can you make it where if the Byzantines doesnt exist but the Greeks do that the Greeks can still form the Byzantine Empire least as Ioannis Metaxas wish?
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The mod will work, however it is not designed to work, so all of the end dates are still set to 1948, I am currently working on updating the game to work properly with doomsday
I finished with the db config and most event files, i still have to update the ai files and the scenario files as well as add spy data.
keep up the good work. Ive enjoyed the mod me just enjoying what would happen if the Byzantines did survive 
can i ask something kinda related to it why is it in the Vanilla version of EUII the Byzantines have cores all the way up to Hungary but in mods like yours its in mid Yugoslavia? is it just a guess on how far they would go back?
can i ask something kinda related to it why is it in the Vanilla version of EUII the Byzantines have cores all the way up to Hungary but in mods like yours its in mid Yugoslavia? is it just a guess on how far they would go back?
So, small change plans, Paradox in its infinate wisom has changed the format of the scenario files between the original and doomsday, so I really dont want to go over the changed files, so unless anyone knows of a change in the scenario files I am simply going to leave in the old ones.
Also, turns out funny story I have been rewriting my original byzantine mod and not the one for doomsday. So I am wondering if anyone is still only using the original, because of no one is then I can just keep working on the doomsday version. It is going to be much easier to maintain only two versions of my mod than four but if anyone is then I feel I should.
In this case the Byzantines have only managed to grow that large since their ancient empire. So their claims have been forgotten about. Perhaps in my Allied Byzantine (working title, still thinking of a permanent one) they will grow larger.
Also, turns out funny story I have been rewriting my original byzantine mod and not the one for doomsday. So I am wondering if anyone is still only using the original, because of no one is then I can just keep working on the doomsday version. It is going to be much easier to maintain only two versions of my mod than four but if anyone is then I feel I should.
GermanWehrmacht said:keep up the good work. Ive enjoyed the mod me just enjoying what would happen if the Byzantines did survive
In this case the Byzantines have only managed to grow that large since their ancient empire. So their claims have been forgotten about. Perhaps in my Allied Byzantine (working title, still thinking of a permanent one) they will grow larger.
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I only use doomsday, but I will probably switch to armageddon once it is playable.hammerfalls said:
you can call it The Republic of the Byzantines
or the Byzantine Republic i dont think the Romans would mind if you took it oh wait The romans still exist they just moved Eastwards lol.
Republic of the Byzantines? Aww... that'd spoil the theocratic, mad despotic emperor mania that is/was the Byzantine empire!
Anyway- play my new mod when it's released! Plenty of Pan-Hellenism there in the form of Pontus, Greater Greece, and Cappadocia!
Anyway- play my new mod when it's released! Plenty of Pan-Hellenism there in the form of Pontus, Greater Greece, and Cappadocia!
Byzantines need to change in order to survive so it would make some since if they changed there system overtime to a democratic system and have a president instead of Emperor.
Yeah... but a democratic nation which can't declare war on whoever it wants, when it needs to wouldn't last long in South Eastern Europe in the 1936 campaign.
Just started the scenario, and had a couple thoughts on the initial setup if you were still considering improvement.
First off, it's nothing major but I think you could improve the infrastructure levels a bit. Honestly, I would probably raise them at least 20% throughout Anatolia and make a string of 100% provinces from Athens to Ankara, and possibly around the entire Aegean seaboard. This is supposedly the major industrial area of the nation, the empire has focused on internal development for the past 100 years, but the urban capital province is at 60% infrastructure?
I think the IC levels are a little low, mainly in the East. Again, if we're basing this on alternative history, much of eastern Anatolia, the Levant, and to a lesser degree Egypt would have had markedly different development than how it had been in actuallity.
Assuming at least a couple to several hundred years of Byzantine rule, it is very likely the cultures and religions in the areas would have conformed much more to Byzantine cultures instead of Arabic or Turkish, especially in the Levant and Syria as I'm assuming these would have been lost last. Thus during the crucial industrialization of the 17 and 1800's far more development would have taken place in these areas due to the greater stability if nothing else. Ottoman stagnation wouldn't equal Byzantine stagnation, especially if these areas were lost to other European powers; France and UK hold them at start.
Lebannon, Syria, Jordon, Isreal, and Egypt all get offmap IC and resources when released, I think you could legitimately place some or all of those additional assets on the map and again slightly higher infrastructure levels. Since the UK and France do not have cores in the areas they will recieve very little benefit from any improvement; so you don't have to worry about imbalancing them while actually providing real incentive and fun for expansion there.
Additional development in Eastern Anatolia would be realistic too. Armenia has 15 IC in two provinces; if you include Ankara you have 9 IC in the 14 provinces in your east, 3 if you don't. Trebizond especially should have more development. As it is, the Turkish revolter gets 1 IC total. What's the point of even trying to hold on to the land, there isn't anything there. Plus, not much any country can do with 1 IC; if the Soviets don't support them they won't even be able to build supplies for their army.
Given the Empire's size and population in this alternate history, it really should be at least on par with Japan if not France; another 10 or more IC distributed there and the fifth tech team would help.
Tech teams are pretty well balanced, but there are a couple I would either change or just get rid of, namely GNAF, the Smyrna shipyards, and the infantry application school. I could not find a single tech they would be 'better' at reseaching than one or more other teams. Granted, they would allow you to research more of the same type of tech concurrently, but in most cases there are already two other teams that would do a better job, and a human player would optimize their research to never use them. So to me these are just clutter.
Some other's I would probably never use as well as their possible one additional match isn't worth the three or more decreased skill levels; for instance, Tsolakoglou, Yamut, or the Tirana Ind. Com. Even an additional single, high-difficulty match isn't worth the decreased skill levels research-timewise. SPAP also offers nothing that OASA doesn't give at one skill point less, but I can see the possible uses of these four. And I'm assuming that Constantinople U. was specifically given Nuclear Physics but not Nuclear Engineering for balance reasons?
I noticed Bulgaria doesn't have a single airbase, was that intentional?
Also, I don't know when in your timeline the Black Sea coast was lost, but Byzantium probably deserves cores at some point on the Crimean penisula and maybe Novorossisk or Krasnodar, especially if they fight the Russians with the Axis.
Edit:
Oh yeah, some starting (small) supply stockpiles on the islands would be nice, so the divisions on Crete don't take Str damage for the first 3 game days. A single level 1 HQ would probably be appropriate, and maybe a slightly large airforce and navy. Romania's airforce is more power than Byz's in the scenario and Spain the stronger navy.
I'm thinking around 2 Int, 2 Tacs, and one Nav. Then maybe a navy somewhere between France's and Spain's.
First off, it's nothing major but I think you could improve the infrastructure levels a bit. Honestly, I would probably raise them at least 20% throughout Anatolia and make a string of 100% provinces from Athens to Ankara, and possibly around the entire Aegean seaboard. This is supposedly the major industrial area of the nation, the empire has focused on internal development for the past 100 years, but the urban capital province is at 60% infrastructure?
I think the IC levels are a little low, mainly in the East. Again, if we're basing this on alternative history, much of eastern Anatolia, the Levant, and to a lesser degree Egypt would have had markedly different development than how it had been in actuallity.
Assuming at least a couple to several hundred years of Byzantine rule, it is very likely the cultures and religions in the areas would have conformed much more to Byzantine cultures instead of Arabic or Turkish, especially in the Levant and Syria as I'm assuming these would have been lost last. Thus during the crucial industrialization of the 17 and 1800's far more development would have taken place in these areas due to the greater stability if nothing else. Ottoman stagnation wouldn't equal Byzantine stagnation, especially if these areas were lost to other European powers; France and UK hold them at start.
Lebannon, Syria, Jordon, Isreal, and Egypt all get offmap IC and resources when released, I think you could legitimately place some or all of those additional assets on the map and again slightly higher infrastructure levels. Since the UK and France do not have cores in the areas they will recieve very little benefit from any improvement; so you don't have to worry about imbalancing them while actually providing real incentive and fun for expansion there.
Additional development in Eastern Anatolia would be realistic too. Armenia has 15 IC in two provinces; if you include Ankara you have 9 IC in the 14 provinces in your east, 3 if you don't. Trebizond especially should have more development. As it is, the Turkish revolter gets 1 IC total. What's the point of even trying to hold on to the land, there isn't anything there. Plus, not much any country can do with 1 IC; if the Soviets don't support them they won't even be able to build supplies for their army.
Given the Empire's size and population in this alternate history, it really should be at least on par with Japan if not France; another 10 or more IC distributed there and the fifth tech team would help.
Tech teams are pretty well balanced, but there are a couple I would either change or just get rid of, namely GNAF, the Smyrna shipyards, and the infantry application school. I could not find a single tech they would be 'better' at reseaching than one or more other teams. Granted, they would allow you to research more of the same type of tech concurrently, but in most cases there are already two other teams that would do a better job, and a human player would optimize their research to never use them. So to me these are just clutter.
Some other's I would probably never use as well as their possible one additional match isn't worth the three or more decreased skill levels; for instance, Tsolakoglou, Yamut, or the Tirana Ind. Com. Even an additional single, high-difficulty match isn't worth the decreased skill levels research-timewise. SPAP also offers nothing that OASA doesn't give at one skill point less, but I can see the possible uses of these four. And I'm assuming that Constantinople U. was specifically given Nuclear Physics but not Nuclear Engineering for balance reasons?
I noticed Bulgaria doesn't have a single airbase, was that intentional?
Also, I don't know when in your timeline the Black Sea coast was lost, but Byzantium probably deserves cores at some point on the Crimean penisula and maybe Novorossisk or Krasnodar, especially if they fight the Russians with the Axis.
Edit:
Oh yeah, some starting (small) supply stockpiles on the islands would be nice, so the divisions on Crete don't take Str damage for the first 3 game days. A single level 1 HQ would probably be appropriate, and maybe a slightly large airforce and navy. Romania's airforce is more power than Byz's in the scenario and Spain the stronger navy.
I'm thinking around 2 Int, 2 Tacs, and one Nav. Then maybe a navy somewhere between France's and Spain's.
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^^^ Lots of good points and thoughts . Some comments:
Offmap resources for Lebannon etc? I did not realize that! <does some research> it's in db\events\ai_revolters.txt, for people who are curious. (I've altered my copy of this mod to include an Arab Caliphate, and I was wondering why Damascus and Beirut had no economy, so this is quite interesting.)
You make an excellent case that industrial values in the east should be higher, but on the other hand it's arguable that industrial values in the west (Athens, Thessaloniki, Tirana) "should" be lower. Athens was as big as it was because of, for example, the refugees from Smyrna etc. in the 20's: it probably wouldn't have been as big in this timeline, much less bigger. On the other hand, it might have had a bigger economy...
At the end of the day, how big the Empire's economy should be depends on gameplay, since this is a really, really hypothetical scenario. I've experimented with playing the mod with lower levels of IC, and it's much less fun. I did find that including Bulgaria in the Empire from the beginning of the scenario, and adding Bulgaria's leader list to the existing one (so that it became, in effect, the Graeco-Bulgarian Empire ), worked out very well.
Rome and Athens are only 80% infrastructure in the historical scenarios, so it's not unreasonable if Constantinople is only 80% too. Or, like Venice and Milan, it could be 100%. It should definitely be better than 60%, though. I've found the easiest way to mod infrastructure is in the country.inc files:
# increase Constantinople's infrastructure by 20%
province = { id = 409 infra = 0.20 }
Historically, the Arabs conquered right up to roughly the modern Syrian/Turkish border within a century or less of their expansion out of their peninsula, and then that border stayed stable for several centuries, until the Turks came onto the scene.
I'd like to keep all the existing tech teams, partly because sometimes I need two similar ones at once (especially OASU/SPAP) and partly because redundancies make the mod easier to, well, mod. For example, I play without the Spartan Officers' College, which wouldn't be as easy if the various weaker researchers didn't exist. On the other hand, some of the weaker ones could certainly be tweaked. Ideas?
For my own play, I've changed certain events to give the Empire lots of cores in Crimea, the Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, and Russia rather than in the Middle East. Given, among other things, Stalin's repression of the Russian Orthodox Church, an Orthodox, Greek-speaking army would I think have been perceived as liberators by many in the Ukraine. In contrast, Arab muslims wouldn't have been particularly impressed by Byzantine claims of right to rule Arab-inhabited territories. The only place southeast of the RL Turkish border that I give the Empire cores is Lebannon.
Of course, while I find this "realistic", it's rather useless unless you invade the Soviet Union, which limits your gameplay options a lot, to say the least. I've compensated by giving the Empire lend-lease events if it joins the Allies, so your country grows economically either way.
The navy should be larger, but perhaps not much larger, since in this timeline the Empire was defeated by the Anglo-French Entente in the Great War, and the British had a habit of severely restricting the navies of countries they defeated in their peace treaties. I tend to toss in an old battlecruiser (the Goeben under another name), upgrade the Averof to an armoured cruiser (CA-0) (since that's what she is), and add a newer light cruiser and a few flotillas of slightly newer destroyers and subs. On the other hand, for variants in which the Empire is supposed to have been on the winning side in WWI, it should have a navy of similar size (4-5 BB-0, 7 CA-2) to those of Italy and France, as it has an economy of similar size to theirs and would presumably have signed the Washington Naval Treaty and been given parity with them.
Here's some other threads that people interested in this mod may find interesting:
A discussion of names of army units in Greek:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=300971
Some Greeks discussing ways to improve the representation of Greece in this game:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279897
A very nicely written AAR using this mod:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281647
. Some comments:Offmap resources for Lebannon etc? I did not realize that! <does some research> it's in db\events\ai_revolters.txt, for people who are curious. (I've altered my copy of this mod to include an Arab Caliphate, and I was wondering why Damascus and Beirut had no economy, so this is quite interesting.)
You make an excellent case that industrial values in the east should be higher, but on the other hand it's arguable that industrial values in the west (Athens, Thessaloniki, Tirana) "should" be lower. Athens was as big as it was because of, for example, the refugees from Smyrna etc. in the 20's: it probably wouldn't have been as big in this timeline, much less bigger. On the other hand, it might have had a bigger economy...
At the end of the day, how big the Empire's economy should be depends on gameplay, since this is a really, really hypothetical scenario. I've experimented with playing the mod with lower levels of IC, and it's much less fun. I did find that including Bulgaria in the Empire from the beginning of the scenario, and adding Bulgaria's leader list to the existing one (so that it became, in effect, the Graeco-Bulgarian Empire
), worked out very well.Rome and Athens are only 80% infrastructure in the historical scenarios, so it's not unreasonable if Constantinople is only 80% too. Or, like Venice and Milan, it could be 100%
. It should definitely be better than 60%, though. I've found the easiest way to mod infrastructure is in the country.inc files:# increase Constantinople's infrastructure by 20%
province = { id = 409 infra = 0.20 }
Historically, the Arabs conquered right up to roughly the modern Syrian/Turkish border within a century or less of their expansion out of their peninsula, and then that border stayed stable for several centuries, until the Turks came onto the scene.
I'd like to keep all the existing tech teams, partly because sometimes I need two similar ones at once (especially OASU/SPAP) and partly because redundancies make the mod easier to, well, mod. For example, I play without the Spartan Officers' College, which wouldn't be as easy if the various weaker researchers didn't exist. On the other hand, some of the weaker ones could certainly be tweaked. Ideas?
For my own play, I've changed certain events to give the Empire lots of cores in Crimea, the Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, and Russia rather than in the Middle East. Given, among other things, Stalin's repression of the Russian Orthodox Church, an Orthodox, Greek-speaking army would I think have been perceived as liberators by many in the Ukraine. In contrast, Arab muslims wouldn't have been particularly impressed by Byzantine claims of right to rule Arab-inhabited territories. The only place southeast of the RL Turkish border that I give the Empire cores is Lebannon.
Of course, while I find this "realistic", it's rather useless unless you invade the Soviet Union, which limits your gameplay options a lot, to say the least. I've compensated by giving the Empire lend-lease events if it joins the Allies, so your country grows economically either way.
The navy should be larger, but perhaps not much larger, since in this timeline the Empire was defeated by the Anglo-French Entente in the Great War, and the British had a habit of severely restricting the navies of countries they defeated in their peace treaties. I tend to toss in an old battlecruiser (the Goeben under another name), upgrade the Averof to an armoured cruiser (CA-0) (since that's what she is), and add a newer light cruiser and a few flotillas of slightly newer destroyers and subs. On the other hand, for variants in which the Empire is supposed to have been on the winning side in WWI, it should have a navy of similar size (4-5 BB-0, 7 CA-2) to those of Italy and France, as it has an economy of similar size to theirs and would presumably have signed the Washington Naval Treaty and been given parity with them.
Here's some other threads that people interested in this mod may find interesting:
A discussion of names of army units in Greek:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=300971
Some Greeks discussing ways to improve the representation of Greece in this game:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279897
A very nicely written AAR using this mod:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281647
Oh, I noticed that the mod is still using the old country files from HoI2. That means that any of the changes made for Doomsday are not being loaded, the most important of which is the starting spies. Should be realitively easy to correct.
Ericus1 said:
Aside from spies, which I just finished adding, do you know of any other changes?
hammerfalls said:
Escort carriers, latest DD patch added new levels of engineer and arm car too. Other techs such as advanced blitz (errghh) and guerilla war etc etc
Well heres an update:
after working on the mods for 6 hours this morning (I love Saturdays) I can safely say I am nearly done. All thats left in the AI files, adding the Italian-Byzantine war events,maybe a more careful read through of the country files, and some other random event files.
I will not be including many new events in the first release of my Allied Byzantine mod (BTW Allied Byzantine is a working title) and I am still considering turning the Byzantines into a democracy and calling them the Byzantine Republic (or maybe even Roman) but if I dont then I would appreciate suggestions of what to call it.
Finally, I have decided to simply combine the two mods into one Byzantine mod that has both scenarios.
edit:
oh yea and the changes discussed above have been implimented with modifications and comperises. Essentially, I upped the infrastructure but also extended the rails a ways to Alexandria, Baghdad, and Basrah. The Central Byzantine scenario has 5 battleships, 1 heavy cruiser, and assorted small ships. The Allied Byzantine scenario has 5 battleships, 8 heavy cruisers, and assorted smaller ships. I also increased industrial production by 12 in eastern Turkey for both scenarios and an additional 16 beyond the 12 in the Allied Byzantine scenario. I also decided to keep all of the tech teams, mostly because I created most of them and each one is special and all of them are my favorite. I also added a supply pool to Crete.
after working on the mods for 6 hours this morning (I love Saturdays) I can safely say I am nearly done. All thats left in the AI files, adding the Italian-Byzantine war events,maybe a more careful read through of the country files, and some other random event files.
I will not be including many new events in the first release of my Allied Byzantine mod (BTW Allied Byzantine is a working title) and I am still considering turning the Byzantines into a democracy and calling them the Byzantine Republic (or maybe even Roman) but if I dont then I would appreciate suggestions of what to call it.
Finally, I have decided to simply combine the two mods into one Byzantine mod that has both scenarios.
edit:
oh yea and the changes discussed above have been implimented with modifications and comperises. Essentially, I upped the infrastructure but also extended the rails a ways to Alexandria, Baghdad, and Basrah. The Central Byzantine scenario has 5 battleships, 1 heavy cruiser, and assorted small ships. The Allied Byzantine scenario has 5 battleships, 8 heavy cruisers, and assorted smaller ships. I also increased industrial production by 12 in eastern Turkey for both scenarios and an additional 16 beyond the 12 in the Allied Byzantine scenario. I also decided to keep all of the tech teams, mostly because I created most of them and each one is special and all of them are my favorite. I also added a supply pool to Crete.
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