Changing Default Succession

[Dakilla TM]

Is there a way to change the default succession from absolute cognatic to agnatic cognatic? I'm looking into the game files within the succession file. I'm hoping to modify it to where at the start of the game, everyone starts with agnatic cognatic instead, if it's even possible.

 

[Ictivion]

I could be wrong, honestly have no time to test it, but as I recall the trick to changing it is to go into the succession_laws.txt file (it's in common/laws). Near the bottom is where the gender laws are. "true_cognatic" is absolute cognatic, while "cognatic" is the 'usual' Agnatic-Cognatic.

Basically, you could change it so that the "default_selection" field's factor is 0, which would mean no one would pick it. Better yet, I think you can just set default = no and get the same effect.

Since I think the only ones who have a factor 0 to Agnatic-Cognatic are the ones who default to Absolute Agnatic or Absolute Enatic, it shouldn't cause an issue. If it does, try removing the whole modifier bit within cognatic_succession.

 

[Dakilla TM]

That actually worked! Thanks!

 

[Ictivion]

Thought I might as well make a convenient little mod for anyone else dropping in here to handle it semi-automatically. Now when starting a new game, there will be an option after Ideal Masters called Default Succession, which has 3 settings: Cognatic (Default), Agnatic-Cognatic, and Agnatic. Basically, if you choose Cognatic, nothing changes. If you choose either of the other two, then no one will PICK Cognatic as their DEFAULT succession, and those who were previously locked out of them as default will instead will opt for Agnatic or Agnatic-Cognatic, depending on which one you chose.

I capitalized PICK and DEFAULT because it's important to keep in mind the following:
DEFAULT: This mod does not in any way alter the conditions of actually setting a succession law. The AI and player can as much as they ever could switch to Absolute Cognatic, they just don't generally (see why below) start as Absolute Cognatic.
PICK: See, not all titles get assigned Absolute Cognatic based on the default calculations. Some titles such as the Dunmer Great Houses and a few (but not all) titles in the Summerset Isles, including the Kingdom title are set in the history files themselves to be Absolute Cognatic.

I could go through every single title's history file and remove the line setting it to Absolute Cognatic, but there's 3 reasons I won't:
1) I'm not familiar enough with the mod to know the full reasoning why those titles in particular are specifically set to be Absolute Cognatic, whether it's a hold-over from earlier versions or a safeguard for special triggers/events/whatever.
2) I don't really want to mess around overwriting more than I need to. Only file I overwrote in this mod is succession_laws.txt, and that by itself might cause issues the moment the devs change that file in a future version, as my mod would ignore those changes. (I did leave comments in every place I changed the file though, so if anyone wants to update it, the logic should be easily discernible.)
3) Ain't Nobody Got Time For That.

As far as I tested, it works as advertised above with the DEFAULT and PICK caveats. If there's an issue I might update it but the availability of my time is all over the place at the moment.

 

[Dakilla TM]

Thanks for this sub mod! It works!

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Any chance something could be made to change counts and dukes being restricted from having gavelkind succession, or at least point me in the direction for everything I'd need to change to re-enable gavelkind and the option to request it from a vassal in the game files for an existing game?

 

[Ictivion]

Turns out, the "Demand Gavelkind" decision wasn't touched at all, only the potential for getting Gavelkind itself. Made a bit of a tweak which I'll attach here. (This mod includes the previous I posted, because both deal with Succession tweaks.)

Note that once again, you'll be able to set your gavelkind preference at game start. There's once again 3 options: "Kings and above" (The default that doesn't change anything), "Dukes and Above" which allows Dukes to take Gavelkind, and "Counts and Above" which allows Counts to take Gavelkind. This way you can move either back to vanilla (Well not barons, but maybe I'll add that it later, not sure if they have gavelkind in vanilla, never checked), or ensure that small, growing realms don't shatter until they at least attain Duke tier.

In case you want to use this with a previous save, you could try the following:

Step 1) Save your game without compression (Untick the box next to naming the save, this can't be done on Ironman)
Step 2) Find your save file and open it with a text editor. Notepad++ always recommended
Step 3) Near the top of the save file, probably starting at line 23, you'll see the Game Rules listed out. Add one (just one!) of the following:
For Dukes and above:
ek_gavelkind="gavel_duke"
For Counts and above:
ek_gavelkind="gavel_count"
Step 4) Save the changes and play the game, shattering your vassals, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

If you want, you can also add in ek_gavelkind="gavel_default" which is the Kings and above option, but I'm pretty sure the engine assumes that by default if nothing is specified so it shouldn't do much if you do.

You could also add in the game rules for the Agnatic-Cognatic portion, but it wouldn't do anything, as that mod only changes the chances of countries picking those succession types upon game start, so it shouldn't affect anything in an ongoing game.

EDIT: And typically, I forgot to add the file. Here we go.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Thanks for the help. I didn't realize all that needed to be changed was the succession files themselves, otherwise I would probably have done it myself sooner. Unfortunately I can't seem to get your mod to work, nothing is coming up on the game rules either on my loaded game or when I start an entirely new game.

Then when I tried to mod it myself, I can't see anything in the old succession law that forbids gavelkind for dukes and counts, where is that? I can't see any difference in the potential block for gavelkind between your version and the mod's default version other than the extra rule block. There isn't even anything that I can see different between the vanilla law and the EK law. What the heck did the devs do to disable gavelkind in the first place?

 

[ArtayOfficial]

Then when I tried to mod it myself, I can't see anything in the old succession law that forbids gavelkind for dukes and counts, where is that? I can't see any difference in the potential block for gavelkind between your version and the mod's default version other than the extra rule block. There isn't even anything that I can see different between the vanilla law and the EK law. What the heck did the devs do to disable gavelkind in the first place?

First line in potential of gavelkind succession:

        potential = {
            higher_tier_than = DUKE

 

[Ictivion]

Unfortunately I can't seem to get your mod to work, nothing is coming up on the game rules either on my loaded game or when I start an entirely new game.

That's strange. The solution is infact what AlanerPolska wrote, basically what I did was add 2 versions dependant on selected Game Rules that allow for Counts and Dukes.
You could get the same effect by going into common/laws/succession_laws.txt and changing or removing the "higher_tier_than = DUKE" statement from under gavelkind and elective_gavelkind. (My version basically replaced it with "higher_tier_than = COUNT" and "= BARON" respectively.)

Still it's quite strange that not even the rules show up. The succession laws might not get overwritten if the mod's name is wrong in the dependencies of my .mod file, but the game rules aren't overwriting anything. Are you sure you put the ElderKingsSuccession.mod file and the ElderKingsSuccession folder in your mod folder properly, and haven't tried to merge my mod's content with the core mod or something?
Just re-downloaded my mod from here, and it appears to be working for me.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

First line in potential of gavelkind succession:

        potential = {
            higher_tier_than = DUKE

That line doesn't exist in my succession law file:

    succ_gavelkind = {
        oldest_child_opinion = -5
        child_opinion = 15
        dynasty_opinion = 5
        vassal_opinion = 5
  
        potential = {
            holder_scope = {
                OR = {
                    independent = yes
                    NOT = {
                        any_liege = {
                            holy_order = yes
                        }
                    }
                }
                is_merchant_republic = no
                is_patrician = no
                NOT = { government = orsimer_government }
                NOT = { government = confederacy_government }
                NOT = { government = matriarchy_government }
                NOT = { government = imperial_commune_government }
                NOT = { government = reformed_imperial_commune_government }
                NOT = { culture = orsimer }
                NOT = { culture = kamal }
                NOT = { culture = tsaesci }
                NOT = { culture = tangmo }
                NOT = { AND = { has_landed_title = d_riddle trait = mane } }
                OR = {
                    independent = yes
                    NOT = {
                        any_demesne_title = {
                            is_vice_royalty = yes
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
            OR = {
                is_landless_type_title = no
                is_tribal_type_title = yes
                temporary = yes
            }
          
            rebel = no
          
            OR = {
                holder_scope = { is_feudal = yes }
                holder_scope = { is_tribal = yes }
            }
            is_primary_type_title = no
            NOT = { holder_scope = { government = confucian_bureaucracy } }
        }

That's strange. The solution is infact what AlanerPolska wrote, basically what I did was add 2 versions dependant on selected Game Rules that allow for Counts and Dukes.
You could get the same effect by going into common/laws/succession_laws.txt and changing or removing the "higher_tier_than = DUKE" statement from under gavelkind and elective_gavelkind. (My version basically replaced it with "higher_tier_than = COUNT" and "= BARON" respectively.)

Still it's quite strange that not even the rules show up. The succession laws might not get overwritten if the mod's name is wrong in the dependencies of my .mod file, but the game rules aren't overwriting anything. Are you sure you put the ElderKingsSuccession.mod file and the ElderKingsSuccession folder in your mod folder properly, and haven't tried to merge my mod's content with the core mod or something?
Just re-downloaded my mod from here, and it appears to be working for me.

I've installed mods just fine before. Did you make this mod for the SVN instead of the main release? That might be why things didn't work.

 

[Ictivion]

I've made it for both, though I only tested it on my version of the SVN. I just checked my version of ek21 (The Steam Version) and my succ_gavelkind looks like this:

succ_gavelkind = {
        oldest_child_opinion = -5
        child_opinion = 15
        dynasty_opinion = 5
        vassal_opinion = 5
   
        potential = {
            higher_tier_than = DUKE
            holder_scope = {
                OR = {
                    independent = yes
                    NOT = {
                        any_liege = {
                            holy_order = yes
                        }
                    }
                }
                is_merchant_republic = no
                is_patrician = no
                NOT = { government = orsimer_government }
                NOT = { government = confederacy_government }
                NOT = { government = matriarchy_government }
                NOT = { government = imperial_commune_government }
                NOT = { government = reformed_imperial_commune_government }
                NOT = { culture = orsimer }
                NOT = { culture = kamal }
                NOT = { culture = tsaesci }
                NOT = { culture = tangmo }
                NOT = { AND = { has_landed_title = d_riddle trait = mane } }
                OR = {
                    independent = yes
                    NOT = {
                        any_demesne_title = {
                            is_vice_royalty = yes
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
            OR = {
                is_landless_type_title = no
                is_tribal_type_title = yes
                temporary = yes
            }
           
            rebel = no
           
            OR = {
                holder_scope = { is_feudal = yes }
                holder_scope = { is_tribal = yes }
            }
            is_primary_type_title = no
            NOT = { holder_scope = { government = confucian_bureaucracy } }
        }
        allow = {
            holder_scope = {
                show_scope_change = no
                in_revolt = no
            }
            conditional_tooltip = {
                trigger = {
                    has_dlc = "Conclave"
                }
                custom_tooltip = {
                    text = forced_elective_tt
                    hidden_tooltip = {
                        NAND = {
                            has_law = succession_voting_power_1
                            has_law = succ_feudal_elective
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
        }
        effect = {
            succession = gavelkind
        }
        revoke_allowed = {
            always = no
        }          
    }

Something seems really funky here. Especially because if that line is not there, I've no idea why you couldn't use Gavelkind.

Are you using any other submods? If not, you should be able to switch to Gavelkind yourself, as long as you're not any of the cultures or governments listed in that potential. Or is the issue that you just can't demand it, because then I'd ask you to look in the decisions folder, and see if you have "rip_various_decisions.txt", and within in "demand_gavelkind".
You might need to enable Reaper's Due too for that decision to be available, as it is a pre-requisite of it.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I was looking at an older version of the mod by accident last night, so that's why my law file was wrong. Still don't know why your mod didn't work, but I can just make the change myself now. I think I'm actually going to make independent counts and dukes only use primogenature, but allow vassal ones to use gavelkind for now.

 

[Dakilla TM]

I was looking at an older version of the mod by accident last night, so that's why my law file was wrong. Still don't know why your mod didn't work, but I can just make the change myself now. I think I'm actually going to make independent counts and dukes only use primogenature, but allow vassal ones to use gavelkind for now.

Any updates on this idea? I would try to help but I haven't modded much outside of cultures and landed titles.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Any updates on this idea? I would try to help but I haven't modded much outside of cultures and landed titles.

I already did it shortly after making my post. I didn't mess around with game rules, so I just put the conditions straight into the law file for what I wanted.

      succ_gavelkind = {
        oldest_child_opinion = -5
        child_opinion = 15
        dynasty_opinion = 5
        vassal_opinion = 5
  
        potential = {
            OR = {
                higher_tier_than = DUKE
                holder_scope = {
                    independent = no
                }
            }
         ...

 

[King Tony I]

Turns out, the "Demand Gavelkind" decision wasn't touched at all, only the potential for getting Gavelkind itself. Made a bit of a tweak which I'll attach here. (This mod includes the previous I posted, because both deal with Succession tweaks.)

Note that once again, you'll be able to set your gavelkind preference at game start. There's once again 3 options: "Kings and above" (The default that doesn't change anything), "Dukes and Above" which allows Dukes to take Gavelkind, and "Counts and Above" which allows Counts to take Gavelkind. This way you can move either back to vanilla (Well not barons, but maybe I'll add that it later, not sure if they have gavelkind in vanilla, never checked), or ensure that small, growing realms don't shatter until they at least attain Duke tier.

In case you want to use this with a previous save, you could try the following:

Step 1) Save your game without compression (Untick the box next to naming the save, this can't be done on Ironman)
Step 2) Find your save file and open it with a text editor. Notepad++ always recommended
Step 3) Near the top of the save file, probably starting at line 23, you'll see the Game Rules listed out. Add one (just one!) of the following:
For Dukes and above:
ek_gavelkind="gavel_duke"
For Counts and above:
ek_gavelkind="gavel_count"
Step 4) Save the changes and play the game, shattering your vassals, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

If you want, you can also add in ek_gavelkind="gavel_default" which is the Kings and above option, but I'm pretty sure the engine assumes that by default if nothing is specified so it shouldn't do much if you do.

You could also add in the game rules for the Agnatic-Cognatic portion, but it wouldn't do anything, as that mod only changes the chances of countries picking those succession types upon game start, so it shouldn't affect anything in an ongoing game.

EDIT: And typically, I forgot to add the file. Here we go.

is this working? i dont see the game rule

 

[Ictivion]

is this working? i dont see the game rule

Just to make triple sure, I once again fully updated my SVN (was originally tested on the Steam release, so that should work too), re-downloaded it from the post you quoted, and tried to run the game.
The game rules show up, they are at the very bottom of the game rule window. (It can be scrolled, best advice I can give, assuming the installation is correct.)

For the sake of absolute clarity, could you make sure that your mod folder (Which is located at C:/Users/[Your User Name]/Documents/Paradox Interactive/Crusader Kings II/mod) includes the following:

FOLDER: ElderKings (Or whatever you call the Elder Kings folder in your installation, such as ek021 for the Steam release)
FOLDER: ElderKingsSuccession (Which is in the zip)
FILE: ESM.mod (Or ek021.mod.mod in the case of Steam release)
FILE: ElderKingsSuccession.mod

If those are all there, then I'm going to need someone else to come up with ideas because I have no idea how at the very least the rules shouldn't show up as you start a game, provided "Elder Kings Change Default Succession" is tagged in the launcher. Even if you launch it with vanilla, or HIP, or CK2+ or Lux Invicta or whatever have you, the game rules should show up (even if not work as intended) because the file that makes them show up doesn't overwrite anything, vanilla or otherwise, and so cannot be overwritten by anything else, unless some other mod happens to have an "ek_def_succession.txt" in their common/game_rules folder, which I find very unlikely, if Elder Kings itself doesn't have it.

 

[King Tony I]

Just to make triple sure, I once again fully updated my SVN (was originally tested on the Steam release, so that should work too), re-downloaded it from the post you quoted, and tried to run the game.
The game rules show up, they are at the very bottom of the game rule window. (It can be scrolled, best advice I can give, assuming the installation is correct.)

For the sake of absolute clarity, could you make sure that your mod folder (Which is located at C:/Users/[Your User Name]/Documents/Paradox Interactive/Crusader Kings II/mod) includes the following:

FOLDER: ElderKings (Or whatever you call the Elder Kings folder in your installation, such as ek021 for the Steam release)
FOLDER: ElderKingsSuccession (Which is in the zip)
FILE: ESM.mod (Or ek021.mod.mod in the case of Steam release)
FILE: ElderKingsSuccession.mod

If those are all there, then I'm going to need someone else to come up with ideas because I have no idea how at the very least the rules shouldn't show up as you start a game, provided "Elder Kings Change Default Succession" is tagged in the launcher. Even if you launch it with vanilla, or HIP, or CK2+ or Lux Invicta or whatever have you, the game rules should show up (even if not work as intended) because the file that makes them show up doesn't overwrite anything, vanilla or otherwise, and so cannot be overwritten by anything else, unless some other mod happens to have an "ek_def_succession.txt" in their common/game_rules folder, which I find very unlikely, if Elder Kings itself doesn't have it.

All files are in the mod folder and it doesnt work

 

[Ictivion]

Then I've honestly no idea what's happening, I'm sorry. If any of the devs who probably have far more experience with modding than I can take a look at it and say why it works for some people like Dakilla, and not for others, I'd appreciate it, but otherwise I've no idea what I can do if the game rules don't even show up while the mod is active.

 

[King Tony I]

Then I've honestly no idea what's happening, I'm sorry. If any of the devs who probably have far more experience with modding than I can take a look at it and say why it works for some people like Dakilla, and not for others, I'd appreciate it, but otherwise I've no idea what I can do if the game rules don't even show up while the mod is active.

dont worry, i put the files directly in the elder kings folder and it works, for me is enough


thanks