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unmerged(268957)

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Feb 16, 2011
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  • Cities in Motion
Was just playing a quick sandbox game on my newly purchased Paris map. Had a decent system set up; 4 metro lines (2 serving the apartments & railway stations north of the Seine, 1 serving the south & one connecting to the airport), as well as 3 bus lines (2 south of the river & 1 linking the railway stations on either bank). Unfortunately, it didn't take long for the bus lines to become popular, and before I knew it there were over 80 people waiting for a bus that could only take 14 & only moved at 30mph (or whatever unit of measurement the "Speed" stat represents).

It was only after I started replacing 2 of my bus routes with tram rail that I came to an epiphany, one that, to be honest, I've had many times before: Buses in CiM are totally useless! Or rather, they may have very limited uses, but in almost every regard they simply cannot compare to trams. Note that I was playing back in 1920, but even then the worst tram I could get would still carry about double the passengers (26, if memory serves, as opposed to 14) at double the speed (60 compared to 30). And the next better tram (the stylish double-decker that comes with the Paris expansion), while fairly slow at only 40, can carry a whopping 44 passengers!

For those confused by these seemingly erroneous stats, note that I am using the excellent Vehicles Redone Mod, without which I find the game to be borderline unplayable.

Sure, there are cons to trams. It costs money to build all those tracks for them, they cost more to run than buses. But overall, I find that the pros outweigh the cons every time.

And speaking of pros, add to the list that you can build tram tracks on tiles other than roads! While this can become a pain sometimes due to the occasionally questionable design of some maps, it means that 1. your tram lines can sometimes be shorter than your road-reliant buses, & more importantly 2. your trams can stay out of the traffic longer. This comes especially in handy on maps like Amsterdam, where even with the Private Traffic option turned down, I still find traffic jams emerging. Besides, with their higher carrying capacity & higher speeds, a good, busy tram line & pay for itself several times over with ease.

So where does this leave buses? Well, I have found some uses for them, but these mostly rely on their cheapness more than anything else. I've found them useful for serving low-density residential neighborhoods & places where it wouldn't be economical to use anything else, like those farms that you often find on the outskirts of town that laugh at your attempts to get 100% coverage. Also, on the Tutorial Town map, I've come up with a nifty 1-2 punch of bus & ferry to serve the airport (take a bus from the main terminal to a ferry dock next to the stadium, then a ferry to the railway station, where I always put my central transfer). But for densely packed areas, the downtown districts, the real money-makers, buses are totally out of their depth.

This is all one man's experiences though. I am sure there will be those on the board here that disagree with me, or have found different conclusions. I would like to encourage everyone who is interested to post their own anecdotes. I'll be interested to read what others have found.
 
I use buses to "feed" the metro stations. Short lines with up to 5 stops that cover a few blocks. Each metro station serves as a local hub, with buses going out to the surrounding area. This way most passengers will use 2-3 transport types which also means more money for me.
Long bus lines are useless in most cases, very hard to get them to be profitable.
 
i use buses heavily on the Paris map. The articulated and double decker buses have a fair capacity, speed comparable to trams...I use buses in the outskirts to feed metro and tram lines. Also i use buses and trams to give simple connections among different metro lines. (my metro lines mostly go east-west and north-south, so i put diagonal connections between some stops).
 
I use buses exclusively for going around the houses to bring people to the tram or Metro lines. There are routes where a bus might make a little money but a tram will just be overly expensive and lose you money.

If you have any route with so many people that want to use it then I'd surmise that you have the wrong kind of transport for that area or you have too many stops on that route and so it covers too many preferred destinations. Figure out where they are going that is so fantastic and get your bus route off of that place and replace it with a tram.

Buses are fine for the burbs, once you find somewhere that seems popular then drop a tram in or if very popular a metro.
 
I use capacity mod, so this post may not be of value for your problem sirrliv.

I've experienced that the buses are great in most areas, but there are o/c areas there are more logic to use a bus than a tram and vice versa.
But it will depend on good coverage in your map.
My last maps, in sandbox mode, I have used fairly long metro lines with as few stops as possible for better efficiency. I tend to use 10 to 15 stop bus lines or even more to feed the metro. This model has worked very well for me since the buses actually do space out and they run evenly if you're cautious when laying them. Try not to make stops in places where buses tend to get blocked from traffic, pedestrians, other bus lines or what ever it may be, that is alfa omega for a bus/tram line. It can be hard in some places and some times I need to build a metro station around a bus stop instead of the other way around, which can feel more logical.
 
For those confused by these seemingly erroneous stats, note that I am using the excellent Vehicles Redone Mod, without which I find the game to be borderline unplayable.

Which says it all, really. I was about to try Vehicles Redone, mainly for the timeline fixes of DLC vehicles. But when I read about all of the other tweaks to capacities and prices I felt it would break the game balance, making other modes of transport so economical and useful as to make buses completely unappealing. Which is why I didn't install it. I'm not at all surprised you have come to the conclusion that "buses are useless" while you are using this mod.

Everyone else is quite right - I agree 100% with all of the other replies to date.
Buses are ideal for collecting passengers around low density suburbs / remote farms and feeding them to trams and metros.
Buses also work extremely well in early era maps, where towns are small and have little population to generate many passengers or traffic. As the town grows and passenger numbers increase, the buses get superceded by trams and metros as needed.
In modern times (post 1970) buses will never have the capacity to cope with passenger numbers in dense cities. I think vanilla CiM captures this progression and balance very well, even if it does so by using somewhat contrived and artifical stats for the various vehicles (and towns!).
But Vehicles Redone significantly skews the economics and capacity balance against the bus, so it will have much less useful application (both in period and location). Go figure.

I think buses are an essential part of the game, and that the original game balance is necessary to make it thus.
On the other hand, the DLC vehicles (buses in particular, and the Prospecta Experimental tram) do break it somewhat. I found it a much more challenging (and rewarding!) game to play when avoiding using DLC vehicles altogether. Which is why I was keen on getting the timeline fixes offered by Vehicles Redone. But rather than break the game balance in a different way, I'd rather just keep on ignoring the DLC vehicles.

As for being "borderline unplayable without this mod", well, if it was I doubt there would be so many users here that like the game so much. I'd certainly disagree with you 110% on that, as I find it to be easily the best balanced simulation I've played in the last decade.
I agree there is certainly variation in how well or badly gamers get along with CiM. We could debate why all day, and while I have my own opinions about the keys to doing well in this game, it's probably best to not go there........

To conclude, I'll agree that IF you use the Vehicles Redone mod, then buses will be less useful. But that's not at all surprising when you analyse the changes the mod makes.
 
also let me add that while one bus line may not earn profit, if it feeds other tram and metro lines, the profit will be higher on those AND you have a better coverage on the whole city. In my experience you can't have all your lines in green and have full coverage and good services at the same time. So i don't mind that i loose some money on a bus or tram line as long as it feeds other lines, makes transportation for the CiMs easier (less changes and more direct travel) as long as my balance is still positive at the end of the month.
 
In my current Vienna goes green (scenario 6) save I have 21 bus routes and about 15 tram routes. No metro, boats or helis. I'm trying to follow the wishes of the scenario since Helis are supposed to be banned and the Metro is supposedly not green enough. I rarely use boats as they always get stuck :(

I think the last time I looked about 70% of my bus lines were turning a profit according to line stats 5.6. Those that were not were not that bad and might just have been new routes, I cannot recall.
 
also let me add that while one bus line may not earn profit, if it feeds other tram and metro lines, the profit will be higher on those AND you have a better coverage on the whole city. In my experience you can't have all your lines in green and have full coverage and good services at the same time. So i don't mind that i loose some money on a bus or tram line as long as it feeds other lines, makes transportation for the CiMs easier (less changes and more direct travel) as long as my balance is still positive at the end of the month.
Very good point