Cargo cults and existing religions

[diegosimeone]

So I recently discovered this cargo cults phenomenon and it got me...researching.

It's basically some new (weird looking for the western world) religions that formed in the Pacific islands (mostly or totally, not sure yet) after the British and Americans settled naval bases there in the 19th and 20th centuries. For those who want to see how it worked:

Just a few examples here.

Basically these indigenous people have been seeing some armed soldiers parading around and a ship or plane coming in with cargo every couple of weeks or months and when the British and American left, they started building similar constructions and followed those weird traditions they saw and started to expect the return of the mysterious cargo.

Now, while this is very interesting on its own, I was wondering how probable it is that some ancient cargo cult style religion is still around or whether the popular religions are similar in any way. I think there could be a case for Judaism here, but I'm not aware of any others that could fit the bill, where they have been expecting someone to lead them to a kingdom of their own initially and then took the form of a cult and developed into a religion.

 

[JodelDiplom]

Well there are those who say that the Massai of Kenya traditionally wear red clothing because they are the long lost descendants of a Roman legion that was sent to Africa and never returned. Not really a religion or cult but they say it's where some of their traditions come from.

 

[Kovax]

Well there are those who say that the Massai of Kenya traditionally wear red clothing because they are the long lost descendants of a Roman legion that was sent to Africa and never returned. Not really a religion or cult but they say it's where some of their traditions come from.

More likely in my opinion that the Massai are copying distant carried down memories of an Egyptian imitation Legion, rather than a real Roman one, if it isn't just coincidence.

The ancient Judean tribes built their religion around food safety, seals of approval, and similar "purity" concepts. Their settlements are identifiable by the official food seals of approval on jars and other containers. The forecast coming of a Messiah was a later development.

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

More likely in my opinion that the Massai are copying distant carried down memories of an Egyptian imitation Legion, rather than a real Roman one, if it isn't just coincidence.

The ancient Judean tribes built their religion around food safety, seals of approval, and similar "purity" concepts. Their settlements are identifiable by the official food seals of approval on jars and other containers. The forecast coming of a Messiah was a later development.

Very likely yes but boring.

 

[HuzzButt]

As you note there is a case for you Judaism in that regard, well Judaism would be a schismatic sect of a cargo cult. Caodaism is another, whether it's cargo cult or just very absorbent of everything is debatable but regardless it is something else.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

Judaism is an ancestral record that spans roughly six eons, multiple countries, and one phenomenal bloodline.

A Cargo Cult is a generational memory from 50 years ago.

If that palm-frond Douglas C-47 Skytrain sitting on an old airstrip in the South Pacific is still there in another eon, please let me know.

If its the same island Gilligan landed on, please give my best to Mary Anne.

 

[HuzzButt]

Judaism is an ancestral record that spans roughly six eons, multiple countries, and one phenomenal bloodline.
A Cargo Cult is a generational memory from 50 years ago.
If that palm-frond Douglas C-47 Skytrain sitting on an old airstrip in the South Pacific is still there in another eon, please let me know.
If its the same island Gilligan landed on, please give my best to Mary Anne.

Judaism today is but one schismatic part of that phenomenal bloodline, separated from that most ancient and the time current Judaism by the willful incorporation foreign religious vestiges. This doesn't detract from the "value" of Judaism but it is a poignant reminder that religion is never pure.

 

[PMLF]

I think the cargo cults were/are just scams ran by the local rulers/leaders rather than actual religions.

 

[JodelDiplom]

I think the cargo cults all organized religions were/are just scams ran by the local rulers/leaders rather than actual religions.

Fixed that for you

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

Judaism today is but one schismatic part of that phenomenal bloodline, separated from that most ancient and the time current Judaism by the willful incorporation foreign religious vestiges. This doesn't detract from the "value" of Judaism but it is a poignant reminder that religion is never pure.

Faith is a relationship between the individual and God.

Religion is politicized faith.

It is always helpful not to confuse the two.

 

[HuzzButt]

Faith is a relationship between the individual and God.
Religion is politicized faith.
It is always helpful not to confuse the two.

I don't disagree but I fail to see how that has anything to do with my point.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

I don't disagree but I fail to see how that has anything to do with my point.

Elaborating on your point that 'religion is never pure' and providing a reason why.

I have to admit you lost me on your comments on Judaism. I'm not sure if you're alluding to a Jewish Christmas Tree, or the concept of Atheistic Judaism v. Ultra-Orthodoxy.

 

[HuzzButt]

Elaborating on your point that 'religion is never pure' and providing a reason why.
I have to admit you lost me on your comments on Judaism. I'm not sure if you're alluding to a Jewish Christmas Tree, or the concept of Atheistic Judaism v. Ultra-Orthodoxy.

I see. My comment alluded at the inclusion of Medean/Persian religious perceptions into what became normative Judaism.

 

[diegosimeone]

Judaism is an ancestral record that spans roughly six eons, multiple countries, and one phenomenal bloodline.

A Cargo Cult is a generational memory from 50 years ago.

We can see how a cargo cult develops. We cannot go back in time and see how known religions formed. We can guesstimate that violence or political force was involved to spread it, or a collective understanding of what some phenomenons meant with some legends to complete or enhance the tale(in the case of gentile religions). That's about it. It's mostly speculation. But these cargo cults are proof of how a religion can form out of a small detail or a single event that's part of someone else's routine.

Religions that talk about the return of someone could have developed from such a phenomenon that compares to the cargo cult. Doesn't need to be cargo involved. Also, they've been around for 150 years, not just 50. And the people that embraced the cults in the 19th century still follow them.

These are often born through cultural shock. In ancient times, people didn't really know what lied ahead or who lived there so it's more than possible that some remote traders left their mark at some place which has developed into a religion in the process. The fact that a handful of religions consist of the majority of the population leaves less room for these now as with Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism for example are like 80% of the world's population. But there's like 5-6% of the world that have an ethnic or tribal religion. Those could very well have developed in a similar way, unless you're implying that Polynesians are dumb and too gullible whilst older generations couldn't have possibly made the same error ages ago.

I think the cargo cults were/are just scams ran by the local rulers/leaders rather than actual religions.

I think it's the other way around with these. It's not like the leader or ruler said that he witnessed something magical or divine and had to persuade everyone to follow. Everyone was watching these troops march around, everyone saw these mysterious ships or planes dropping things out of nowhere so the only thing that could have triggered this is someone saying that these people were something unnatural and divine. But everyone saw them. Other religions are based on the word of someone, at least that's how they're considered. From Moses to Joseph Smith.

 

[JodelDiplom]

The stories of Quetzalcoatl (?) that the Aztecs and other mesoamericans had prior to the coming of the Spaniards have often been interpreted as mythical memory of an earlier visit by a seafaring hero figure with a European look.

 

[Arilou]

There has been some recent arguments whether or not the "Cargo Cults" were even "real".

 

[PMLF]

The stories of Quetzalcoatl (?) that the Aztecs and other mesoamericans had prior to the coming of the Spaniards have often been interpreted as mythical memory of an earlier visit by a seafaring hero figure with a European look.

Apparently those stories (Quetzalcoatl, Viracocha in Peru, etc.) were made up/reinterpreted after the Spaniards arrived, to justify the conquest of those lands.

Some ufologists love those stories too...

 

[Arilou]

Apparently those stories (Quetzalcoatl, Viracocha in Peru, etc.) were made up/reinterpreted after the Spaniards arrived, to justify the conquest of those lands.

Some ufologists love those stories too...

More like reinterpreted rather than made up, AFAIK.

EDIT: Basically Quetzalcoatl was an existing figure, but the "return" thing was a post-conquest rationalization.

 

[Abdul Goatherd]

Apparently those stories (Quetzalcoatl, Viracocha in Peru, etc.) were made up/reinterpreted after the Spaniards arrived, to justify the conquest of those lands.

Except that's probably not true.

There is good reason to believe the legend of the return of Quetzalcoatl long antedates the Spanish arrival.

 

[PMLF]

Except that's probably not true.

There is good reason to believe the legend of the return of Quetzalcoatl long antedates the Spanish arrival.

The problem is not the myth itself but the part connecting it to Old World visitors, which apparently only started after the Spanish arrival and is apparently only found in Spanish sources.