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Admittedly I've not paid too much in the way of attention given I plan on mostly ripping out whatever the devs added there, but good to know that it'll be more than I was initially expecting.
Yeah, I didn't like those changes, hell I didn't like ages and institutions from the start. They're just a way to gatekeep progress to Europe as it was in EU4, as most institution requirements are gated behind something happening in Europe and not much from everywhere else. "Institutions" and progress as a whole aren't linear, they're always parallel and dynamic. Song had printing presses and a large printing industry already before the game's timeline well ahead of the Europeans, yet because of the way institutions are, Europeans will always be the first to get them.
 
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Yeah, I didn't like those changes, hell I didn't like ages and institutions from the start. They're just a way to gatekeep progress to Europe as it was in EU4, as most institution requirements are gated behind something happening in Europe and not much from everywhere else. "Institutions" and progress as a whole aren't linear, they're always parallel and dynamic. Song had printing presses and a large printing industry already before the game's timeline well ahead of the Europeans, yet because of the way institutions are, Europeans will always be the first to get them.
How else do you get historically plausible games? If AI China is taking over the world with a million space marines in mid-late game because they had all the perfect conditions in a "dynamic" system, it would be extremely immersion breaking to me.

IMO it's also much more interesting to play other places than Europe, when you get challenged by trying to keep up the best you can in the early-mid game and then potentially outscale them later in the game when institutions aren't region locked to Europe. If you can "game" the institutions from the early game, the challenge is quickly taken away.
 
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How else do you get historically plausible games?
China not having the printing press institution is ahistorical in the first place!

And we have pops now, more simulative economy. Native Americans not having firearms or cavalry early will be because horses don't natively exist in the Americas or because they don't have the tech for smithing iron or copper, not because some Lord Hingus McDingus in Europe arbitrarily determines that they shouldn't have the tech until the 1600s. If some European bloke trades them firearms or the tech for copper/ironworks in the 1500s, like what the Portuguese or the Dutch did in Japan, then why shouldn't that be plausible? And they should be able to learn to smith metals along the time, waaaaay earlier if the player chooses to be.
 
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China not having the printing press institution is ahistorical in the first place!

And we have pops now, more simulative economy. Native Americans not having firearms or cavalry early will be because horses don't natively exist in the Americas or because they don't have the tech for smithing iron or copper, not because some Lord Hingus McDingus in Europe arbitrarily determines that they shouldn't have the tech until the 1600s. If some European bloke trades them firearms or the tech for copper/ironworks in the 1500s, like what the Portuguese or the Dutch did in Japan, then why shouldn't that be plausible? And they should be able to learn to smith metals along the time, waaaaay earlier if the player chooses to be.
Chinese printing wasn't as efficient mainly because how many characters they had to use compared to the alphabet. Also to my understanding Chinese printing was more of a tradition, where in Europe there was a higher demand for religious and scientific texts that pushed its innovation. You just can't compare the significance they had to their respective societies.

W.r.t to that other point, institutions already transfer with trade? It's modeled through that.
 
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Ages are stupid IMHO. They are arbitrary, and are all Eurocentric. Why the hell would Japan unlock a Whatchamacallit Factory only in the Age of Renaissance when they have no concept of Renaissance in like, ever? Shouldn't they unlock the building if they have already researched the tech for it?

Ages should be region-specific, or hell, country-specific, and all these buildings and techs should just be wrapped up inside the tech tree itself. Replacing that could be like Japan having a country-specific age where they "discover" Portuguese and Dutch traders willing to trade them next-generation matchlocks and flintlocks, including cannons, and that should unlock an age of upheaval in Japan where they battle or embrace Christianization, along with improvements in warfare due to better cannons and rifles.

Consequently ages should not be linear, but branching. What if Japan embraces Christianization and the resulting warlords became more tame, possibly resulting in an early end of the Sengoku Era under a Christian shogun and an Eastern Papacy that tries to rein in the violence? What do we call that age then, Age of Something Eurocentric?
There is no single tech tree separate from the Age system.

Ages act as a time-gate on Institutions, and each Institution forms the start of its own Advancement-tree.
 
speaking of buildings, we have 2 additional new and strange features:
age focuses and background sourced advances. Age focuses means you can get the lvl 1 but not lvl 2 of a building. The same is true for background focuses like switching religion and suddenly you cannot have a later age.

The question being: if you have age 1 and 2 lack age 3, can you go from 2 to 4 should you in the case of age focuses acquire it? Or is the age 3 REQUIRED for 4?
I am pretty sure the normal building path is not part of age focus and background dependence.

At maximum a normal building of the building path will be replaced by a lightly better one or one an age earlier.
 
Most of the relevant TTs don’t mention any advances - they just mention the age. The devs very often do this sort of minimalist communication, where they just assume people are aware of something that they haven’t mentioned in several months. (And to be fair, some of the more enthusiastic readers really are aware of these things.)
Did a dev search on "Building Advance" and got this (search is your friend).
1. The checkmark is 'Special Conditions'. In this case, it marks that it requires the 'Sofa Levies' advance to be unlocked (so, if you see the building in another part of the GUI, you know that you need to go to the Advances Tree and research the advance to unlock it).
2. Because there has been some materials rebalance since we created the building, and now the description is a bit outdated.

Where it is talking about this advance, which shows that it takes an advance to unlock building and allow unit types.
Sofa%20Levies.png


Here is the building. The third icon on the pop-type line is indicating that it is 'Age of Renaissance' and the next is the icon for the advance 'Sofa Levies' in this case. So the building-type tooltip does indicate both the age and advance (if there is a required one).
Sofa%20Stockade.png
 
Chinese printing wasn't as efficient mainly because how many characters they had to use compared to the alphabet. Also to my understanding Chinese printing was more of a tradition, where in Europe there was a higher demand for religious and scientific texts that pushed its innovation. You just can't compare the significance they had to their respective societies.
Irrelevant, because printing as an institution and as an industry is already widespread in China. It doesn't matter if they have a thousand characters to block print, but if the Southern Song already had 200 large printing workshops available and wide varieties of printed material in circulation, including porns, treatises, some sort of early magazines, government manuals, administrative ledgers, etc, then the woodblock printing and the movable types they invented had widespread impact already.

Also as to your understanding, you need to understand more.

Here's some reading material:

AskHistorians - Why did the invention of movable type in Germany cause social transformation and intellectual revolution, while the invention of movable type in East Asia didn't?

I feel that the premise of the question is flawed. The Chinese did have a flourishing printing and book culture from the Tang dynasty onward. Movable type was invented in China during the Song dynasty by Bi Sheng (c. 990-1051). The Song invention of movable type did not create China's printing culture—woodblock printing was already widely in use—but it certainly was a product of it. Movable type did not inspire a "printing revolution" because a printing culture had already been established.

Movable type printing did have a significant impact on China, even if it did not completely replace woodblock printing. Commercial publishers in later imperial China increasingly made use of the unique advantages of movable type printing. By the 15th century, publishers were casting copper-tin metal types throughout southern China. They experimented with lead type and transitioned to wooden type beginning in the 16th century.¹ Wooden type would remain the most popular, and there are at least a hundred surviving books from the Ming period that were produced with wooden type. The technology also spread from China through East and Inner Asia. Movable type printing was adopted by the Koreans, Tibetans, Tanguts, and Uyghurs. Woodblock printing was not supplanted by movable type, but in the Chinese publishing industry, woodblock and movable type printing served different purposes. Movable type printing was more popular than woodblock printing when the number of prints needed were small or the text required frequent updating, such as the genealogies of the Qing dynasty.

There is an argument that the large number of characters in written Chinese prevented movable type from replacing woodblock printing. A partial solution for this problem was devised when a system of 214 radicals for Chinese characters was created. However, there were more important factors that contributed to the advantages of woodblock printing. Woodblock printing allowed for more flexibility in design, production, and investment. It offered more mobility and required less skilled labor or capital. Yet as I mentioned before, in some circumstances movable type printing was still more economical than woodblock printing.

A second claim is that the German printing press was faster than printing techniques (woodblock or movable type) in East Asia. Gutenberg's press does have some advantages over its Asian counterparts. But whether it made European printing better than Chinese printing is debatable. Kai-wing Chow writes, "before the nineteenth century, the speed advantages enjoyed by the printing press were offset somewhat by the relative higher cost of European paper and the various religious and political constraints."

Chow, Kai-wing. Publishing, Culture, and Power in Early Modern China. Stanford, Calif.: Stanford University Press, 2004. Tsien, Tsuen-Hsuin, and Joseph Needham. Science and Civilization in China: Paper and Printing Volume 5, Part 1. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1985.

EDIT: Some clarifications.

¹ Type manufactured from wood had previously been tried in Bi Sheng's time, but it did not become technically feasible until three centuries later. The Nong Shu, published in 1313, is the first book to provide a detailed description of the production and use of wooden type.

AskHistorians - Compared to Western Europe, what did reading culture and publishing industry look like in China from the early 16th century to the late 19th century?

China did indeed have an expansive book culture in the late empires. There were huge collections of printed media that circulated throughout the country and these pieces were quite varied in the content and topics they covered. Famously, China invented movable block type during the Northern Song dynasty (10-11th centuries CE) but books printed with movable type circulated in conjunction with works printed using carved woodblocks (xylography) and manuscript works throughout the imperial period. As a matter of fact, movable type seemed to constitute only a relatively small minority of published works in the Ming dynasty for a number of reasons, with cheaper woodblocks remaining dominant as the principal source of cheap print media. All told, the print culture of the late Ming no doubt churned out millions upon millions of books but exact figures are unknown. Surviving works are most definitely floating out there. My alma mater’s East Asian library alone contains almost 8,000 individual volumes from the Ming and Qing dynasties with the oldest digitized materials being a series of compendiums and almanacs from the 16th century. But as far as antiquarian pursuits go… you may have some difficulty with that in (I assume) the west. I have personally stumbled across some old Chinese books while traveling around East Asia but back in those days, I was a poor college student ill-positioned to afford the seemingly princely sums those dusty 18th century tomes commanded.

From a bird’s-eye view, works of the Ming dynasty can be roughly grouped into three loose categories: official publications, sponsored publications, and commercial publications. There are some problems with this categorization, chiefly that many works from the first two categories were also indeed commercially printed and distributed. But generally speaking, the content themes and materials discussed can be broadly categorized in the above manner. Official publications by the state and state officials were quickly identified as important tools of power from the outset of the Ming dynasty. The Hongwu emperor (r. 1368-1398) sanctioned and ordered published numerous handbooks and quick guides to Ming law such as the Da Ming Ling of 1370, a compilation of imperial edicts and instructions. Such works were intended for his officials in order to better inform them of their administrative duties and expectations from the capital. Another example of official publication we see from the first Ming emperor is the Hongwu Zhengyun, a late-14th century rime dictionary of an idealized Mandarin standard that the emperor deemed to be the proper version of the language for his officials to use. Local officials were more often engaged in publishing less far-reaching projects. These were typified by the endless streams of gazetteers compiled by various governing officials all the way down to the lowly country magistrate. Examples of these official periodicals are known from virtually all localities and span the entire length of the Ming dynasty’s near-300-year-rule; if you are so inclined and have university access, the China Comprehensive Gazetteer database contains over 100,000 digitized volumes of such works spanning from the Song dynasty into the People’s Republic.

Sponsored publications were intimately intertwined with the literati class, the members of whom were often the individuals who supported the printing of certain projects. An example that we see during the Ming dynasty involves wealthy families looking to produce facsimiles of rare books. Book collecting formed a part of the scholar-gentry aesthetic seen in the late empire and among these early Chinese antiquarians, no works were more prized than high-quality Song dynasty woodblock works and manuscripts. These Song works were comparatively scarce and those who had them or could access them would commission exact woodblock copies. The classically literate elite were also keen self-publishers, working with printing houses to produce collections of their own essays. It was no coincidence that many high-ranking officials (but also many low officials as well as ‘poor gentry’) were prolifically published essayists or poets. For instance, Mao Kun, a mid-Ming official of the 16th century, published three sets of his own essays between 1564 and 1588 after retiring from civil service. After his death in 1601, his family used his published works to commission and publish a complete edition of his writings, a practice that was certainly not uncommon for the literati class.


But at the end of the Ming dynasty, a major flurry of publishing seen especially in southern China was fueled by a huge boom in commercial print media. Commercial publishers in China’s printing powerhouses – namely the cities of Nanjing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, and Huzhou – churned out all manner of materials for a growing audience of readers. The materials seen would have had to cater to the wide ranges of literacy seen in Ming China and so the variety of materials seen were quite extensive. But a growing market for print media that emerged in the mid-late-Ming which was further fueled by an economic boom thanks to global trade networks meant that the business of printing was becoming ever-more lucrative. On the more ‘official’ end of the commercial printing spectrum, we see what Fujian official Zhang Yue describes in 1530 as a ‘core’ series of texts for “most scholars”. These books would have included titles like the Da Ming Lü and Da Ming Huidian, Confucian canon for the Four Books and Five Classics, as well as the Zhengshi (what we now call the Twenty-Four Histories – but it would have been twenty-three histories during the Ming). Another common scholarly genre of book was the subcategory of imperial examination preparatory materials. These works saw a huge explosion in popularity during the 16th century as attested to by the various comments made by officials regarding the genre like those of the late 16th century officials Li Lian and Li Rihua. Printers would compile large quantities of study materials including high-scoring essays from historical examinations, abridged collections of the orthodox neo-Confucian commentaries on the Canon, and tips or tricks for aspiring examination sitters. Many of these works would have been cheaply printed on bamboo paper intended for wide dissemination and ease-of-access for often cash-strapped students. As a result of these manufacturing choices, however, only a small proportion of such printed works survive into the present. On the less scholarly side of commercial printing, Ming printers also produced “daily-use compendiums”, medical texts, almanacs, erotic material, religious pamphlets, joke books, stories in an increasingly common written vernacular, and informal encyclopedias, among other things. We see works like the Boxiao Zhuji of the late 1500s, variously described as a printed joke cornucopia, a book of drinking games, and a collection of riddles and crude remarks. This period of Chinese printing also coincided with growing use of a written vernacular language – baihua – based upon the prevailing Mandarin dialect of the Ming. Feng Menlong, a failed-examination-candidate-turned-writer, famously compiled roughly 100 short, vernacular stories in the Gujin Xiaoshuo, Jingshi Tongyan, and Xingshi Hengyan. My personal favorite from the collection is “Mai you lang duzhan huakui” – “Oil Peddler and the Queen of Flowers”. Another famous vernacular novel from roughly the same time period is Xiyou Ji, or Journey to the West, the literary inspiration for Black Myth: Wukong. Religious works were also widely printed during the time. We have examples like this wonderfully hand-colored, woodblock print of the Diamond Sutra from roughly 1600.

Other religious prints would not have been so lavishly adorned… cheap flyers and pamphlets from Buddhist monasteries were also commonly produced. Their cheap constitution and low-quality printing, often done on rice paper, meant that virtually none survive into the present. Interestingly though, some European traders took examples back to Europe as curios and subsequent European depictions of these pamphlets mean that we still know what they look like.

All in all, this is just a small and introductory look at the literary culture of late imperial China. The Ming print culture of the 16th and 17th centuries was really a spectacular time for the production of printed media. It also coincided with the production of some of China’s most beloved literary works that continue to be enjoyed into the modern day. The subsequent Qing was similarly prolific in promoting the spread of the written (printed) word, but I’ll leave that discussion to someone who is better-acquainted with Qing history!

Sources (also standing by for any questions!):
Brokaw. "Book History in Premodern China: The State of the Discipline I" in Book History v. 10. Johns Hopkins University Press.
Lin. "Intersecting Boundaries: Manuscript, Printing, and Book Culture in Late Ming China" in Oriens Extremus, v. 52.
Meyer-Fong. "The Printed World: Books, Publishing Culture, and Society in Late Imperial China" in The Journal of Asian Studies, v. 66, n. 3. Association for Asian Studies.
K.T. Wu and K. C. Wu. "Ming Printing and Printers" in Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies, v. 7, n. 3. Harvard-Yenching Institute
Cambridge History of China, Ming Vol. II, Chapter 10 "Communications and Commerce"

I really fucking hate how this forum is too Eurocentric, as if non-European countries in this era were backward savages bereft and in need of European alms, devotion and technology. And it has enabled ill-informed individuals to repeatedly parrot this awful stance, from EU4 to this date, for more than a decade.
 
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Now I'm curious what would be a good dynamic condition for the appearance of the printing revolution institution (that is, the development of a significant "commercial print culture", since obviously the printing press is an advancement, not an institution). Evidently mere presence of printing presses wasn't the case. Given that chunk, it seems that the flurry of commercial print culture came in the late Ming. I wonder why it took as long as it did?

Or whether it actually did, or if we're just missing evidence in our sources of such a significant commercial print culture existing in earlier periods? Gonna have to dig into it more.
 
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Now I'm curious what would be a good dynamic condition for the appearance of the printing revolution institution (that is, the development of a significant "commercial print culture", since obviously the printing press is an advancement, not an institution). Evidently mere presence of printing presses wasn't the case. Given that chunk, it seems that the flurry of commercial print culture came in the late Ming. I wonder why it took as long as it did?

Or whether it actually did, or if we're just missing evidence in our sources of such a significant commercial print culture existing in earlier periods? Gonna have to dig into it more.
Did some investigating. It seems the answer is "we don't know"; there were certainly a good deal of publications throughout the Song and Yuan periods (though less so in the early Ming; there's certainly a measurable decline there), but we simply do not have any sound evidence as to whether there was a distinct "print culture" in the Song period or whether it only really flourished during the late Ming.

So... I guess if I had to bake it into my institutions, it'd be that Confucianism itself imposes some amount of "print culture" (insomuch that there's a demand, though less so, for books and periodicals compared to the printing revolution institution) that the later printing revolution bolsters further. That and it should have no real problem showing up in China once it recovers from the lull in publication that occurred during the early Ming (my inclination as to why there was such a lull is to generally blame the Ming government).
 
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Irrelevant, because printing as an institution and as an industry is already widespread in China. It doesn't matter if they have a thousand characters to block print, but if the Southern Song already had 200 large printing workshops available and wide varieties of printed material in circulation, including porns, treatises, some sort of early magazines, government manuals, administrative ledgers, etc, then the woodblock printing and the movable types they invented had widespread impact already.

Also as to your understanding, you need to understand more.

Here's some reading material:

AskHistorians - Why did the invention of movable type in Germany cause social transformation and intellectual revolution, while the invention of movable type in East Asia didn't?



AskHistorians - Compared to Western Europe, what did reading culture and publishing industry look like in China from the early 16th century to the late 19th century?



I really fucking hate how this forum is too Eurocentric, as if non-European countries in this era were backward savages bereft and in need of European alms, devotion and technology. And it has enabled ill-informed individuals to repeatedly parrot this awful stance, from EU4 to this date, for more than a decade.

Maybe don't be a sensitive prick and stop strawmanning what I said? I never said they were "backwards" I said it didn't result in a revolutionize availability of information like in Europe, since it was already at an equilibrium as a result of having had it for hundreds of years.
 
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Now I'm curious what would be a good dynamic condition for the appearance of the printing revolution institution (that is, the development of a significant "commercial print culture", since obviously the printing press is an advancement, not an institution). Evidently mere presence of printing presses wasn't the case. Given that chunk, it seems that the flurry of commercial print culture came in the late Ming. I wonder why it took as long as it did?

Or whether it actually did, or if we're just missing evidence in our sources of such a significant commercial print culture existing in earlier periods? Gonna have to dig into it more.

(Apologies for the formatting, I’m posting from my phone)

I’d say the issue is less technological, and more to do with whether the society in question has large enough urban/middle class sector to generate enough demand for a commercial print culture. Japan and Korea both had access to woodblock printing since at least the 8th century, but for most of their history it was limited to the government and religious institutions. (Like the Tripitaka Koreana) Things only really started to diverge after Japan underwent massive increases in urbanization and literacy during the Tokugawa/Edo period (1603-1853), which saw the development of Ukiyo-e prints and popular novels like Ihara Saikaku’s “Life of an Amorous Man” (1682) or “Nansou Satomi Hakken” by Takizawa/Kyokutei Bakin (1814-1842). Outside of Hanseong/Seoul Korean society was overwhelmingly rural, and envoys from Joseon tended to be shocked by the commercial development of China and Japan during their visits.

From volume two of Strange Parallels

https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Parallels-Southeast-c-800-1830-Comparative/dp/0521530369

“Until the late 18th century the chief schools were private academies (shijuku) run for samurai and wealthy chonin. Urban at first, by the early 19th century shijuku were tutoring sons of rural traders, village headmen, and well-to-do farmers. From the 1780s and more especially the 1820s three other types of schools also proliferated: official domain academies, chiefly for samurai and thoroughly Confucian in outlook; small parish elementary schools (terakoya), which community leaders founded to provide basic skills for local youths; and schools tied to particular religious sects, whose clientele was also plebian. 333 Supplemented by home tuition, these institutions by 1850 had produced a male literacy rate of 40 to 50 percent and a female rate of perhaps 15 percent. Although these levels were similar to Indic Southeast Asia, unlike those societies but as in France and Russia, in Japan the ability to read remained far less common in the countryside than in cities, where in fact male literacy became normative. 334

Rising literacy supported an urban publishing industry in a push-pull relation reminiscent of France. With similar populations and literacy rates, France in the 1770s and Japan in the 1840s produced annual titles in the same order of magnitude. 335 And in both countries printing was symbiotic with market intensification. From 1690 to 1840 the number of new Japanese titles rose over fivefold, while print runs and the number of bookstores, rental libraries, and itinerant lenders also increased markedly. Edo in 1808 had as many lending libraries as barbershops and bathhouses. 336 But if Japanese publishing resembled France in its urban focus, Japan's print revolution relied not on movable type, but woodblocks (which proved more economical and better able to reproduce Japanese script 337) and took root in the 1590s, almost a century after comparable developments in Europe. Japan's chronology reflected, above all, rapid urban growth associated with unification.”

“335 Some 1,500 titles a year in France and 1,000 in Japan, with editions of 500–1,000 in both cases, according to Smith, “History of the Book,” 335–36. However, Yonemoto, Mapping, 15 suggests that on average over 3,000 titles per year were published during the entire Tokugawa period. Berry, Japan in Print, 31 refers to 7,000 titles in print in Kyoto alone in 1692. Discussion of commercial publishing, including French comparisons, draws on these three sources, esp. Berry, Japan in Print, chs. 2, 6, plus Berry, “Was Early Modern Japan Integrated?” 116–35; Peter Kornicki, The Book in Japan (Leiden, 1998), chs. 1, 4–9; Ikegami, Bonds of Civility, esp. ch. 11; Moriya, “Urban Networks,” 114–18; Shively, “Popular Culture,” 725–33.”


Woodblock printing was invented in China under the Tang dynasty, and eventually migrated to Japan in the late 700s, where it was first used to reproduce foreign literature.[2] In 764 the Empress Kōken commissioned one million small wooden pagodas, each containing a small woodblock scroll printed with a Buddhist text (Hyakumantō Darani). These were distributed to temples around the country as thanks for the suppression of the Emi Rebellion of 764. These are the earliest examples of woodblock printing known, or documented, from Japan.[3]

By the eleventh century, Buddhist temples in Japan produced printed books of sutras, mandalas, and other Buddhist texts and images. For centuries, printing was mainly restricted to the Buddhist sphere, as it was too expensive for mass production, and did not have a receptive, literate public as a market. However, an important set of fans of the late Heian period(12th century), containing painted images and Buddhist sutras, reveal from loss of paint that the underdrawing for the paintings was printed from blocks.[4] In the Kamakura period from the 12th century to the 13th century, many books were printed and published by woodblock printing at Buddhist temples in Kyoto and Kamakura.[3]

From “A New Middle Kingdom: Painting and Cultural Politics in Late Choson Korea (1700-1850)”


“Most Korean visitors to Japan were genuinely impressed by the prosperity of its urban life and the vigor of its markets and commerce. Even as early as 1607, Kyöng Sõm (1562-1620), vice ambassador of the first envoy after the Japanese invasion, expressed amazement at the obvious wealth.

{The streets are neatly organized and commoners' houses are well maintained. The goods are piled high in the stores of the market. They trade with China, Holland, Portugal, Ryuku, and others. There is no country too distant for them to reach. Many regions in the Kanto area as well as Iwami, Tan'go, and Nagato prefectures produce silver and gold in enormous amounts. In the market, they use bronze coins brought from China. The merchants form huge crowds everywhere and the state flourishes. Their market system is very similar to that of China.}

Such admiration is also found frequently in records written by later visitors. Kang Hongjung (1577-1642), who visited Japan in 1624, noted: "The goods are stored in great abundance at the market while commoners' houses have plenty of rice. The wealth of their people and the richness of their commodities are well beyond comparison with our state.?»80 Sin Yuhan also made a similar observation about Japanese economic prosperity and its amazing network for international trade. 81”

“Another area that dazzled the Korean envoys in Japan was the print culture and book trade, which was far advanced compared with Korea and even Qing China. Most Korean visitors to Japan in the eighteenth century could not fail to recognize the flourishing print culture in terms of both its quality and quantity. Sin Yuhan was amazed by bookstores in Osaka where he found not only hundreds of books from Korea, but also thousands from China. He estimated that the size of the publication market in Osaka alone was ten times larger than in all of Korea.85 Similarly, Chõng Yagyong, in a letter to his second son, explained how Japanese scholarship benefited from their superb book industry: "In retrospect, Japan originally obtained books from Paekche [an ancient kingdom in Korea, 18 BCE-660 CE]. The Japanese were quite uncultivated in the beginning. However, since they traded directly with Jiangsu and Zhejiang [in China], there is no good book that they have not obtained. Furthermore, Japan does not have the evil practice of state examinations; thus, nowadays their scholarship is ahead of us. How shameful it is!"86

Nevertheless, even as they recognized the superior economic prosperity in Japan, some other Choson visitors remained trapped in the age-old confidence that justified their underdeveloped commerce and poor living conditions: they celebrated the relative poverty of their society as a sign of their frugal lifestyle, a virtue that harkened back to puritan Confucianism.

For example, Cho Öm disparaged the high degree of prosperity in Japan as an unnecessary luxury.® Even Sin Yuhan, who acknowledged Japanese economic prowess, simultaneously tried to tarnish its success by excoriating the men's hairstyle and the samurai's practice of carrying swords. He claimed that such customs were clearly aberrant in an authentically Confucian civilization. The implication in such comments was that regardless of their economic development, the Japanese remained a barbaric state and inferior to civilized Korea. Such nitpicking ethnocentrism was later criticized by more progressive Korean scholars. Chõng Yagyong reprimanded Sin Yuhan for failing to learn anything useful from Japan during his mission. Chõng decried the Choson diplomats' hubris as inexcusable since it prevented them from seeing the positives of Japanese civilization. 84“

“Wön Chunggõ (1719-1790), after his 1763 visit to Japan, offered an evaluation of the Japanese in terms of their literary talent. His comment suggests that attitudes toward Japanese culture at large were changing among the elite Koreans.

{Overall, the people in this country are keen and intelligent from an early age. At four or five, they can wield a brush and by their early teens they can even compose poetry. Among their women are many who can write poetry and create calligraphy. It is quite like Chinese women who so indulge in poetry writing that they neglect their other duties. Therefore, it is not an exaggeration to call [Japan] the home of civilization in the ocean.89}“


Two years after Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations was published in 1776, Pak Chega’s (1750–1805) Discourse on Northern Learning appeared on the opposite corner of the globe. Both books presented notions of wealth and the economy for critical review: the former caused a stir across Europe, the latter influenced only a modest group of Chosŏn (1392–1897) Korea scholars and other intellectuals. Nevertheless, the ideas of both thinkers closely reflected the spirit of their times and helped define certain schools of thought—in the case of Pak, Northern Learning (Pukhak), which disparaged the Chosŏn Neo-Confucian state ideology as inert and ineffective.

Years of humiliation and resentment against the conquering Manchus blinded many Korean elites to the scientific and technological advances made in Qing China (1644–1911). They despised its rulers as barbarians and begrudged Qing China’s status as their suzerain state. But Pak saw Korea’s northern neighbor as a model of economic and social reform. He and like-minded progressives discussed and corroborated views about the superiority of China’s civilization. After traveling to Beijing in 1776, Pak wrote Discourse on Northern Learning, in which he favorably introduced many aspects of China’s economy and culture. By comparison, he argued, Korea’s economy was depressed, the result of inadequate government policies and the selfishness of a privileged upper class. He called for drastic reforms in agriculture and industry and for opening the country to international trade. In a series of short essays, Pak gives us rare insights into life on the ground in late eighteenth-century Korea, and in the many details he supplies on Chinese farming, trade, and other commercial activities, his work provides a window onto everyday life in Qing China.

Students and specialists of Korean history, particularly social reform movements, and Chosŏn-Qing relations will welcome this new translation.

(I have the book somewhere but I haven’t been able to find it yet, so I’ve just posted the description for now)
 
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Alright, so I think a significant number of burghers (as representative of a "middle class" as we'll ever get in this game) as well as already having books and periodicals present in the market should be able to instigate a "printing revolution". That much does seem to be a fair trigger for that one. Confucianism (as an institution) also increases the demand for books and periodicals to an extent, since I'm tying in "meritocracy" into a broader thing wit that one. Not as significant, but generally speaking reflective of a broader "meritocratic tendency" among other things that therefore encourages more consumption of books and periodicals but not as much as a full-fledged commercial printing industry.

Thanks for helping me sort that one out; was concerned for a moment that I might need to scrap the whole "printing revolution" institution altogether.
 
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Did some investigating. It seems the answer is "we don't know"; there were certainly a good deal of publications throughout the Song and Yuan periods (though less so in the early Ming; there's certainly a measurable decline there), but we simply do not have any sound evidence as to whether there was a distinct "print culture" in the Song period or whether it only really flourished during the late Ming.

So... I guess if I had to bake it into my institutions, it'd be that Confucianism itself imposes some amount of "print culture" (insomuch that there's a demand, though less so, for books and periodicals compared to the printing revolution institution) that the later printing revolution bolsters further. That and it should have no real problem showing up in China once it recovers from the lull in publication that occurred during the early Ming (my inclination as to why there was such a lull is to generally blame the Ming government).
Here's one for the Song:

AskHistorians - In school I was told Gutenberg invented printing, my Chinese friend tells me china already had invented it before

Chinese print culture would reach greater heights under the Song dynasty. Printed books were produced in thirty locations during the Northern Song (960–1127), but by the Southern Song (1127–1279), they were produced in nearly two hundred locations, despite the Song dynasty having lost a large chunk of their territory to the Jurchens. This increase in the production of books benefited from government sponsorship and a growing commercial book industry. Printed books were now available in every subject imaginable, including works on medicine, agriculture, mathematics, dictionaries, literary anthologies, geography, novels, dramas, philosophy, and so on.

The Song dynasty also witnessed major technological advances in printing, most notably the invention of movable type by Bi Sheng. Bi Sheng used earthernware type for printing, which while notable for being the earliest known form of movable type that predates Gutenberg by 400 years, was overshadowed by Wang Zhen's invention of a practical wooden movable type. Not only did Wang pioneer wooden movable type, he also was responsible for mechanical innovations that significantly improved the speed of typesetting. Wang describes the process of producing wooden type in his Nong Shu, a treatise on agriculture:

Now, however, there is another method that is both more exact and more convenient. A compositor's forme is made of wood, strips of bamboo are used to mark the lines and a block is engraved with characters. The block is then cut into squares with a small fine saw till each character forms a separate piece. These separate characters are finished offwith a knife on all four sides, and compared and tested till they are exactly the same height and size. Then the types are placed in the columns [of the forme] and bamboo strips which have been prepared are pressed in between them. After the types have all been set in the forme, the spaces are filled in with wooden plugs, so that the type is perfectly firm and will not move. When the type is absolutely firm, the ink is smeared on and printing begins.

And on literary rates in Ancient China:

AskHistorians - How literate was Ancient China?

Apologies for the short post, as this forum has character limits per post.
 
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Yep, that mostly aligns with what I read elsewhere. We don't necessarily know to what extent the printing boom of the Ming exceeded levels of printing during the height of the Southern Song, but it certainly seems reasonable to conclude that something about the Ming printing boom was different than what was going on during the Song.

Which is to say, that a "printing revolution" institution still makes perfect sense.
 
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