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Chill 2 - now more relaxed than ever

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A few comments :p
Aladar said:
Players:

1. Aladar (GM probably me, unless someone else wants to)
Venice

2. Sander
Flandern/NL

3. Trash
OE

4. Forzaa (Host & Editor)
Russia

5. Patoche
Probably Sweden, but he has first dips on the rest too

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

Nations without a player:

England, France, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Denmark, BB, Austria
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you have 5 "open slots" yet 7 countries still open, and Venice (of all places :p) is available.

Rules:

Leaders and Randomizing
+ Historical leaders stay.
+ Historical monarchs stay.
+ Random land-naval leaders each session via RNG Based on Combat losses.
+ Choice to get a chance where random leaders are, explorers/conquistadors after 1600.
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depends on what leader generator I get my hands on and understand :p (or someone else, but anyway)

-no switching Catholic>CRC>Catholic just for morale purposses during wars. So, if you go CRC, stay that till the event cancells it.

-If you want to dow a vassal nation always dow the overlord.
(If the Vassal is a player himself, this rule doesn't apply)
(If the Vassal declares war, a human defender need not declare war upon the overlord)

- If you are at war with a vassal nation, you may not conclude a peace deal resulting in loss of territory by the vassal, or annexation of the vassal, until at least one year from the start of the war, or earlier with consent of the overlord.

-We always play with newest beta.

-If the dutch spawn they will get 1000d, 20 warships and 20000 troops, so they can fight for independance within 10 years.

-Flaming, harrasing or Insulting will be considered non chill and you will be banned from the game

-Persian, Han, Cantonese and Japanese culture Unavailable till 1700.
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all sound ok

-If you conquer a Non-European Province that doesn't have its base culture, culture will revert to your own after nationalism, no matter the size of the colony.
Click to expand...
And I am not going to LOOK for them, so you'll have to report them yourself :p

-Galleys are only allowed in Europe.
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we need a definition of "Europe" :p

-No maptrading with AI/Humans, BUT between session mapchanging of some parts is allowed. ID's Given to GM. (Only 10 Sea Provinces/Normal provinces Taken per player) Btw: Provs need to be adjencent, no provs out of the blue !
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given the trouble with capturing capitals and getting maps (through real or fake war) - I feel this needs some more discussion

- CB between all player countries per default/Can be edited away by war or mutual agreements.

-CBShields Can be demanded/negotiated.
Click to expand...

I think this needs some polishing (from experiences in Chill 1, for example in regards to a Spanish-Venetian core deal, involving cores on Genoa, a Flandrian ally)


-Alliance rules:

England, France & Spain can only have 2 players in alliance - all other nations 3 players.
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Better have an "alliance weight limit" with ENG, FRA, SPA (and TUR, RUS?) weighing as 1, and others as 0.5 (otherwise the 2 per alliance will just mean ENG-FRA, ENG-SPA or SPA-FRA will ally to "maximise effect" )

-If you are vassalised, be that via event or war. You are forced to stay so in 20 years/Or on other agreed terms.

-EVERY attacking nation (this includes the ones joining the original DoWer through alliance) MUST cancel MA through attacked countries.
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sounds good. - I would specify this as all ATTACKING countries in the original DoW have to cancel MA through all original defensive countries, every joining EITHER side lateron (being invited) should cancel MA through all parties of the other alliance.


-Only 3 Units per Peace between alliances.
If you have a CB on demanded province: 0,5
Other European province: 1
CoT: 2
The rest of the world: 0
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I've always felt this should just be handled in game (be that diplomacy, outside intervention or something else), not through some artificial rule.

-Different peace deals (and diplomatical deals generally) must be honored (for example force-open COTs for 20 years, Demilitarization of certain area etc, etc...)
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I think the country intending to break such a deal needs to send an INSULT to all countries involved, and remove other obstacles to DoW (alliance, MA etc) - it should not be impossible to break a deal, but the one being "betrayed" should not suffer for trying to enforce it)


[these are comments for DISCUSSION]

-----

and a note as "senior editor":

in principle, ANY edit to the save is possible, with a few demands ofcourse - it is the responsibility of the person requesting the edit to ensure these are met:

1) All sides to a deal must agree.
2) The edit must be made public through the thread.
3) Relevant information must be sent to me via ICQ, before a deadline (to be determined)
4) "Special" edits [ TAG change and the like] must be agreed to by the GM and senior editor (who may decide to have the decision made in thread by vote)

* Flavor edits (name change for colonies comes to mind) are possible, if you really feel the need *
 
Just to clarify why I think it would be atleast worth a try to play without England.

In the games I have played recently, all England does is trade and colonise, and not bother the continent until she is essentially completely safe on her island. At that point, she can bother whoever she wants, at will.

I hope that, with England not played, we will see a little more dynamics on the continent when people don't always have to look at England for the go ahead etc.
 
Sadly, the forums were down all weekend, so I was unable to check the list pof players, do a "poll" on leadergeneration etc. etc.
I have used the following settings to generate leaders (with Tonio's leader generator)

Code: 
Maneuver	1-5	avg 3
Fire		1-5	avg 3
Shock		1-5	avg 3
Siege		0-4	avg 1
Lifespan	10-40	avg 20
The maximum difference between Maneuver and Fire or Shock is 3.
The maximum difference between Fire and Shock is 2.

Random leaders will be marked with a "+" and may have monarch rank.
Rank depends on Maneuver, Fire and Shock values.
The leaders will appear over a 20 year period.

Everyone gets at least 1 general, and at most 4, average 3.
Everyone gets at least 0 admirals, and at most 3, average 2.
No Explorers or Conquistadors were generated.

this resulted in the following:
Code: 
Average move: 2.8125
Average fire: 2.91666666666667
Average shock: 2.70833333333333
Average siege: 0.870967741935484
Average without siege: 2.8125
Generals: 31 / 3.1
Admirals: 17 / 1.7
Explorers: / 0
Conquistadors: / 0
 
To clarify: Burgundy will most likely be transformed into HOL or FLA on a later date (unless Sander doesn't want to, ofcourse), details yet to be determined, likely to be put to vote.
 
Aladar said:
Settings in the campaign are all on, only Less HRE minors off.

Ohh, and Venice hasn't got cores on the entire catholic world, surely this is a flaw :rolleyes:

If OE is AI....well, i think you will have to accept AI control for the time being.
(darn can't remember the quote from Star Wars)
Click to expand...

- that's how I made the savefile (hey, needed to add leaders and cores on capitals :p)

- you're right, I think I also forgot to move them to one TP only in the Carribean :D

- sent his ICQ# your way
 
A "somewhat" dissapointing showup, therefore, I am proposing the following rule concerning (not) showing up:

present, or found a sub for yourself: GOOD

Not present, warned GM (ICQ or thread) more than 24 hours beforehand: country is subbed, or AIed with reasonable* repairs applied afterwards

Not present, no warning, or less than 24 hours beforehand: country may be subbed or AIed, in case it is subbed, a penalty of 2% inflation is added, no repairs

With less than 8 people out of 10 showing up (ie. 8 is the minimum) the session is CANCELLED. Those who gave early warning will get a 100 ducat fine (or 1% inflation), those who did not (or late) get an extra 3% (for a total of 5%)

Being LATE means AIed for the time you are not there, or subbed if you are lucky, if the session is cancelled in the meantime (because you would be #8), you get 100 ducats or 1% inflation.

Penalties may be withdrawn/lessened if you have a GOOD reason.

*: player "proposes" edits GM/editor decide whether they are reasonable (so back up your claims)
-----

comments welcome
 
devil said:
Ehm so he has been online on the forum, but not bothered to send a ICQ, PM nor post a message here... Very interresting, sounds like a good dedicated player ;)
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ofcourse, he could've had an accident on Saturday, for example.

Innocent until proven guilty etc. etc. :rolleyes:
 
Jimbo_lehero said:
Hello,

Can you explain me in detail this rule :

If you conquer a Non-European Province that doesn't have its base culture, culture will revert to your own after nationalism, no matter the size of the colony.
Click to expand...

All provinces have a base culture, for example, León is Iberian, Cuzco is Andean.

The ACTUAL culture can change through the following mechanisms:

1) colonisation - the province takes the culture of the colonist sent.
2) conversion - A pagan province converted with a missionary will also change culture to the culture of the converting nation
3) A province that doesn't have it's base culture, is outside of Europe, and doesn't have more than 5000 population, will change to the culture of the owning nation if it has no nationalism. (if, for example, England captures 1200 subject Havana, that has been colonised by Spain (and thus has Iberian culture) it will become anglosaxon after 30 years)

This rule is an expansion of #3 - so if some country colonises or converts(from paganism) a province, making it the culture of the country, it will get your culture after you take it, REGARDLESS OF SIZE.
 
Aladar said:
Actually we all have aboriginal culture, and all new provinses get this culture. It makes it easier to conquer the americas from England & Spain later :)
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you put in the rule, I didn't :p
I merely explained what the rule meant, I said nothing about it's use :rolleyes:
 
Aladar said:
Austria has no alliances, i'm rather sure this needs an edit. Last i check we has allied to atleast Hungary and Bohemia. He did drop in the last minutes, so i think something must have happend.
Click to expand...

it does, according to the save.. so the problem is on the stat site.
 
Aladar said:
Forzaa, are we going back to the old version (TZBN) since your adj-file didn't work?
Click to expand...

TZBV, I believe - but whatever the "stock" patch is.. the odd thing is it DID work in SP :wacko:
 
* leaders have been generated (same settings as last time)
* 100 ducats transferred from VEN to TUR because of a peacedeal
* Cores added, for everyone, on Warsaw (Polish capital) and cores added for Poland to all other capitals.

I believe I didn't get any more requests... so if you did send me a request, resend :)
 
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