• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Krajzen

Field Marshal
29 Badges
Aug 29, 2014
5.115
9.382
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
Imagine a situation: you are calmly exploring space, when suddenly a hostile fleet flies to your colony and exterminates it; they've seen you before you saw them, and they decided to kill you immediately because they are fanatically xenophobic. And then they refuse to talk with you unless you defeat them in an initial war.

Of course this could be frustrating, so I'd love some menu option enabling that feature - and I'd enable it for myself, as it would create additional tension: you never know if you're going to establish diplomatic contact with an alien race... Or be suddenly obliterated by it ;)
 
  • 16
  • 1
Reactions:
I have actually thought a lot about role playing a race that would do that: a xenophobic and militaristic society that explores with a large war fleet, attacking any/all races that they find. Purging the galaxy of anything but useful soldier races.
 
  • 3
Reactions:
This is a hard topic. It should be fair and fun for the players, and getting rekt right off the bat without a stupid move on the player's end is not fun. However, factions are completely different species. It is not impossible for one to feel no reason not to go on an extermination war since they don't have the rational as humans do. Though maybe it can be explained that all starting factions are advanced ENOUGH to at least know ahead of time if "something wicked this-way comes".
 
This is a hard topic. It should be fair and fun for the players, and getting rekt right off the bat without a stupid move on the player's end is not fun. However, factions are completely different species. It is not impossible for one to feel no reason not to go on an extermination war since they don't have the rational as humans do. Though maybe it can be explained that all starting factions are advanced ENOUGH to at least know ahead of time if "something wicked this-way comes".

Due to the symmetrical start, I wouldn't expect you to be in much danger of an early game wipe. They might hit your colonies hard, but unless you've totally neglected your military you should do okay against any empire doing this.
 
  • 3
Reactions:
It's to be expected by the xeno scum, treacherous and cowardly, that is the nature of the xenos.

In all seriously, I hope we get some minor crazy faction like those raiders from Firefly.

Ah nice, an untouched planet that is perfect for my people. In the name of the emperor we will estabilsh a colony here and expand the reach of the imperium. Months pass and the small settlement circulated around the colony ship at the planet is steadily developing into a minor city. Suddenly out of nowhere a huge fleet appears that mass bombard the major hubs of the settlement before crazed marauders charges out of dropships with everything from lasguns to cleavers in arms. Slaughtering everyone in their bloodfueled rage. By the end of the day, the once bustling settlement is turned to a smoking ash of rubble, corpses and bones.
 
Losing is fun! :3
I know, but I hope we know what each other mean by "losing". Losing 10 turns in doesn't sound like fun, though I feel like I am really underestimating Paradox' ability to balance this to be both immersive and fun.
 
I have actually thought a lot about role playing a race that would do that: a xenophobic and militaristic society that explores with a large war fleet, attacking any/all races that they find. Purging the galaxy of anything but useful soldier races.

That sounds totally impractical. Even the Mycon know better, and they're barely conscious:
Juffo-Wup acknowledges the existence of un-Voidable Non. When we are faced with such, we join, absorb and wait for our opportunity to learn the weakness that will allow us to Void the Non.
 
  • 1
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
That sounds totally impractical. Even the Mycon know better, and they're barely conscious:
Oh, I know. I imagine that I will wind up eventually getting destroyed by a vast multitude of pissed off aliens that i went around and burned colonies, sucker punched fleets, and killed their scientists.

I have no illusions that it is a "winning" strategy, just one that would be fun every once in a while.
 
  • 5
Reactions:
Ahh reavers...

If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing – and if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.

Yeah, might not even be crazed reavers like that but extremists. Some xeno religious/political independent sect that will do anything to stop certain races to colonise certain sectors of the galaxy. Which in turn will cause problems with main empires.

For example as humans you want to colonise a certain sector (lets call it sector x). This sector is really close to a neighbouring empire of some other specie. A certain militaristic faction in that neighbouring empire is extremely xenophobic and sees this colonisation as an act of aggression upon their empire.

So they take up arms and use terror and guerilla tactics to get rid of these "xenos".This faction is not under direct control of the neighbouring empire but they are "vigilantes" that attack in the name of their empire. So if this neighbouring empire of us humans don't do anything to stop them it can lead to extreme diplomatic difficulties and outright war. Of course this is also a good idea of the neighbouring empire to have a CB for a war by, in secrecy promoting these said groups with weapons and resources for the goal of a war (which officially they did not start but an vigilante group).
 
  • 2
Reactions:
This should definitely be possible - hostile first contact isn't anything unheard of in sci-fi. And I wouldn't worry about insta-wipes; that huge exterminatus fleet doesn't just come from nowhere, it has to be build first, while smaller incursions can certainly be repelled even by a basic spaceport.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
This should definitely be possible - hostile first contact isn't anything unheard of in sci-fi. And I wouldn't worry about insta-wipes; that huge exterminatus fleet doesn't just come from nowhere, it has to be build first, while smaller incursions can certainly be repelled even by a basic spaceport.
We already know that we can striaght up war of the worlds primitive planets so why not do the same with advance civs
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
I have actually thought a lot about role playing a race that would do that: a xenophobic and militaristic society that explores with a large war fleet, attacking any/all races that they find. Purging the galaxy of anything but useful soldier races.
I really REALLY hope that this isn't actually possible to pull off in game. It would mean that not only is the AI laughably incompetent, but that the game itself is easier than playing Ottomans in EU4.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
How would this be functionally different than meeting and then immediately having war declared (on you)?

There seems to some concern about fairness and losing in 10 turns (which don't exist in this game), but if you meet a new civ in Civ5, there's nothing stopping it from instantly declaring war. Why couldn't a space empire do the same thing?
 
I think this would actually be par the course for a heavily xenophobic or militaristic species in a normal game.
 
This kind of touches on an idea I had a while back about 'Monster Races,' which while a bit on the nose for a title, gets the point across.

Everyone in Stellaris is kinda playing by the same rules, and that's a good thing. It means that diplomacy is important and war is structured and deals can be struck between the winners and losers of a war that actually have some depth. But most other Paradox games have (or through DLC, end up having) some other types of factions that play by a different set of rules, who aren't held to the same restrictions, maybe have their own sets of restrictions, and whom you can interact with in different ways. Not requiring CB to annex pagan territories, for example.

I really hope (and expect) to see this applied to Stellaris in the form of 'monster races.' So that we can have the structured diplomacy-centric empires who follow their shared sets of rules and negotiation, and then we can have empires that follow a different set of rules. Mindless insect races bent on expansion and consumption, unintelligible machines bent on replication with no empathy for the living, grey-goo infestations that take over huge chunks of the galaxy. Things that you can't reason with, things that never stop being a threat, things which could appear and erupt at a moment's notice, engulfing a remote part of the galaxy and growing into a force to be reckoned with. Things that in many ways act like an empire, but can't be bribed or appeased, or held to peace terms. Tropes, certainly, but good ones, reasonable ones, that I think belong in the game. Space should be a little scary. Not everything capable of hurting you should be something you can reason with.

BUT ANYWAY, more to the original topic's point; a lot of games start in a 'cold war' state, where you can freely attack anyone in neutral territory without declaring war on them, and of course, you can destroy any foreign ship in your territory. I think this makes some sense, but it does limit you a bit. What if you stumble into alien space without realizing it? What if you attack one of their ships there? Should that immediately establish diplomatic relations and put you at war? I don't think so, at least.

I think that establishing diplomatic relations with other alien species should be a process, and not something we take for granted. And I think that agreements about territory and the like should require relations. How do I know what space that lizard considers hers until I've spoken with them? And how have I spoken with them if I don't know their language?

It could be a little frustrating at first, with ships stumbling into eachother's space and tensions rising, but that could just be an incentive to establish communications. Or if you're xenophobic, incentive to attack their planets without ever breathing a word to them.
 
  • 7
Reactions:
This kind of touches on an idea I had a while back about 'Monster Races,' which while a bit on the nose for a title, gets the point across.

Everyone in Stellaris is kinda playing by the same rules, and that's a good thing. It means that diplomacy is important and war is structured and deals can be struck between the winners and losers of a war that actually have some depth. But most other Paradox games have (or through DLC, end up having) some other types of factions that play by a different set of rules, who aren't held to the same restrictions, maybe have their own sets of restrictions, and whom you can interact with in different ways. Not requiring CB to annex pagan territories, for example.

I really hope (and expect) to see this applied to Stellaris in the form of 'monster races.' So that we can have the structured diplomacy-centric empires who follow their shared sets of rules and negotiation, and then we can have empires that follow a different set of rules. Mindless insect races bent on expansion and consumption, unintelligible machines bent on replication with no empathy for the living, grey-goo infestations that take over huge chunks of the galaxy. Things that you can't reason with, things that never stop being a threat, things which could appear and erupt at a moment's notice, engulfing a remote part of the galaxy and growing into a force to be reckoned with. Things that in many ways act like an empire, but can't be bribed or appeased, or held to peace terms. Tropes, certainly, but good ones, reasonable ones, that I think belong in the game. Space should be a little scary. Not everything capable of hurting you should be something you can reason with.

BUT ANYWAY, more to the original topic's point; a lot of games start in a 'cold war' state, where you can freely attack anyone in neutral territory without declaring war on them, and of course, you can destroy any foreign ship in your territory. I think this makes some sense, but it does limit you a bit. What if you stumble into alien space without realizing it? What if you attack one of their ships there? Should that immediately establish diplomatic relations and put you at war? I don't think so, at least.

I think that establishing diplomatic relations with other alien species should be a process, and not something we take for granted. And I think that agreements about territory and the like should require relations. How do I know what space that lizard considers hers until I've spoken with them? And how have I spoken with them if I don't know their language?

It could be a little frustrating at first, with ships stumbling into eachother's space and tensions rising, but that could just be an incentive to establish communications. Or if you're xenophobic, incentive to attack their planets without ever breathing a word to them.

Like the end game disaster species, but playable?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Like the end game disaster species, but playable?
I like the idea of "Monster races". I don't think they necessarily need be playable, or limited to just the end game. I think NPC "Monster empires" could be interesting, and making them restricted to NPCs could allow for them to have follow mechanics that wouldn't necessarily be as fun to play but may mesh better with the rest of the game. Plus, I think with the amount of novel concepts going into this game already, it would be likely for paradox (if they incorporate these sort of entities) would leave the addition of assymetric gameplay styles to future expansions. I love the assymetric gameplay of different races in Endless Legend, but I feel like they sacrificed a lot of complexity to allow the balancing of its various playable races.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
I know, but I hope we know what each other mean by "losing". Losing 10 turns in doesn't sound like fun, though I feel like I am really underestimating Paradox' ability to balance this to be both immersive and fun.

seams like you haven't played DF where the saying "losing am fun" comes from. My record am to loose within a week of in-game-time.. Similar to a month in Eu/Ck/vicky-sience.

And that am pretty fun