Campaign missions that depend on allies are a crapshoot.

[Frogshackle]

I've hit a campaign mission where I was up against a vastly superior enemy and the only way to resolve things was by forming alliances with several AI leaders. That *sounds* fine except that the absolutely passive allies of mine basically sat around, turtling up in their capitals for the entire war - leaving me to do 100% of the heavy lifting.

I still managed to win the scenario through a lucky strike that took out the AI capital and a hit-and-run mission to assassinate the enemy leader (who was away on errands or something) but I was losing 2-3 outposts per turn as the enemy just swept through my lands on an unstoppable murder spree. And all the while my "buddies" never lifted a damned finger (and this also includes the npc Autonom and Growth factions that I had convinced to join the war effort).

At any rate, my point is that missions that require you to rely on an AI ally are pretty weak when you can't count on the ally to invest any effort whatsoever. They're the 4X equivalent of an escort mission.

 

[Badok]

True that. Moreover, AI seems to want to wait around until it has a substantial advantage before rolling out and attacking (even if they're constantly at war). In one campaign mission (not certain, but it might've been Syn1) the last task was to eliminate the last AI. I marched in confidently, only to realise that the enemy had seven (literally seven) full stacks parked in his capital.

I took a few turns to recruit and equip three murderstacks - all the while my ally at war was also sitting on 5-7 stacks in his crown city - and managed to break through. I left two stacks alive because I wanted to finish some research and equip high-end gear on my leader, but lo and behold: My 'ally' rolls in guns blazing, ready to heroically walk over long decomposed bodies and claim victory...

Not gonna lie, I was kinda impressed by how much of a scumbag the AI was, but the situation was annoying nonetheless.

 

[Vind7]

You need AI only for limited trading while they got some energy to spare. Also they will steal city 1 hex away from your armies because they can. But in the latest mission they are useful tools for attracting enemies.To profit from allied AI you must surrender to it half of the map so it build hordes and attack at last.

 

[Mzimoxs]

I have no experience with this, but have you ever tried requesting an attack for 40 influence? Maybe this can actually get your allies off their feet.

 

[The Founder]

True that. Moreover, AI seems to want to wait around until it has a substantial advantage before rolling out and attacking (even if they're constantly at war).

That is not "moreover". More like "yes, and this is how it works". It waiting for the advantage is how it get's to that situation.
But at the same time, it has to wait. If it looses a combat, there is a decent chance it will get steamrolled in return. The Garission is good at detering scout rushes, but not going to stop anything remotely determined.

In one campaign mission (not certain, but it might've been Syn1) the last task was to eliminate the last AI. I marched in confidently, only to realise that the enemy had seven (literally seven) full stacks parked in his capital.

There are 2 ways to deal with that:
1. Ruin their economy. Being out of funds is a massive Morale Penalty, wich can cause outright desertion. Note that some Secret Tech Mods make the unit immune to morale, but if he is out of funds that means he can not really build new units
2. You can take out one stack at a time with up to 5 stacks. Only the target and 6 adjacent stacks can fight. So if you surround them or attack from the right angle, you can limit the forces that are drawn in. The maximum you can reliably field on the defense is 3 armies in a triangle-formation + garission.

 

[Badok]

That is not "moreover". More like "yes, and this is how it works". It waiting for the advantage is how it get's to that situation.
But at the same time, it has to wait. If it looses a combat, there is a decent chance it will get steamrolled in return. The Garission is good at detering scout rushes, but not going to stop anything remotely determined.

And it is a... Won't say 'good', but it's a 'some' way for opposing the player. However, when it comes to AI vs AI they'll just bunker up their thrones and throw ops at each other, unless one already has crushing advantage over the other.

There are 2 ways to deal with that:
1. Ruin their economy. Being out of funds is a massive Morale Penalty, wich can cause outright desertion. Note that some Secret Tech Mods make the unit immune to morale, but if he is out of funds that means he can not really build new units
2. You can take out one stack at a time with up to 5 stacks. Only the target and 6 adjacent stacks can fight. So if you surround them or attack from the right angle, you can limit the forces that are drawn in. The maximum you can reliably field on the defense is 3 armies in a triangle-formation + garission.

Yeah, I know how the game works. I was mostly just complaining

ad 1. I'm not sure it would work. Judging by armies they're able to field with as little as two cities, AIs cheat for obscene amount of money and cosmite. Anyway, didn't have patience to deal with them this way so I chose brute force.
ad 2. Yup. Unless the AI literally has seven stacks in a hex formation, forcing you to attack 3 versus 4.

 

[Sifer2]

I have no experience with this, but have you ever tried requesting an attack for 40 influence? Maybe this can actually get your allies off their feet.

In my experience it's a complete waste of influence. They will just say "Hmm let me think about it, and get back to you on that!". Then do nothing but continue to turtle then a few turns later they are like "Hmm were still going need more time to think about this." Your basically paying them 40 influence to get the run around lol.

And yes like the guy above says the moment you actually turn the tide of the war, and win a major battle weakening the enemy your "allies" know it, and swarm in to grab what they can. It's like the videogame equivalent of the last days of World War 2. The AI in this is just a total opportunist with map hack.

 

[Frogshackle]

I appreciate that they are trying to make the Age of Wonders diplomacy more robust than what existed in AoW3 but so far I find that a lot of it is window dressing when it comes down to making requests, etc. 100 hours of time in this game and I have had ZERO allies agree to help in a battle, I've never had any other faction agree to becoming a vassal no matter how brutally I was destroying them, and I've never had a single reasonable trade offer (energy for cosmite, etc.) that I introduced be accepted. With that in mind I've stopped wasting time/influence with that stuff and that's a shame.

 

[Scottgun]

On the one hand, if an AI ally asked me to go to war, I wouldn't do jack squat until I was good and ready. On the other hand, it would be nice if an ally would do something even if it was just harassment.

 

[Ericridge]

That's because the AI thinks in very different terms than humans do. They think in very fatalistic and pessimistic way. I don't blame them for it. Ai routinely launch attacks in superior positions only to get handed an defeat.

But think of it in this way, they might make you do the bulk of work in weakening the major enemy and you are softened up by the fight too.. but allies can at least keep up the pressure on the major enemy to make it hard for them to rebuild and smash you.

 

[Goblin-Cookie]

I think the AI is just making sure the human player pulls their weight and does not just use them as a distraction while they build doomsday weapons. Tried that in the final Amazon scenario but then found that doomsday win was in fact deactivated.

 

[Elgareth]

I appreciate that they are trying to make the Age of Wonders diplomacy more robust than what existed in AoW3 but so far I find that a lot of it is window dressing when it comes down to making requests, etc. 100 hours of time in this game and I have had ZERO allies agree to help in a battle, I've never had any other faction agree to becoming a vassal no matter how brutally I was destroying them, and I've never had a single reasonable trade offer (energy for cosmite, etc.) that I introduced be accepted. With that in mind I've stopped wasting time/influence with that stuff and that's a shame.

Funnily enough in my very first Scenario played, the first enemy I almost defeated agreed to become my vassal. That was on easy though...
But really, when you stand in front of his last colony with a superior army, his commander inside that capitol, so he'd just be wiped from the map, and you suggest he'd become your vassal... why don't they? Seems pretty suicidal to me. "I would rather die than become your slave" sounds a bit harsh when you are the leader of a (once) planet-wide factions...

And yeah, it seems just the same as in every 4X game, the AI either trades in massive favour for them, or not at all. You can Kind of trick them into giving you a bit of energy/cosmite for opening their borders or allowing them to build on your sectors for 10 turns when they are nowhere near you, but apart from that...
Which I can understand, otherwise you could easily exploit that in one way or the other, but still it's a bit sad. I don't know what can be done about that either... a Workaround would be that you could force pacts and trades by using influence maybe.

 

[Sifer2]

Actually to be fair here trading is currently one of the only two useful things you can do with the AI through diplomacy. The first is getting a NAP so you don't have to worry about them opportunistically declaring war the moment they know you moved away from your cities to go attack someone else. The other is milking them for their Cosmite. Yes it's like a 4 to 1 rate of trade if you use balance trade offer. But the Cosmite is often worth it.