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I think I am experiencing the same issue, but it is behaving differently in different cities making this difficult to diagnose.

In one city (population around 500,000) Vanilla view says there are no homeless, but infoloom shows over 500. Developer Mode includes a "Remove All HomelessHousehold" option, but this doesn't remove these "hidden" homeless. This city does NOT have a commuter problem. In this city, the simulation periodically "dumps" all of these households (screenshot below), leading to an ongoing ~10K drop in population. This seems like a bug (I will submit a separate bug report to see if I get an answer).
Homeless Mismatch.png

Households Drop.png

In the other city (pop around 250k), there are over 12K commuters, but no mismatch between Vanilla and "hidden" homeless households. "Remove All HomelessHousehold" works on the homeless cims. I feel like this city is behaving correctly - it does not experience the periodic "dumps" of households. But there are still a LOT of homeless despite low unemployment (around 3.4%), and I think this is caused by the commuter issue Hubbubb17 found.

Anyone here have insight into what is going on? This thread is the closest I have found to others experiencing the same kind of problem.
 

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I think I am experiencing the same issue, but it is behaving differently in different cities making this difficult to diagnose.

In one city (population around 500,000) Vanilla view says there are no homeless, but infoloom shows over 500. Developer Mode includes a "Remove All HomelessHousehold" option, but this doesn't remove these "hidden" homeless. This city does NOT have a commuter problem. In this city, the simulation periodically "dumps" all of these households (screenshot below), leading to an ongoing ~10K drop in population. This seems like a bug (I will submit a separate bug report to see if I get an answer).
View attachment 1271996
View attachment 1271995
In the other city (pop around 250k), there are over 12K commuters, but no mismatch between Vanilla and "hidden" homeless households. "Remove All HomelessHousehold" works on the homeless cims. I feel like this city is behaving correctly - it does not experience the periodic "dumps" of households. But there are still a LOT of homeless despite low unemployment (around 3.4%), and I think this is caused by the commuter issue Hubbubb17 found.

Anyone here have insight into what is going on? This thread is the closest I have found to others experiencing the same kind of problem.
I wonder if you're seeing a reporting cycle mismatch? I've always seen data differences, and assumed that was because the Population screen is showing numbers of homeless, whereas the InfoLoom screen shows the number of homeless households (personally, I find the latter data point to be more meaningful) -- but I've never seen my population screen drop to zero.

If you're willing to share your save file, I'm a nerd for looking at other people's cities.

Also, I did submit a bug report, and added a follow-up comment which perhaps helps elaborate my questions better:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...eve-really-just-exported-the-problem.1733120/
 
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I think I am experiencing the same issue, but it is behaving differently in different cities making this difficult to diagnose.

In one city (population around 500,000) Vanilla view says there are no homeless, but infoloom shows over 500. Developer Mode includes a "Remove All HomelessHousehold" option, but this doesn't remove these "hidden" homeless. This city does NOT have a commuter problem. In this city, the simulation periodically "dumps" all of these households (screenshot below), leading to an ongoing ~10K drop in population. This seems like a bug (I will submit a separate bug report to see if I get an answer).

In the other city (pop around 250k), there are over 12K commuters, but no mismatch between Vanilla and "hidden" homeless households. "Remove All HomelessHousehold" works on the homeless cims. I feel like this city is behaving correctly - it does not experience the periodic "dumps" of households. But there are still a LOT of homeless despite low unemployment (around 3.4%), and I think this is caused by the commuter issue Hubbubb17 found.

Anyone here have insight into what is going on? This thread is the closest I have found to others experiencing the same kind of problem.
Can confirm periodic population dumps AND a ballooning Homeless stat in Residential info loom tab.
Screenshot 2025-03-26 121340.png

That said it does seem to correlate with the monthly deathwave of seniors. The problem seems to be that citizens get stuck in limbo instead of filling in these now vacant properties.

Screenshot 2025-03-26 121610.png


minutes later, massive drop. 25k households newly vacant, 35k new limbo homeless. 232 "officially homeless", but only 2k actual population drop.

Screenshot 2025-03-26 122622.png
 
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Good observations. Any reason why these cims getting caught in limbo might be happening in some save files but not others?

It's annoying, because it is causing the job market to collapse as well after each monthly "dump" creates hundreds of empty households and crashes RCI demand. And as the households are gradually re-filled, they are with seniors and adults without children, so there is no "next generation" of citizens - so to speak.

And I don't mind sharing my file. I uploaded it along with a bug report - I think anyone can download the file from there. But for some reason the forum isn't letting me post the link - look for the "Hidden" Homeless Households bug report.
 
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That said it does seem to correlate with the monthly deathwave of seniors.
I've seen this too ... it's like someone flips a switch and they all pass away at once. That said, with appropriate crematorium capacity I've been able to keep up with this.
The problem seems to be that citizens get stuck in limbo instead of filling in these now vacant properties.
I wonder ... they did seem to have addressed the departure mechanics, but I wonder if they ever sorted out the 128-cims-at-the-front-of-the-line logical problem they created for themselves.

With respect to the sheer volume of unhoused cims in your game, I would note that in my current city I only have 20 total unhoused households (per InfoLoom). I use a very aggressive (progressive) residential tax schedule to incentize cims to depart quickly. You can see the unhoused number peeking through on the far right of the screen.
1743014097544.png


attached the save if you want to look at it...
 

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Good observations. Any reason why these cims getting caught in limbo might be happening in some save files but not others?

It's annoying, because it is causing the job market to collapse as well after each monthly "dump" creates hundreds of empty households and crashes RCI demand. And as the households are gradually re-filled, they are with seniors and adults without children, so there is no "next generation" of citizens - so to speak.

And I don't mind sharing my file. I uploaded it along with a bug report - I think anyone can download the file from there. But for some reason the forum isn't letting me post the link - look for the "Hidden" Homeless Households bug report.
I have seen other reports that offices are slowly losing their total jobs, eventually ending up at 5. I have not been able to find evidence of this. That said, the drops feel about the size of a 6x6 office building in terms of volume -- but all at once and not a trickle.

I should clarify that this massive 25k unit / 35k "homeless" shift only resulted in a 2k population drop. I am not seeing the per-load 30k drops as consistently anymore, just the monthly 3-10k population drops and these ~20k shifts from housed to limbo.

My save file is 3M so these numbers are tiny statistically speaking.

I notice that my pathfinder is completely consumed by leisure and taxis. Is possible this anniversary update sent everyone in the city to the park, pub, or adventure commerce spot in an effort to make the game feel more lively. In my case, it could be taking precedence over the prior top FindJob and HouseholdFindProperty. But those are all near 100.

Screenshot 2025-03-26 131142.png
Screenshot 2025-03-26 131347.png



Screenshot 2025-03-26 101852.png

Screenshot 2025-03-26 090527.png


Screenshot 2025-03-26 090327.png
 
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Good observations. Any reason why these cims getting caught in limbo might be happening in some save files but not others?

It's annoying, because it is causing the job market to collapse as well after each monthly "dump" creates hundreds of empty households and crashes RCI demand. And as the households are gradually re-filled, they are with seniors and adults without children, so there is no "next generation" of citizens - so to speak.

And I don't mind sharing my file. I uploaded it along with a bug report - I think anyone can download the file from there. But for some reason the forum isn't letting me post the link - look for the "Hidden" Homeless Households bug report.

Holy smokes, this is an insanely successful city! I'm in awe.

I think an answer to one of your questions is simple math:
1743015662146.png


.05%

I didn't realize how huge your city is. It may be that the game simply can't show a value this small as a percentage ... that doesn't explain, however, why the absolute value of unhoused cims in your population screen shows zero.

The monthly dump question also makes sense now. I have seen that. Mine always seems to recover somewhat quickly, although sometimes it can be a little bit pokey. I'm guessing because my city is half the size of yours it hasn't been a problem that I've really felt yet. Your city is immense, so such a huge volume of seniors passing away may impact your demand bars differently than in a city of only 190K.

I'm not sure how to correct the demand issue. I often try to induce demand by lowering my tax rates, but yours are already pretty low. I also play with an eagle eye on the demand bars, so that I can keep them balanced as a I play (a conditioned habit from SimCity 2000).

I'm not sure how you fix the monthly dead cim dump w/o attempting to expand the lower educated end of your economy. The better educated end of your economy is stable. My guess is most of those cims dying are retired, so there are no higher paying jobs to fill that inbound cims could occupy.

I understand the dilemma with respect to residential demand bars. With the anniversary patch, it does seem to me that the commercial demand bar is far more sensitive to residential demand for consumer goods. So it makes sense that when your residential demand crashes your consumer demand would as well. I would like to think that if I have a surplus of jobs and homes available, That would entice younger workers.

Also, what kinds of residences are being vacated by those passed away cims? A younger worker may not have the wealth to afford rent in a high-density apartment. Maybe you have a mismatch between education levels of the open jobs and education levels necessary to be able to afford a higher rent apartment?

I think this may be at last part of the issue ... your highest levels of unemployment are at the uneducated and poorly educated end of the labor pool, while the vast majority of unfilled jobs are at the top end of the labor market. Any incoming uneducated and poorly educated workers are not hirable at those higher level jobs. And they also probably can't afford the rent for those apartments either. So they either enter the city, become unhoused, and then leave quickly -- or they don't enter the city at all.

Ironically, you have very few unhoused cims and you also have very few commuters, which I read to mean that the uneducated and poorly educated workers are finding affordable housing in your city.

1743016820214.png


Also, you have about 3.5K unfilled jobs in this city. Is that a result of the monthly death wave or is that systemic to your economy? I'm not sure, but I've always assumed that the jobs market also affects RICO demand. In other words, the game signals you to build more commercial, for example, when there are more consumers--but ALSO when there is a surplus of poorly educated and educated workers.

As I was investigating, this happened in Sept 2038:
1743019655682.png

All of a sudden you have several thousand newly unhoused workers at the higher educated end of your economy.

I wonder ... if you start a new city in another location on the map, then you can establish it as a district and that would help you keep track of its demographics. My inclination is to say you simultaneously need high density housing for those unhoused cims. My guess is your game removes them quickly enough you may not be aware of the phenomenon. New cims will come in to fill office jobs, but they can't find homes because elderly cims have snatched them up--so they become homeless and then quickly leave (but I'm not sure why they wouldn't then become commuters).

On the other end, you need to expand your industrial and low density commercial sectors to provide jobs for those cims at the lower end of the education spectrum.

Maybe a bunch of high density affordable housing projects, adjacent more extractor enterprises and industrial parks? That would provide homes for cims at all education levels

Lastly--and I'm loath to recommend this because it can create a lot of volatility in a stable system--but I often lower my taxes in order to induce demand. You have a lot of money in the bank. Maybe you run at a deficit for a little while in order to induce demand for the bars that won't bounce back?

Another thought ... you could build and zone that second city knowing it won't immediately zone in ... and then just let the game run. If I'm understanding everything correctly, there will be some moments when demand briefly returns ... if you have everything pre-zoned then buildings will spawn during those moments when the demand bars pop back up. That might be enough to get the apple cart rolling again. If you zone out a new city first, THEN drop your tax rates to induce demand, you might be able to jump start the expansion process.

[I suggest that knowing that your city is already at 450K population, so I can't imagine how your computer handles all this.]

Also ... I've been trying to live without mods as much as possible, but there is a demand mod available for CS2:

https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/86944/Windows

over 10K subscribers and 140 thumbs-up ...

probably safe to use, but read the forum chat.
 

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i'd say they 'fixed' the homeless problem like they 'fixed' the mail problem - by faking a fix.
the game is comprehensively broken. if you build anything above about 100-150k, at some point traffic basically disappears, there are no parked cars any more, crematoriums stop working, or only work intermittedely, etc.
and fwiw, cim census still reports a TON of homeless....
 
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Thanks for taking the deep dive and for the complements on the city! I have spent a lot of time planning this city and don't want it to collapse.

To answer your question about the low number of only 234 homeless in my initial screenshot, I think that is just because I produced that screenshot shortly after re-loading the game and after one of the dumps. It quickly rebounded and is now back at 3758. Same goes for the unfilled workplaces - it spikes after a population dump (presumably leading to individual companies reducing their workforce), and is now back down to less than 200.

Perhaps there are also some clues in this screenshot about if the gap is with low, medium, or high residential properties. This screenshot shows -9176 low residential properties, with positive numbers for medium and high. How is it possible to have more occupied low density residential properties than total properties? Wouldn't this also mean there should be demand in this sector but not the others?
Residential Demand Screenshot.png


This does line up though with what you are saying about my city needing more jobs and housing for lower-educated though. Perhaps the negative number of empty properties simply reflects the scale of the lack of available low density units?

The problem I have always had, and the reason my low-education tax level is so high (compared to the others) is that companies level up so quickly that high-education jobs have outpaced the education rates in my city. I have used various strategies to try to get citizens to attend school, including incentivizing higher education with tax rates, and the current state of the city also reflects all of the updates made to the game over the past year or so. I used to need a LOT more elementary schools for example (especially because my companies were creating so many high-education jobs). I don't want to delete them all though, because the recent "dumps" have created a drop in the percentage of children, which will presumably recover once the population stabilizes a bit and I will need the school capacity again.

I also used to have bigger industrial areas, but the most recent patch GREATLY reduced my unemployment, so I actually demolished entire industrial districts to account for this.

I have been thinking about expanding my outer-suburbs with more low-density where the land values are lower. I also like the idea of some affordable housing near the industrial areas. I can tinker with this and see if anything works.
 
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Holy smokes, this is an insanely successful city! I'm in awe.

I think an answer to one of your questions is simple math:
View attachment 1272044

.05%

I didn't realize how huge your city is. It may be that the game simply can't show a value this small as a percentage ... that doesn't explain, however, why the absolute value of unhoused cims in your population screen shows zero.

The monthly dump question also makes sense now. I have seen that. Mine always seems to recover somewhat quickly, although sometimes it can be a little bit pokey. I'm guessing because my city is half the size of yours it hasn't been a problem that I've really felt yet. Your city is immense, so such a huge volume of seniors passing away may impact your demand bars differently than in a city of only 190K.

I'm not sure how to correct the demand issue. I often try to induce demand by lowering my tax rates, but yours are already pretty low. I also play with an eagle eye on the demand bars, so that I can keep them balanced as a I play (a conditioned habit from SimCity 2000).

I'm not sure how you fix the monthly dead cim dump w/o attempting to expand the lower educated end of your economy. The better educated end of your economy is stable. My guess is most of those cims dying are retired, so there are no higher paying jobs to fill that inbound cims could occupy.

I understand the dilemma with respect to residential demand bars. With the anniversary patch, it does seem to me that the commercial demand bar is far more sensitive to residential demand for consumer goods. So it makes sense that when your residential demand crashes your consumer demand would as well. I would like to think that if I have a surplus of jobs and homes available, That would entice younger workers.

Also, what kinds of residences are being vacated by those passed away cims? A younger worker may not have the wealth to afford rent in a high-density apartment. Maybe you have a mismatch between education levels of the open jobs and education levels necessary to be able to afford a higher rent apartment?

I think this may be at last part of the issue ... your highest levels of unemployment are at the uneducated and poorly educated end of the labor pool, while the vast majority of unfilled jobs are at the top end of the labor market. Any incoming uneducated and poorly educated workers are not hirable at those higher level jobs. And they also probably can't afford the rent for those apartments either. So they either enter the city, become unhoused, and then leave quickly -- or they don't enter the city at all.

Ironically, you have very few unhoused cims and you also have very few commuters, which I read to mean that the uneducated and poorly educated workers are finding affordable housing in your city.

Also, you have about 3.5K unfilled jobs in this city. Is that a result of the monthly death wave or is that systemic to your economy? I'm not sure, but I've always assumed that the jobs market also affects RICO demand. In other words, the game signals you to build more commercial, for example, when there are more consumers--but ALSO when there is a surplus of poorly educated and educated workers.

As I was investigating, this happened in Sept 2038:

All of a sudden you have several thousand newly unhoused workers at the higher educated end of your economy.

I wonder ... if you start a new city in another location on the map, then you can establish it as a district and that would help you keep track of its demographics. My inclination is to say you simultaneously need high density housing for those unhoused cims. My guess is your game removes them quickly enough you may not be aware of the phenomenon. New cims will come in to fill office jobs, but they can't find homes because elderly cims have snatched them up--so they become homeless and then quickly leave (but I'm not sure why they wouldn't then become commuters).

On the other end, you need to expand your industrial and low density commercial sectors to provide jobs for those cims at the lower end of the education spectrum.

Maybe a bunch of high density affordable housing projects, adjacent more extractor enterprises and industrial parks? That would provide homes for cims at all education levels

Lastly--and I'm loath to recommend this because it can create a lot of volatility in a stable system--but I often lower my taxes in order to induce demand. You have a lot of money in the bank. Maybe you run at a deficit for a little while in order to induce demand for the bars that won't bounce back?

Another thought ... you could build and zone that second city knowing it won't immediately zone in ... and then just let the game run. If I'm understanding everything correctly, there will be some moments when demand briefly returns ... if you have everything pre-zoned then buildings will spawn during those moments when the demand bars pop back up. That might be enough to get the apple cart rolling again. If you zone out a new city first, THEN drop your tax rates to induce demand, you might be able to jump start the expansion process.

[I suggest that knowing that your city is already at 450K population, so I can't imagine how your computer handles all this.]

Also ... I've been trying to live without mods as much as possible, but there is a demand mod available for CS2:

https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/86944/Windows

over 10K subscribers and 140 thumbs-up ...

probably safe to use, but read the forum chat.

Thanks for your analysis.

Ironically the 100k uneducated are in my city due to a bug with Demand Master Control. I have the tax set at 19% but they are entrenched and certainly not the ones leaving. I'm still using DMC to modify the outside connection to eliminate any cims moving in without education. Before Anniversary update I also needed Super Fast Building and Leveling, but no longer use that to generate demand.

Screenshot 2025-03-26 145509.png


I have no issue starting a 2k per hour population increase. The problem is it will climb steadily cim by cim for about 50 minutes, then it will toggle and instantly drop 2k and lose all that arrived. 10 minutes later DMC will catch up and after about 50 minutes the population will be back where it was.

Screenshot 2025-03-26 145535.png


In these "dumps" I see the documented drastic drop in occupied Residential units and a corresponding jump in "homeless".

Perhaps this is the new "adult cims wait for housing and a nest-egg" before moving system at work. The issue is simulation speed in my case, it just feels like it takes ages for a cim to move in (6 months?) where before it would be 60 seconds or maybe 6 game-minutes.

The save file I'm using is Oct44. The one uploaded had a specific issue, the population would drop instantly by 30k on first resume. If you save-as, then load again, it would drop again by 30k.

I'm no longer seeing that issue, so maybe it just naturally worked its way out. Once the leisure / taxi requests die down I will upload a new version. My time right now has been spent converting commercial into office and I'm probably about 1,000 buildings down. I'd estimate I have another 2,000 to go before the commercial to office ratio is stable with the new patch.
 
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In these "dumps" I see the documented drastic drop in occupied Residential units and a corresponding jump in "homeless".

Perhaps this is the new "adult cims wait for housing and a nest-egg" before moving system at work. The issue is simulation speed in my case, it just feels like it takes ages for a cim to move in (6 months?) where before it would be 60 seconds or maybe 6 game-minutes.
I'm seeing the same thing, and this is the part I'm still trying to wrap my head around. I also think this is why this may still be relevant to the Bye Bye Homeless mod.

It makes sense now that the initial "drop" in households is the monthly death-wave. But then, both the population and number of households slowly recover alongside the climb in the number of stuck citizens showing up as "homeless" - and I can verify the monthly recovery in households both at the city-level and at the neighborhood level.

But what doesn't quite make sense to me still is - if the households are recovering at the neighborhood scale, and I can actually find the citizens who have taken the new units and watch them move in, where are all of these "stuck" cims, and why do they get removed along with the monthly senior die-off? Or does the death wave actually precede the dump of stuck cims in some way? Also - why is Infoloom identifying them as "homeless" even though the simulation's main programming doesn't identify them as homeless (and thus doesn't allow their removal through RemoveAllHomelesshousehold)?

This probably is about how the programming identifies "homeless" that is way over my head as a player of the game. But perhaps a developer or modder would understand.
 
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The issue is simulation speed in my case, it just feels like it takes ages for a cim to move in (6 months?) where before it would be 60 seconds or maybe 6 game-minutes.
No idea what your system specs are, but I totally empathize. I have what I think is a pretty decent system, and it sometimes feels like it is chugging away at 190K.
 
Perhaps there are also some clues in this screenshot about if the gap is with low, medium, or high residential properties. This screenshot shows -9176 low residential properties, with positive numbers for medium and high. How is it possible to have more occupied low density residential properties than total properties? Wouldn't this also mean there should be demand in this sector but not the others?
View attachment 1272091
I've been wondering if this is some kind of calculational weirdness ... household A is being evicted because they can't pay rent, or someone has passed away but the record still shows them as a resident... meanwhile household B is incoming and the record shows them as the resident, but they haven't yet arrived.

The problem I have always had, and the reason my low-education tax level is so high (compared to the others) is that companies level up so quickly that high-education jobs have outpaced the education rates in my city. I have used various strategies to try to get citizens to attend school, including incentivizing higher education with tax rates, and the current state of the city also reflects all of the updates made to the game over the past year or so. I used to need a LOT more elementary schools for example (especially because my companies were creating so many high-education jobs). I don't want to delete them all though, because the recent "dumps" have created a drop in the percentage of children, which will presumably recover once the population stabilizes a bit and I will need the school capacity again.
This is one aspect of the game that feels like a very realistic problem in many cities. I live in Denver and it has become so urban, highly technical/professional, and desirable to live in that people working in service jobs can't really afford to live here anymore.

I remember this was a real problem to solve in SimCity. The game was designed to penalize the player if you couldn't maintain enough lower educated/income-level workers. You might see an entire school shut down if it was unable to hire a custodian. In CS1 I played with the "Employ Overeducated Workers" mod--and I'm not sure if it's really a problem one should be preoccupied with in CS2, but I'm a perfectionist and detail-oriented, so there you go!

What I do with schools to compensate for an over-educated populace is place them for complete coverage as needed/indicated in the Education info panel -- but then I set the Services Education toggle at 80%-90% for most of my builds. That way the neighborhoods have educational coverage, but by lowering the efficiency of the system I have greater certainty that there will be cims that may not achieve higher levels of education. I've never attempted a build where I set education at 100% so I have no benchmark for discerning if it's an effective strategy.

Thank you for sharing your city and best of luck!
 
I've been wondering if this is some kind of calculational weirdness ... household A is being evicted because they can't pay rent, or someone has passed away but the record still shows them as a resident... meanwhile household B is incoming and the record shows them as the resident, but they haven't yet arrived.
Actually, I think I figured this out, and it is much simpler. If you use the UK Terraced housing, the "total" buildings counts as only 1, but each one contains 3 households. I use a lot of these in my city, so this is why the number of low density households quickly outpaces the number of properties.

I tested this by adding a new UK terraced home and watched as the count of "total" low density properties only increased by 1.
 
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Actually, I think I figured this out, and it is much simpler. If you use the UK Terraced housing, the "total" buildings counts as only 1, but each one contains 3 households. I use a lot of these in my city, so this is why the number of low density households quickly outpaces the number of properties.

I tested this by adding a new UK terraced home and watched as the count of "total" low density properties only increased by 1.
That makes complete sense -- but I wonder if it happens with other assets as well (row housing perhaps?). At best, I have maybe one block of UK terraced housing at present.
 
Hang onto your coding keyboard. They have other #@$% to fix now ... too many unemployed with too many commuters. Grrrr...

Basically, cims with jobs but no homes will live off-map and commute -- while cims without jobs (and with homes?) remain on the map forever unemployed.


I wonder if you can maintain the Thanos Snap at least.

Huge props for this mod no matter what!
Unfortunately those remove-homeless buttons cause CTD in the latest game version. So no easy way to keep them.
 
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Unfortunately those remove-homeless buttons cause CTD in the latest game version. So no easy way to keep them.
No worries! I was being partly satirical ... no way to show that in a forum post.

Keeping this mod going as long as you did was a remarkable service to the community.

I'm guessing I could explore developer mode if I really wanted a nuclear option.

I have a test city running launched in January 2024 that has navigated all the major patches successfully, and the simulation eventually sorts itself out and reaches equilibrium. Unhoused cims in double digits, with about 20% of the population commuting.

Can't wait to see what you create next!
 
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