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Changes to QE Aircraft Carrier?

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JanH said:
No, we're not changing the scenarios we have. Obviously later scenarios could be made which showed it as a VTOL carrier.

If these rumors are true, the RN carrier fleet will not be worth half of what it could be. :(
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Ahh that is shame if they are changed although if it means alot of work then it probably not worth it anyway.

Well as Brit I'd rather have the carriers sooner rather than later. F-35C maybe a more capable aircraft but, it would mean potentially RN only having one capable carrier and other delayed by 7 years vs two VTOL carriers earlier.
 
The will change it back in a few years anyway since the F-35B is "on probation".
It might get cancelled alltogether

Edit: Just read it isn't on probation anymore but most landings will be conventional in order to reduce airframe stress.:blink::sad::unsure:
This whole program is a colossal facepalm.
 
I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I really adore the STOVL configuration of the carriers and the F-35B... but on the other hand (and partially after playing around with F-35Bs and Cs in NWAC :p) the C variant does sound much more effective, and it'd allow us a greater degree of compatibility with the US Navy.

Ohwell. Screw it, it's unlikely to matter that much anyway, there'll always be issues with the project regardless of which equipment we choose.
 
JanH said:
If these rumors are true, the RN carrier fleet will not be worth half of what it could be. :(
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Yeah, not to mention locking us into a single aircraft. If we went CATOBAR we could use any navalised aircraft, including proper AWACS (as in NWAC).

Add that to the "Why the fuck did we sell the Harriers, if we're sticking with STOVL?" and you've got the makings of an apocalyptic level screw up.
 
Personally I think the British government should disband its military and turn control over to syndicates of trade unions and workers' councils to create a democratically planned economy.
 
One of the carriers was to have a CATOBAR system installed (the HMS Prince of Wales), one without (the HMS Queen Elizabeth). at least that was the latest info, which as this shows is up in the air when clowns are in charge.

this article doesnt seem to confirm either way if that plan has been changed. just that they are gonna now buy the F-35B. also its the mail, so gonna wait for confirmation from other sources, that will no doubt have better info.
 
Still haven't seen it from a more reputable source. I can't imagine the thought process that led to this if its true however; not only will this limit interoperability with the US and French severely, it limits our options for other aircraft if we wanted them (E-2? Again, both US and France use it...), AND the British government is liable to smacked with paying for several of the CATOBAR components anyway, including large parts of EMALS, considering theyve already been ordered.

Way to go. :sad:

EDIT: Well, apparently the Financial Times article says its only a possibility, but a highly likely one. Heres hoping someone finds a braincell before its too late...
 
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mightygaz said:
One of the carriers was to have a CATOBAR system installed (the HMS Prince of Wales), one without (the HMS Queen Elizabeth). at least that was the latest info, which as this shows is up in the air when clowns are in charge.

this article doesnt seem to confirm either way if that plan has been changed. just that they are gonna now buy the F-35B. also its the mail, so gonna wait for confirmation from other sources, that will no doubt have better info.
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Both were to have EMALS and AAG installed by 2022. QE on first refit.

Elouda said:
Still haven't seen it from a more reputable source. I can't imagine the thought process that led to this if its true however; not only will this limit interoperability with the US and French severely, it limits our options for other aircraft if we wanted them (E-2? Again, both US and France use it...), AND the British government is liable to smacked with paying for several of the CATOBAR components anyway, including large parts of EMALS, considering theyve already been ordered.

Way to go. :sad:

EDIT: Well, apparently the Financial Times article says its only a possibility, but a highly likely one. Heres hoping someone finds a braincell before its too late...
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Contrary to what people read in some news outlets and are taking as gospel (all articles were re-wordings of the Times article), nothing official has been announced and there is still no reason to take that article seriously given the terrible track record the papers have had with predicting events relating to the carriers. As far as we're concerned the plan is the F-35C until an official announcement changes that.
 
There is a huge amount of politics going on within the MoD, the RN and the RAF about what will eventually be procured and although it is easy to blame Cameron et al, the reality is he's probably just being given lots of bad, conflicting advice. Only one thing is certain however - what the RN gets won't be value for money or be as capable as it could have been...but then that is the same with all military procurement nowadays! :p
 
As usual, it is almost forms of lobby's with self vested interests that are playing a case.
The American's stepped in to say "Your figures are utter bullshit with regards to converting your two carriers - who the hell is making up this crap" (but in more polite terms obviously) - pointing out that the real cost of conversion would be under half what the Government is being told it will be. So who is accurate with the figures?

It is utter insanity and ridiculous how these things go... there was a costing done, and within a year it supposedly triples. How? What is down to this? Either incompetence or smoke and mirrors for some reason.
 
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As people have said the F35 C has much better capability over the F35 B. It appears that the EMALS is already payed for so why not go ahead with it. The only thing influencing the government is the short impacts due to the the financial cost of the carriers and their ability to deployed sooner. The QE (first carrier) could be used as helicopter carrier (although limiting its capability) in conjunction with the Prince of Wales (second carrier) as a fully capable strike carrier as a strike force for the time being. This would be more deadly than having two F35 B carriers of limited capability. The UK could also potentially use Super Hornets for training. Do we risk leaving ourselves undefended/incapable of projecting force in the next 5 years or take the gamble and be capable of power projection only seconded by the USA navy.
 
At least one QE will have the CATOBAR system installed. The debate is what will happen to the other carrier.

I'd read that the Navy originally intended to operate the Harrier fleet off of the new QE class for a few years, hence the lack of CATOBAR, but since they were withdrawn the design needs changed.

I would be surprised if the Navy ordered the F-35B rather than the C given the greater range of the C and the fact that the C is expected to have a 25% lower lifetime cost. Equally I would not be surprised if we end up with both.
 
Jamie Morgon said:
At least one QE will have the CATOBAR system installed. The debate is what will happen to the other carrier.

I'd read that the Navy originally intended to operate the Harrier fleet off of the new QE class for a few years, hence the lack of CATOBAR, but since they were withdrawn the design needs changed.

I would be surprised if the Navy ordered the F-35B rather than the C given the greater range of the C and the fact that the C is expected to have a 25% lower lifetime cost. Equally I would not be surprised if we end up with both.
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Having both the F-35C and the F-35B would be ideal (forget the cost for a moment). The only reason the QE carriers had a ramp was because they wanted extra combat weight for the F-35B. However purchasing both would make RN very capable. This is because like the US navy, the RN also has helicopter/landing ships that have quite large flight decks. IF the F-35B was to be used it should be on HMS Ocean and other ships of similar capability. The F-35B could also operate (I assume) off the first QE carrier that will not have CATOBAR specification to start with, whilst the other carrier uses Super Hornets and then UK place large order for F35 C when both carriers have CATOBAR specification. The fact that the UK is only intending to have 6 F35 C on one carrier at a time in 2020 is pathetic anyway, you might as well have just keep HMS Ocean with the old GR9's if you knew that would be the case. Very poor planning by this government and the government before.
 
bigaddygun said:
HMS Ocean with the old GR9's if you knew that would be the case. Very poor planning by this government and the government before.
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Illustrious would likely be the better bet for any B's as Ocean is unable to operate them.
 
bigaddygun said:
That is a shame. Illustrious will soon be scrapped as well.
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She will be withdrawn from service in 2014 (after 32 years service, which is quite a lot for a ship of her type). It's not a shame that Illustrious is being scrapped, it's a shame that we're only likely to get two flat-tops post the scrapping. The MoD need to look into new LHD's after Ocean bows out in 2018.
 
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