Capitalist Behavior

[henryjai]

I think many players, including me, are lost in how to make use of the capitalists, please, post your own "tip" and experience about using capitalists!


For me, capitalists usually save up a good amount of money in early game, they are good for taxing and building cheap railroads/factories with less machine parts. This is particularly good when playing low-prestige countries that cannot buy Machine parts from WM.


However, what I don't like about capitalists are that they have strange building habits, one factor deciding which factory they'll build is demand/supply, when you need to import a certain stuff, they'll be more likely to build factories that produce the kind of goods you lack.


They also hesitate to expand factories, they just keep expanding steel and steamer factories if you started a naval arms race. Since UK would keep importing steamers and sharply raise the demand.


Sometimes, the cappis DO expand the other factories, that is more likely when all kinds of factories are built. Still, this is no guarantee. I found that the cappis liked to expand stupid factories like dye factories... (this is indeed stupid, dye is still more profitable than glass)


Also, if your country is not fully industrialised, the capitalist income would suffer, that means they'll not build any kind of stuffs unless you subsidize them.

 

[unmerged(157031)]

I've never found the cappi's building habits to be that irritating. Usually they'll build a nice range of factories, and they tend to expand the profitable ones. Still, if you find them irritating, remember that type of government and taxation affect how much money they make. Large cappis are better than small ones, but humongous one (e.g. 80,000) lower the nationwide cappi income.If they have a huge income then you're more likely to get the factory you want (Because they'' be building more).

 

[henryjai]

I've never found the cappi's building habits to be that irritating. Usually they'll build a nice range of factories, and they tend to expand the profitable ones. Still, if you find them irritating, remember that type of government and taxation affect how much money they make. Large cappis are better than small ones, but humongous one (e.g. 80,000) lower the nationwide cappi income.If they have a huge income then you're more likely to get the factory you want (Because they'' be building more).

Capitalists give production bonus to your factories (Which in turn makes more money), and it is scaled to their size, it is not a bad idea to promote huge cappi POPs in your larger/more populated states. (you could have up to 50% production bonus, which is very very nice if you have lots of factories in that state.)

 

[gornard]

tips about cappis:
1, capitalists gain money relative to the wealth of their provinces so capitalists in sparsely populated provinces with poor RGOs or a non national majority will gain money slowley.
2, as you close in on the 1890s the capitalists will often slow to a crawl as new luxury goods enter the market, the costs are usually massive and supply is low, often all but the richest of capitalists will stop building. I'm not sure when this begins to stop exactly. Thats not really so much a tip as a dread warning

 

[dwhawk119]

I've never seemed to have a problem with capitalists and what they build. You might need to build factories for military goods yourself because they usually aren't built by capitalists.

Just make sure you keep your rich taxes at 0% to give your capitalists money to kick start your economy at the beginning of the game.

 

[pizza de oveja]

Just my two cents:

While it is true that I've never had monopoly when that tech triggers (I've read capies in monopoly tend to expand factories, in my games I’ve seen it only 1 time they doing a factory expansion) so far capitalist building in overall is a total nonsense. They love those cool glass factories, and they dont care that you need more semi-finished products for other industries (like wood panels). They just love those unproductive overproded products when they could be gloriously expanding the steel mills and the lucrative industry of clothes and furniture, that would reap them huge benefits. You end up having to do it yourself. Cappies in the game behave like governments in reality and governments in the game behave like businessmen in reality. So it needs a bit of mental REadjustment to the realities of the game.

It would be great that in vic II we, as government, have a way of giving especial tax cuts or to make purchasing orders (in case of wars) to private industry to develop more this one or that (the current way of only having the correct factories with a socialist economy is just lame, as that is exactly the opposite of what happens in reality). Also in real life industries close and open or readapt according to demand, liberating resources to change activity and be used in more profitable productions, not like in the game with its soviet system of factory construction and overproduction of unlucrative products that dont have demand either in the global or in the country's market.

But given Vic I system we have, I think the way to go is promoting 30.000+ pop to cappies(governments creating businessmen, now that one is good:rofl in provinces with a lot of people in unproductive RGO's (you can do that because in paradox games food is never depicted, it is not even a resource), so with any luck they will build at least one good factory you can latter expand.

I like the proven good ol tactic of putting an interventionist government in power and expand all the factories that give you the most money (steel, furniture, ships, clothes...) kick-starting your economy and then let the polls decide again, so mil does not get sky hight. Rail construction by capitalist really saves you a lot of money and resources, with the added benefit of making production sky rocket, so liberal governments (not in the anglosaxon meaning of the word) is a must in the early game.

You need to already have a few *right* factories constructed. I wanted to have a huge ship building industry(you reap a trainload o benefits and also you get much cheaper ship building) but my cappies apparently dont like profit and like a lot more overproduced ultra low profit products like crystal, or explosives when I dont have enough fertilizer for them and there is not any in the global market, and so I didnt have any ship factory to expand. I fear if I miraculously get one I will be having interventionist in power soon.

YOu get a mil penalty(+1 if HMS executive 0 if you have parlamentary one!) when you force a government in power, but as long as you are not banning any party (+0,3 penalty to mil in a pop if their prefered party is banned!!!! by far the greatest penaly in the game to mil). A complicated tactic if you have a democracy or a laws by decree executive (+2 mil for changing goverments all your pops, that really hurts.)

Around late XIX century, cappies will be buying so much stuff that they wont be building much (also If you are heavy industrialised with the +100 building cost(if I remember correctly) per factory in your country they will need a trainload of money to build one more) so it is the time to promote an interventionist party to power (which makes no sense in reality, the more a government acts in the economy the more it cripples it, but given the socialist bias in the game it is the way to go).

 

[gornard]

It would be great that in vic II we, as government, have a way of giving especial tax cuts or to make purchasing orders (in case of wars) to private industry to develop more this one or that (the current way of only having the correct factories with a socialist economy is just lame, as that is exactly the opposite of what happens in reality). Also in real life industries close and open or readapt according to demand, liberating resources to change activity and be used in more profitable productions, not like in the game with its soviet system of factory construction and overproduction of unlucrative products that dont have demand either in the global or in the country's market.

Thats not strictly true, in lassiez faire economies (or as close as you can realistically get to one) especially in the 19th century, overproduction in certain areas can be common. Information is rarely as available or clear as it is in game, so things like this did happen, market forces aren't perfect by a long shot in the real world. Think of the overproduction of glass factories as a market bubble, although it is quite common in game. Glass factories are usually a start up operation due to the availability and price of it's resources but unless you are in one of the economically stunted countries you'll soon move onto more lucrative products such as clothes, luxury furniture, steamers etc.
Only in command economies do governments strive to build specific factories to fill specific market niches, this almost never happens in capatilist countries. Diversity of production is also more common in lassiez faire economies, command or planned economies tend to focus on cash crops and monolithic heavy industry such as steel.

But given Vic I system we have, I think the way to go is promoting 30.000+ pop to cappies(governments creating businessmen, now that one is good:rofl in provinces with a lot of people in unproductive RGO's (you can do that because in paradox games food is never depicted, it is not even a resource), so with any luck they will build at least one good factory you can latter expand.

this is unrealistic alright, but they are solving it in Vicky 2

I like the proven good ol tactic of putting an interventionist government in power and expand all the factories that give you the most money (steel, furniture, ships, clothes...) kick-starting your economy and then let the polls decide again, so mil does not get sky hight. Rail construction by capitalist really saves you a lot of money and resources, with the added benefit of making production sky rocket, so liberal governments (not in the anglosaxon meaning of the word) is a must in the early game.

This is a good strategy, lassiez faire first. You can mantian this by making voting by wealth only as capitalists and clerks are often liberal.Once you have factories everywhere and production begins to slow (every new factory increases the price of the next one) switch the vote to sufferage which allows all the working class conservatives to vote and gets you an interventionalist govt. to expand factories.

 

[unmerged(164401)]

i sometimes feel like (and again, this are just speculations) cappies lean more to building factories in which resources are produced nationally. last Japan game, cappies never bothered building any fabric factory, or canned food in which both factories required resources i did not produce. another interesting behavior i noticed too is that cappies didn't build the automobile and plane factories until they they built an electric gear. i usually leave a good amount of stockpile for these rare goods. may be that is a way of telling them "lets take adv. of this resource".

 

[unmerged(157031)]

What I do find irritating about industrialising is when you want a conservative party in power to expand all of your profitable industry, but can't because so much of your poulation has converted to crafts,em that 70% of it are liberal. I suppose that's the downfall of chosing establishment over populism...

 

[rjf101]

I really don't like capitolists. As the UK, I find that they never - and I mean NEVER - stop building factories. I'm currently in the 1890's, and for the moment things have improved as the massive population growth I've been getting recently means that I've been able to keep most factories full. But back in the 1850's - 1880's, almost all of my factories had less than 70% of jobs filled, and yet the capitolists STILL kept building factories! Every time I demolished one, the very next month they'd just build another. They really couldn't take a hint for some reason. And what really sucks is that the laissez-faire Whig Party has had an absolute monopoly on politics ever since the start of the game. In most games I can get a reactionary party into power, but as the UK I find that my reactionary POP's revolt like crazy. So I can't risk a large reactionary population. And don't even get me started on how capitolists build railroads. I don't need a world-class rail line in the frozen tundras of Nunavut, thank you very much. I'm sure those 4,000 Inuit can just use dog-sleds in they need to get somewhere.

Sorry for all the ranting but THAT is what I think of capitolists in Victoria. They're annoying little creeps I'd rather live without. And I simply can't wait until Victoria II comes out, because I've heard that capitolists are going to have a lot more sense. Also, politics will be easier to manipulate and more variable, so even if capitolists drive me crazy in the new game, I can get reactionaries or socialists in power and not have to worry about it.

 

[gornard]

I really don't like capitolists. As the UK, I find that they never - and I mean NEVER - stop building factories. I'm currently in the 1890's, and for the moment things have improved as the massive population growth I've been getting recently means that I've been able to keep most factories full. But back in the 1850's - 1880's, almost all of my factories had less than 70% of jobs filled, and yet the capitolists STILL kept building factories! Every time I demolished one, the very next month they'd just build another. They really couldn't take a hint for some reason. And what really sucks is that the laissez-faire Whig Party has had an absolute monopoly on politics ever since the start of the game. In most games I can get a reactionary party into power, but as the UK I find that my reactionary POP's revolt like crazy. So I can't risk a large reactionary population. And don't even get me started on how capitolists build railroads. I don't need a world-class rail line in the frozen tundras of Nunavut, thank you very much. I'm sure those 4,000 Inuit can just use dog-sleds in they need to get somewhere.

Sorry for all the ranting but THAT is what I think of capitolists in Victoria. They're annoying little creeps I'd rather live without. And I simply can't wait until Victoria II comes out, because I've heard that capitolists are going to have a lot more sense. Also, politics will be easier to manipulate and more variable, so even if capitolists drive me crazy in the new game, I can get reactionaries or socialists in power and not have to worry about it.

your complaining that you have too many factories?
Also all those free railroads you get all over your empire contribute to industrial score and production in their provinces. So it's win win.

 

[rjf101]

LOL yeah it may sound strange! But for me, the best thing about Victoria is the realism. And capitolists in the game just don't create realistic economies or railroads. Actually I guess over-building factorie sis realistic, but the railroads they build couldn't be further from representing real life.

 

[pizza de oveja]

i sometimes feel like (and again, this are just speculations) cappies lean more to building factories in which resources are produced nationally. last Japan game, cappies never bothered building any fabric factory, or canned food in which both factories required resources i did not produce. another interesting behavior i noticed too is that cappies didn't build the automobile and plane factories until they they built an electric gear. i usually leave a good amount of stockpile for these rare goods. may be that is a way of telling them "lets take adv. of this resource".

Hi ELpasha

Yep thats what I was trying to point out...it is quite frustrating.
According to the viky wiki manual (which is full of generalities and doesnt have a single specific value) your capies will build factories whose final products are scarce in the global market. I cant confirm whether or not that is true, but certainly it seems weird for capies to build factories whose raw materials cant be found anywere.

That IMHO is part of the frustration that rjf101 has with those evil capitolist, but that is precisely why we are talking about a game in which a socialist dictatorship is much more efficient than a liberal(not in the anglosaxon meaning of the word) democracy, in which those pesky capitolist just keep wasting money building useless factories when you dont have either the manpower or the raw materials or there is no demand for it...IMHO the programmers got it all wrong and reversed what happens in real life with those systems, but it is true that is very gratifying for me at least to put a socialist government in power and fix all those inefficiencies the stupidos capitolist have created. Tis a powerfull motivation for continue playing this game long before it supposedly become obsolete!

I can understand that if the game had real life businessmen the player as governmental overlord wouldn’t have much to do except declare wars and siphon wealth from the private sector, but I think that a compromise would be the way to go for vic 2, so each political system behaves like they do in real life.

 

[henryjai]

In my last sweden game, the swedish empire has >50 million Swedish Culture POP, ready to industrialise and rise to the #1 world power.

Not a single electric gear factory is built, or actually, there are not a single electric gear produced in the whole world till 1936.

The only thing I do is to occupy a large area of North America (All Mexico's non-cores, including Oregon) and satellited USA, CSA and Mexico...

No telephones = no dreadnoughts, and the advanced battleships I built crushed the glorious English navy.