no reason for Norway nor Denmark to have Ugric.

Not entirely true. The Kalmar war 1611-1613 was mainly fought over control with the shoreline in northern Scandinavia and the right to tax the samis/lapps/finns. After all there is a reason it's called Finnmark ;p

 

[Hive]

Considering that Sweden annex this province through event and they still dont get any core on it, what make it legitimate to give Denmark core on it?

Nothing makes it legitimate. But it is clear that Johan want Denmark to have more reason to go into Germany one way or another - and giving them cores sure is less severe than giving them the culture.

Bremen-Oldenburg must be a more accurate and historical claimed land for Denmark then, no?

Oldenburg could perhaps be justified as a core for Denmark, but not throughout the entire EU2 time period. Bremen? No, not really.

 

[saskganesh]

Oldenburg could perhaps be justified as a core for Denmark, but not throughout the entire EU2 time period. Bremen? No, not really.

from what i can tell, we need a proposal that includes more than one core though. or the german culture event will likely stay as it is.

while ahistorical, is a trio like "oldenberg, bremen & mecklenberg" really over the top?

 

[Hive]

while ahistorical, is a trio like "oldenberg, bremen & mecklenberg" really over the top?

Would it wreck the game? No. That's not the problem. The problem is that we strive for EU2 to be somewhat historical, no? But it most certainly is better than German culture...

This event is one of the reasons I don't play vanilla EU2 anymore...

 

[unmerged(21544)]

I don't know if it is of any use for you but if you check revoly.txt you'll see that almost all the new revolters have an enddate in 1500 or is South American revolters. There seem to be only two exceptions; two that have had their date extended to 1550. Those two are both danish revolters. And the extention is just enough to cover this event. I don't think that's unintentional.