Called shots on cockpit needs a tweak.

[MechTex]

Basically a chance reduction, 18% for any master tactician is already too high, back in the day when basically only the gauss rifle and AC20 could one shot cockpits, this was less "exploitable", but with the introduction of UACs, +DMG energy weapons, purchasable gauss rifles, Coil weapons, this makes just to begin with, farming mechs way too easy as focusing called shots on the cockpit with said weapons WILL land on any battle, often on the first try, of course this can be done not only to salvage full mechs but also to clear them out easily.

but thats not even then main problem, the MAD-3R with its extra called shot bonus makes the chances of a called headshot go to whooping 35%, and it has hardpoints for PPC's, gauss rifles, uacs or AC20's, altogether for guaranteed instant kills on a single called shot, get 2 MAD-3R or a lance of them and any mission is invalidated by insta-kills with headshots.

considering all cockpits have a maximum of 61 points armor + structure combined, wether its a locust or an atlas, the game's difficulties can be easily "averted" quite early gametime wise, even more so if a MAD-3R is found.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Good point. A tweak, a refinement, an evolution... whatever the word, and just as Angel of Death and Juggernaut were in time deemed wanting, I agree that BATTLETECH’s Headshot Mechanics should be relooked. :bow:

 

[Donvale]

Personally I just don't think headshots should ever go above about 10% or 15% when everything is maxed, they should be an interesting event or something you strive for occasionally for salvage, they should not be a game winning tactic on their own.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

As fate would have it, in my current Campaign I just picked up my very first Marauder that I am putting to extended use as a Headcapper...

...just to see for myself what that 35% had been telling me all along.


My Marauder did not disappoint. I kitted it out with a UAC10 and 4 Medium Lasers. None of the weapons had Bonus Damage, though 3 of the Medium Lasers did have Accuracy Buffs. It is early in the Campaign and I have had few High Level Battles from which to salvage high tier weapons and no Black Market visits yet to my name.

The other three Mechs were an Archer (SRM Build), Warhammer (Larger Laser Build) and a Centurion (LRM build).

In an Urban Environment, my Marauder went Headhunting while my other three Mechs were using Instability and Torso Destruction to salvage as many parts as they could.

The AI has four Assault Mechs, both flavor of Awesome, a Stalker and a Cyclops.


In five rounds my Marauder had head-capped three Assaults, while its remaining Lance-mates took down and Torso-destroyed the Cyclops.

Four Mechs, twelve pieces of Salvage. :shrug:

It was workmanlike.

It was assured.

It was like feeding Mechs to a buzzsaw.


I’ve since adopted the Crib-sheet Rule of no Headshots with my Marauder. I am a fan of its damage-reduction, and being able to absolutely nail Legs or Side Torsos on those Flanking Shots is very surgical, so the Marauder stays.

But turning it loose as a Headhunter?

Nah. That’s not for me, it takes something away from Campaign play. :bow:

 

[Corraidhin]

As fate would have it, in my current Campaign I just picked up my very first Marauder that I am putting to extended use as a Headcapper...

...just to see for myself what that 35% had been telling me all along.


My Marauder did not disappoint. I kitted it out with a UAC10 and 4 Medium Lasers. None of the weapons had Bonus Damage, though 3 of the Medium Lasers did have Accuracy Buffs. It is early in the Campaign and I have had few High Level Battles from which to salvage high tier weapons and no Black Market visits yet to my name.

The other three Mechs were an Archer (SRM Build), Warhammer (Larger Laser Build) and a Centurion (LRM build).

In an Urban Environment, my Marauder went Headhunting while my other three Mechs were using Instability and Torso Destruction to salvage as many parts as they could.

The AI has four Assault Mechs, both flavor of Awesome, a Stalker and a Cyclops.


In five rounds my Marauder had head-capped three Assaults, while its remaining Lance-mates took down and Torso-destroyed the Cyclops.

Four Mechs, twelve pieces of Salvage. :shrug:

It was workmanlike.

It was assured.

It was like feeding Mechs to a buzzsaw.


I’ve since adopted the Crib-sheet Rule of no Headshots with my Marauder. I am a fan of its damage-reduction, and being able to absolutely nail Legs or Side Torsos on those Flanking Shots is very surgical, so the Marauder stays.

But turning it loose as a Headhunter?

Nah. That’s not for me, it takes something away from Campaign play. :bow:

I have similar in that I only allow headshots when another shot has randonly taken the armour down to dark grey. Then I think a mechwarrior would go for the chance of hitting. I don't use the marauder for that though as I think that chance is just ridiculous.

Excessive headshotting should have a negative effect on reputation or something. Everyone would accept risk as a Mechwarrior, but I'm sure most would hate a company who specifically target crew. Much like historically flamethrower crews (and often snipers) were heavily mistreated/executed on the spot when captured.

 

[EmptyPepsiCan]

I have a Marauder kitted out with 3 UAC/2+++, 2 ML, and a full complement of jump jets. It just sits on a hill and wrecks everything from 10 miles away. Sometimes it feels like cheating.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I have a Marauder kitted out with 3 UAC/2+++, 2 ML, and a full complement of jump jets. It just sits on a hill and wrecks everything from 10 miles away. Sometimes it feels like cheating.

It’s not cheating if it is what the Devs put into play. :bow:

Though I admit, it as a guilty pleasure while I was testing it out. But then so were Immortal MechWarriors and Indestructible BattleMechs.

Fortunately we got Difficulty Settings for the later two, : )

 

[iLuvMyGauss]

I deft enjoy punching holes in heads with my MAR+Gauss, HLN+Gauss, KGC-+AC20++, HLN+AC10++ lance.

That said, i do believe it should be nerfed to specific situations.

You should NOT get more than 18% chance if:
- Your mech is not braced/guarded or entreched (ie. not stationary)
- Target mech has any evasion pips. Moving targets should never exceed 18% chance, should only be 5-10%
- You do not have direct line of sight (unbroken red line, target is not in cover like forest(breaching shot can't help here))
- You aren't level or at height advantage over target
- You are not facing direct front of target mech (head shot not be target-able from back or sides)

The only way you should get 35% chance is if you're facing your target head on, neither are moving, nothing is in the way. Then it can be assumed your pilot has the best optimal chance to put the piper on the head, and all other factors line up with the gods. This will force you to either leave yourself open, or spend on vigilance and hope you still have enough for precision shot. Would add more risk+tactics in choosing whether to attempt the headshot or not.

I think called shots on downed mechs should get an even higher percentage to hit as that is the equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel. If you are not moving, and you are standing 5 dots away or less from a knocked over mech who's legs are away from you and cockpit is toward you, you should get a 50% chance to hit the head.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Greater feature fidelity and Player agency when it comes to Aimed Shots and Precision Strikes would material improve the game in my estimation.

So much of the feature is already there, but whether it lends itself to attenuation of the Bonus and if it can be differentiated by Target characteristics just might be the long pole in this particular tent. :bow:

 

[Streamlock]

I do think the 35% is a bit bonkers in most situations. I like the idea of it being more granular. 25% if they did not move (for whatever reason), or a mech on its back hit 35%? Sure.

 

[Chaos Theory]

I don’t think the problem is precise shot. I do half of my headshots without using any morale abilities and there are very good non-Marauder headshot builds.

The problem is the power creep that came with Heavy Metal. As mentioned several times before, headshots were not too bad when you had to use Breaching Shot to fire a single shot from a Gauss Rifle. All this changed with the new HM weapons.

UAC2++ is the worst offender. It claims the most headshots of any weapon in my game. This weapon is absurdly overpowered and will headshot any mech in 2 hits. You can mount enough of them on many mechs (including the Marauder) to obtain a good chance to get multiple head hits via sheer brute force. Once you buy them in bulk from the Davion faction store you can turn any mech with multiple ballistic hardpoints into a decent headhunter.

Inferno++ makes it way too easy to shutdown a mech from 0-heat. I use 4 of them on a Jagermech-A with two missile TTS to ensure that that something gets shut down every turn. Shutdown enemies lose Evasion, Guarded, and Bulwark making them sitting ducks for headshots.

TAG can be stacked allowing ERMLas++ to become a very effective 1-hit headshot weapon that can be added to the energy hardpoints on mechs that have tonnage and/or heat left over after UAC2++.

Even if headshots were changed, these weapons are so overpowering that you can easily change strategy to core or leg enemies instead.

In general, I think the Heavy Metal power creep has caused gameplay to degrade a bit. Stacking modifiers in general are a problem. I have yet to try stacking NARCs to see if I can turn a Cyclops-Q or a Kintaro into an SRM headshot monster - still trying to gather enough ammo. You don’t need high percentages when you can make up with sheer volume of fire.

 

[Orbitone]

I have a Marauder kitted out with 3 UAC/2+++, 2 ML, and a full complement of jump jets. It just sits on a hill and wrecks everything from 10 miles away. Sometimes it feels like cheating.

It is an interesting experience when you try that and then go back to equipping the MAD with 2xPPCs and then play a rule they both need to be fired as well, balances my Marauder quite a lot but comes down to how you want to play longer term after the fun factor of the extreme Marauder (kinda fun also trying the lostech LL and no PPCs route as well before going back to PPCs).

 

[Prussian Havoc]

It is an interesting experience when you try that and then go back to equipping the MAD with 2xPPCs and then play a rule they both need to be fired as well, balances my Marauder quite a lot but comes down to how you want to play longer term after the fun factor of the extreme Marauder (kinda fun also trying the lostech LL and no PPCs route as well before going back to PPCs).

A rule that both PPCs need to be fired simultaneously or not at all?

Based form a book? Or just a fun rule?

 

[Orbitone]

A rule that both PPCs need to be fired simultaneously or not at all?

Based form a book? Or just a fun rule?

More for fun and to balance the 35%, but it also works nice in bonus to other locations so even though using PPCs they work out kinda fine as they have greater Precision Shot consistency relative to PPCs used in general with other mechs, also removed the 10% team bonus as kinda not keen on that in context of Marauder quirks but different topic.
And yeah I play mostly both need to fire (or could have it only one fire alternatively with both still installed but I love the old lore fiction of the Marauder firing both PPCs and then having to alternate), however in my games I have balanced PPCs to generate less heat but still notably more than everything else, which works fine IMO as many of the mechs the enemy AI use have PPCs.

It is trickier to turn the Marauder into a very strong head hunter with the PPCs installed even if you do not fire them and rely upon the other weapons (no more practical multiple UAC2 or going lostech LL++ due to other big compromises required if the PPCs also kept), but this is just a fun preference play and yeah I also had fun-giggles going extreme Marauder for a while.

 

[EmptyPepsiCan]

I'm looking forward to seeing just how ludicrously overpowered the 5 X AC/2++ Annihilator turns out to be.

If my numbers are right that's 420 points of damage a turn. From extreme range. With no heat issues. Every single Precision Shot should be a near guaranteed kill on literally anything. It's not even hard to assemble.

I know that this is a thread about called headshots, and I imagine that that Annihilator build would produce a near guaranteed pilot kill, but it goes well beyond that. A 420 point Precision/Called Shot barrage should also be enough to leg, disarm, or core anything in the game.

 

[Streamlock]

I don’t think the problem is precise shot. I do half of my headshots without using any morale abilities and there are very good non-Marauder headshot builds.

The problem is the power creep that came with Heavy Metal. As mentioned several times before, headshots were not too bad when you had to use Breaching Shot to fire a single shot from a Gauss Rifle. All this changed with the new HM weapons.

UAC2++ is the worst offender. It claims the most headshots of any weapon in my game. This weapon is absurdly overpowered and will headshot any mech in 2 hits. You can mount enough of them on many mechs (including the Marauder) to obtain a good chance to get multiple head hits via sheer brute force. Once you buy them in bulk from the Davion faction store you can turn any mech with multiple ballistic hardpoints into a decent headhunter.

Inferno++ makes it way too easy to shutdown a mech from 0-heat. I use 4 of them on a Jagermech-A with two missile TTS to ensure that that something gets shut down every turn. Shutdown enemies lose Evasion, Guarded, and Bulwark making them sitting ducks for headshots.

TAG can be stacked allowing ERMLas++ to become a very effective 1-hit headshot weapon that can be added to the energy hardpoints on mechs that have tonnage and/or heat left over after UAC2++.

Even if headshots were changed, these weapons are so overpowering that you can easily change strategy to core or leg enemies instead.

In general, I think the Heavy Metal power creep has caused gameplay to degrade a bit. Stacking modifiers in general are a problem. I have yet to try stacking NARCs to see if I can turn a Cyclops-Q or a Kintaro into an SRM headshot monster - still trying to gather enough ammo. You don’t need high percentages when you can make up with sheer volume of fire.

While the power creep in TT served to create a balance mess for PvP games, on some level I wonder if in HBS Battletech, it some what of a natural progression. Let me explain:

With the AI being what it is, one of the primary knobs to turn to increase difficulty and challenge is by A: Throwing more tonnage at the player, B: Giving multiple objectives forcing you to split you lance up which is limited to a hard 4 mechs, and C: Implementing timed objectives.

Within this context, a player needs to burn through a mech in quick fashion. Particularly if some combination of A/B/C are used. So the power creep serves a function of keeping the player able to handle what would be an absurd scenario for TT. There have certainly been missions where I just forgo salvage and core everything in sight. I am admittedly not "pro" at the game.

/shrug Maybe. Just a thought.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

...Within this context, a player needs to burn through a mech in quick fashion. Particularly if some combination of A/B/C are used. So the power creep serves a function of keeping the player able to handle what would be an absurd scenario for TT. There have certainly been missions where I just forgo salvage and core everything in sight. I am admittedly not "pro" at the game.

/shrug Maybe. Just a thought.

You are as much a 'pro" at this game as I am, and I burn out CTs as my preferred Method of "Winning" in all four Modes of BATTLETECH - Campaign, Career, Single Player Skirmish and Multiplayer Skirmish Modes.

I don't collect many Gyros but I dang sure rack and stack a ton of Plus-Weapons. : )

 

[Corraidhin]

You are as much a 'pro" at this game as I am, and I burn out CTs as my preferred Method of "Winning" in all four Modes of BATTLETECH - Campaign, Career, Single Player Skirmish and Multiplayer Skirmish Modes.

I don't collect many Gyros but I dang sure rack and stack a ton of Plus-Weapons. : )

I too prefer to core OpFor 'mechs like over-ripe apples. The Annihilator with uac/5s lives up to it's name here, anything below ~90 tons is doomed in most cases. If you get unlucky and a few rounds scatter from the PS, your next mech in line will have little trouble finishing the job

Watching a locust eat a full salvo with supporting MLs is very pleasing (and good for cleaning up the salvage table a bit). It's right up there with DFAing said locust with an Atlas.