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C&C3: Summer of Discontent

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Antipope
Dec 11, 2004
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Using WATK3.1 with fix and FAL's lovely 1492 scenario WATK3.1
Stats
AAR Thread
Mondays 17:00 GMT (Provisionally) till 21:00 GMT

GM's: Van Engel and Dr Bob
Hosts:FAL
Editor:
Players:
France-Cheech-147-106-898
England-Engel- 236-188-964
Spain-FAL-202-402-373
Portugal-Tonio-2-725-707
Austria-Ear-82-941-754
Holland-Absolut-206-522-909
Denmark-Lyko-55-323-830
Sweden-Ego-243-868-753
Venice-labby-190-282-991
Ottoman Empire-Dr Bob-278-543-055
Poland-Mulli-119-912-415
Russia-Herzog-53-084-170


Rules
#1: Obey the GMs, they reserve the right to overrule any rule or create a new one should the situation require it
#2: No quitters here please, Daniel has a black book on you...wait...didn't Daniel quit a game?
#3:Force peace rule:

When you have reached +99 WS against your opponent in a war, you can announce you go for the forced peace. Pause the game so your opponent can confirm the WS.
After three years of wartime have passed, you can then force your opponent to peace if he is at -3 stab and you have +99 WS.
The next stabhitting peace offer must then be accepted. Pause the game so your opponent can confirm the WS.

#4: Nations with naval slider more than 5 are not allowed to sign TA's with each other. No pansy "don't break my mono's" here, break them and suffer the consquences
#5: Being on time gets a -1% inflation reward or -2 BB
#6: If you get vassalised you must stay that way for 20 years unless the overlord chooses to break it. After 20 years the vassal can break vassalage, the overlord can then choose to attack them for it again or let them go.
As a vassal :
- you cannot enter any other alliance than that of your overlord
- you must accept a proposal of TA/MA from your overlord
- you are not allowed to start any wars without permission of your overlord
7#: Writing a decent length AAR (over 250 words) gains a reward either:
  • -1% inflation
  • 400 Ducats (before 1650)
  • 800 ducats (Between 1650-1750)
  • 1500 ducats (After 1750)
  • -3BB
  • 1 DP slider movement
#8 If MA was received as result of peace treaty, it can`t be revoked next 20 years
#9 If the religion was forced changed as result of peace treaty, it can`t be changed by this country or by another peace treaty next 20 years
#10 If you have an AI vassal for more than 10 years at centralisation lower than 7 then the vassalage will be editted out to avoid MP exploits (BB and Austria excepted for the first 50 years)
#11 Every country will get +2 inflation for each three gold mines it owns in game after a session ending near 1550. Again in 1600. After that not anymore. So, basically you get 2 checks for gold inflation in the campaign, the more mines you have with a country, the more inflation you get. (The regular bankruptcy events are slept). Trade posts and colonies count as a regular province for this measure.
So if Spain is greedy and takes all mines, it gets a lot of inflation. Same with other countries taking gold there. Same with countries taking gold in Africa, or Asia.

#12- If you wish to fight the AI vassal of a Human overlord, you must either have permission or you must DoW the overlord first.


The following is forbidden
  • Attacking an enemy fleet with pirates, as well as comparatively very small fleets, only made to inhibit loading/landing.
  • Releasing one or more vassals during wartime, to hinder an enemy.
  • Force-burning of manufactories, i.e. repeated move and halt orders to an army in a province with a manufactory.
  • Using lag to your advantage. This includes (but is not limited to): Sending lag colonists, building lag fortresses, sending lag missionaries, using lag diplomats. (The exception is using lag diplomats to send cash).
  • Declaring a 'fake' war on a country, with the aim to:
    • Increase the stability of the nation you declare war on.
    • Change the religion of a protestant or Counter-Reformed-Catholic nation back to Catholicism before the Edict of Tolerance.
  • Exploiting Simultanity: Using the game engine to break a deal, that would occur simultaneously in the real word. This includes (but is not limited to) the 'sale' of something in game.
  • Converting from Catholiscism to either Counter-reformed-Catholicism or Protestantism and then switching back to Catholiscism before the Edict of Tolerance.
  • Cancelling being the vassal of another player within 20 years, except when an event allows you to do so.
  • Trading maps with the AI.
  • Signing a peace deal with the AI, that bankrupts it in the same day.
  • Reading the hitory log of the host save

The following is allowed:

  • Breaking a truce, even when at negative stab.
  • Not leaving a human alliance, despite the alliance leader asking you to do so.
  • Sending loans to the AI.
  • Landing armies in the port of a country you are in war with, because you still have Military Access.
  • Sacking capitals for maps
  • Stealing sieges
 
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Reserved
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Provisional Randoms (Courtesy of Tonio):

Before 1685 stats:
Movement: 2-6, average 3.3 (it is not influenced by sliders)
Fire: 2-5, average 3.0
Shock: 2-5, average 3.0
Siege: 1-3, average 1.0

After 1685 stats:
Movement: 2-6, average 4.0
Fire: 2-5, average 3.5
Shock: 2-5, average 3.5
Siege: 1-3, average 1.0

Nappy stats:
Movement: 2-6, average 5.0
Fire: 2-5, average 4.0
Shock: 2-5, average 4.0
Siege: 1-3, average 1.3


Number of leaders:
Generals/admirals: 1-3, average 2
Life span: 10-50, average 20
Influence on number of generals/admirals per DP click: 10%
Before 1550:
Explorers/conqs: 0-0, average 0.0
After 1550:
Explorers/conqs: 0-1, average 0.5
Life span: 5-11, average 8
 
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History of the World

1492-1513:
Expansion by the major powers was almost universal, but Brandenburg was beaten and annexed by Poland giving Poland access to Germany's riches. Denmark also exploited Brandenburg's demise. Russia went east but was repulsed from Astrakhan by the Turk who now has interests in Siberia, the ottomans also isolated Hungary from Austria and annexed egypt. Venice expanded in Italy under the Spanish protection, Spain took Genoa and some more Italian minors and France took Milan, but France have been marginalised in Italy by losing to Spain and Venice. Aztecs were annexed and Portugal has got to India, England has found New York and Denmark colonises Canada. Sweden slumbered but did peacefully break the UoK. Austria lost a war to France and lost much of their inheritance of Hungary and the HRE's intergrity is shattered in the north.

1513-1532:
War between majors was common here, Muscovy lost a war against Poland and Lithunia and decided to join forces to attack Sweden. Surprisingly Sweden put up a valiant fight, and beat them, taking Danzig from Poland. Later on Russia lost Ingria and Kexholm to Sweden as well. The ottomans continued to expand, annexing Hungary, before beating Austria, taking the Stiermark gold and another province. But elsewhere Austria did well expanding greatly in Germany. France was peaceful up to end when they attack Venice to try to force open Italy. Spain could not interfere as there CRT and Cortez aided attack on the Ottoman Empire had been repulsed, nearly killing Cortez and fighting had spread to Naples, with the ottomans holding naval supremacy. A pseudo-fight had also occured between England and Spain, England losing Calais. Religionwise, Spain, Portugal, Austria, France, Venice and surprisingly England hold to catholocism and Sweden, Denmark and Poland have joined Luther's followers. Portugal also did well in India although North America remains a mystery of the Sultan's clerks.

1533-1554
Turmoil erupted in Western Europe, as France lost a war to the revitalised Venice and Iberians, revenge for the loss of Northern Italy to France that Venice suffered early on in the session. France was cut off from the med and the mediterrean is now only contested by the Iberian-Venetian-Anglo alliance and the Ottoman Sultanate. The Ottomans had another few years of success as they beat back teh Christian Austrians once and are in the process of doing so again when the Austrian's lauched a counterattack. Expansion in Asia was accomplished by the Sultan and by the King of Portugal with China's trade centres being taken, along with portugal adopting the reformed faith this can only bode well for them. Polish attempts to convert their populace were the only conflict in the rest of Europe as Russia was dormant and Sweden backed down from following through on their threat.


1586-1604
The Ottoman advance was finally hurled back, the Austrian ArchDuke pounced on Ottoman weariness to take back 3 German provinces, however even the crippled Islamic state managed to inflict a defeat on Russia, taking Bogutar and once more securing Siberia. France was beaten back by Iberia and Venice, with Venice taking back north Italy, helped by the selling of the Ottoman possessions as well. Holland made great strides, becoming the 4 richest in the world in a few years, 3rd if inflation is accounted. Denmark and Sweden and Poland made economic developments due to Polish lethargy in foreign affairs and England were similiar in outlook with North America coming further under their control, although they have been outmatched by Holland and quite possibly Scandanvia. Portugal continues to get rich and is even improving its manpower and situation in Europe.

1605-1620
Russia were taken advantage of in their Time of Trouble by the turk, who took a CoT and got a nap to keep him safe during the Bey's event. Sweden took the entire Baltic coast by negotiation and Austria took 2 provinces from the ailing Ottomans. Then Holland and England fought Denmark and Sweden, whilst Poland fought just Denmark. Eventual victory was gained by the Poles, despite Russian intervention. Meanwhile the Sultan built a fleet and sailed to Holland's aid, throwing Gustav II Adolphus back to Holstein. Unfortunately the death of Gustav was stopped by another Austrian declaration of war, however this time the superior leaders of the Austrians was not enough to overcome the Bey revolted OE and a stalemate of sorts has evolved. Denmark also were forced out of the Anglo-Dutch war and Sweden holds the line alone. France also attempted its perenial attack on Spain, and seems to be losing again.
 
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Dr Bob said:
Following another of FAL's good ideas, please post 3 countries you would not ever like to play, that way Engel and I can try to balance the game as much as possible.
Click to expand...

Denmark
Poland
OE

And I blame Bob because I had to waste slots on Denmark and Poland :mad:
 
Don't want to play:

Denmark
Poland
Venice

If those countries aren't up for picks anyway, I want to say 'no' to other countries as well :p

-------------

I like to start at 18:30 CET instead of 18:00 CET, because otherwise I will be often slightly late due to me rushing home from work ;)
 
Interested, but I do not think I can play that many mondays. :(

But I can most probably sub every now and then :)
 
Dr Bob said:
#6: If you get vassalised you must stay that way for 20 years unless the overlord chooses to break it. After 20 years the vassal can break vassalage, the overlord can then choose to attack them for it again or let them go.
A vassal must obey his overlord for anything that is not self destructive, if in doubt whether you must do something ask me or Engel
The overlord should protect his vassal, if a diplomatic vassalage (or by event) he must protect his vassal.
Click to expand...

I like more version which i offered for Test of Monitor:

If you are vassalised by another human
- you must stay as a vassal at least 20 years (the vassaliser may cancel the vassalship any time he wants)
- you cannot enter any other alliance than that of your overlord
- you must accept a proposal of TA/MA from your overlord
- you are not allowed to start any wars without permission of your overlord

After 20 years vassal is allowed to dow overlord to break vassalage.
 
I want to play 2 days a week. I have vacation the 3 out of 4 weeks in July, 3 out of 4 in August and half of June so I can play a lot ;)

----------------------

SPA (as you have inserted FALs stinking bankruptcy rule :rolleyes: )
POL (as they are a loser nation :( )
AUS (as they are locked up :mad: )

Please put me close to China :rolleyes:

-------

And please remove all historical leaders. I am nowadays completly against them. Just look at the DbD game where ENG could do what they wanted with e.g. Venice in the last session. This makes it less fun to play Venice and as you could see that was one of the nations FAL chose not to play. The existence of these leaders ruins the fun of playing many nations and makes the game even more unfair as to the difference between nations.

A removal of them also opens up the colonisation race. It is not at all sure that SPA takes out the Incas etc. It becomes a much more exciting game open for anyone. Portugal does not need to be played at all in this kind of setup. Without their leaders they are just a random minor.

And yes, I do not envisage much support for this suggestion. Most people are conservative. They see the positive sides of what they have and are cerebrally unable to imagine the pros and cons a change results in. Yes that construction was an euphemism. :rolleyes:

-----------

Try to make the starting nations at least somewhat equal in size. Then potential growth area still remains as something that distinguishes nations but that is another question and apparently not one that will be solved in this campaign.

Instead only use random leaders.
 
i might be intrested in venice or denmark if you remove all historicle leaders like daniel asked (and use randoms)
 
Dr Bob said:
#5: Being on time gets a -1% inflation reward or -2 BB
Click to expand...

I offer following:
Players who will be at XX:XX GMT will get cookie:
-0,5% inflation or -2BB
Players who will not be during 10 minutes after XX:XX GMT will get penalty:
0,5% inflation.
In 15 minutes after XX:XX GMT the session is started. Missed countries are AIed or ghosted.
 
I'm in :D

Don't want to play
poland (ppl always gang this nation :mad: )
venice ( OE's Province shop )
Denmark ( I can never play a country that have to annex sweden to be big, a matter of principals :) )
 
GMs, clarify please
- will it be historical leaders ?
- will spanish bankrupcy be forced not to avoid ?
- will it be forbidden to have land connection to China ?
 
Tonioz said:
GMs, clarify please
- will it be historical leaders ?
- will spanish bankrupcy be forced not to avoid ?
- will it be forbidden to have land connection to China ?
Click to expand...

-I intend to use Historical leaders with quite high stats random leaders + a 6-6-6 leader during the nappy period for those without uber leaders.

-If Spain takes a majority of the gold they will have to face the bankruptcy event

-No, but as Daniel isn't playing I don't see this as an issue ;)
 
Dr Bob said:
-I intend to use Historical leaders with quite high stats random leaders + a 6-6-6 leader during the nappy period for those without uber leaders.

-If Spain takes a majority of the gold they will have to face the bankruptcy event

-No, but as Daniel isn't playing I don't see this as an issue ;)
Click to expand...
Agreed, agreed and agreed. :)
 
Offering Random Leaders:

Before 1685 stats:
Movement: 2-6, average 3.3 (it is not influenced by sliders)
Fire: 2-5, average 3.0
Shock: 2-5, average 3.0
Siege: 1-3, average 1.0

After 1685 stats:
Movement: 2-6, average 3.5
Fire: 2-5, average 3.3
Shock: 2-5, average 3.3
Siege: 1-3, average 1.0

Nappy stats:
Movement: 2-6, average 4.0
Fire: 2-5, average 3.6
Shock: 2-5, average 3.6
Siege: 1-3, average 1.3


Number of leaders:
Generals/admirals: 1-3, average 2
Life span: 10-50, average 20
Influence on number of generals/admirals per DP click: 10%
Before 1550:
Explorers/conqs: 0-0, average 0.0
After 1550:
Explorers/conqs: 0-1, average 0.5
Life span: 5-11, average 8

As well, as option they can be bought instead for like 1000 ducats after 1550.
 
Ah, an intelligent man! My heart gladdens!
Click to expand...

Of course he is because he agrees with you eh daniel.

As daniel A isnt playing i would like to join. Mondays are great for me.

please not

england
portugal
spain

i would prefer

ottos
france
sweden
 
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