Nabukodonosor said:He is uber hog. His tasks are uber also, but his whining ability outclasses all of that.(Info from Hive)
If he is so uber, I look forward to the time when Russia and English border meet around Vienna
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If he is so uber, I look forward to the time when Russia and English border meet around Vienna
Sable_Rose said:If you guys reconsider going 11 to try for today, just let me know here.
Well I'm quite optimistic about my connection, so just be there at 19 CEST. We might need a sub or else we can probably still fit you in Brandenburg and see how it goes. If we experience too much lag however you will be the first we'll ask to drop, understand that
fnuco told me he cant play probably today, because of his conenction in romania (he is studying in italy)...so just send a message at 19 cet or bit later and ask wheter we need a sub or not
I have lost badly by my own mistakes, and don't fancy playing a downhill slope country until England has taken all of France. Even if one should stay in games as promised it takes too much precious free time to consider in this case. Sorry. It's still a fresh campaign, and you better find a new player instead.
Regarding playing this campaign in MP, the balance between France and England is precious, and should England tip the scales by winning the first war, with the second war and the Black Prince it's done for.
Regarding playing this campaign in MP, the balance between France and England is precious, and should England tip the scales by winning the first war, with the second war and the Black Prince it's done for.
In order to have a playable France, whom i clearly stripped to hard prior to gamestart, France will be edited all provinses of Provance, Bourbonnais and Auvergne + 200d
Nor,
You did fine. Played it well. France did have the advantage (at least after Edward was killed by the AI), but it was a clumsy advantage to use. You had hundreds of thousands of AI armies swarming all over France, but you couldn't exactly give them orders.
Your only real mistake, from what I could see, was trying to take provinces from Guyenne and marching all over central France instead of massing under your 5 shock and keeping me at bay in northern France. You could've won it fairly handily if you had.
But other than that, you did fine. And while I understand your quitting, I do hope you reconsider and continue on.
All,
It's come to my attention that Aladar intends to boost France artifically with edits. I assume this means, if nothing else, incorporating provinces into it.
I have to say, if this is a serious proposal it really ruins the game. Not just for me, not just for the French player, but for everybody, because it sets the precedent that if you lose, even if you were on equal terms (or superior terms, as the case was here), your country will be salvaged and given yet another chance by the divine intervention of the GM.
It seems to me that if you didn't want the HYW to go to the English, if you didn't even want there to be the possibility, you should've started in 1492 or 1520, not 1337. And you definitely shouldn't have given England to me, or to any other aggressive player (and it's well-established in the community that I am). Because here's the situation, as Nor says:
1. The first phase of the HYW is the most important. France can afford to lose it (although perhaps not as badly as it did) but England can't, because its vassals will be dismembered and it'll lose any foothold on the continent.
2. England and France cannot coexist in France except in a state of perpetual war, unless they determine their borders around the Atlantic, and that situation is still very dangerous for England.
3. England has only one opportunity, with many phases throughout the 14th and early 15th centuries, to win the HYW.
I had no choice but to either win a decisive victory (more and more decisive the more inflation I took) or to gain an across the board white peace, leaving my vassals intact. As you all know, I offered that. More than once, in fact (I believe there were three seperate offers, over a number of years). Whether it was in Nor's best interests to peace out at those moments or not we'llnever know, as he lost and a WP then certainly would've been better than that.
Now we're in this situation... England is not gamebreaking and won't be even if it unites France, because of the aforementioned logistical problems, the probable entry into France by Austria and Venice and Aragon, the defficit of good leaders throughout the late 15th and certainly 16th centuries (Spain with Farnesse will decimate English France; and el Gran Capitan won't do so badly either), etc. We have ample evidence of this in past 1419 games (one of which France was human, as now, although I can say, having beating a France in a GC, it's much easier with Henry and Bedford). So there's no support whatsoever that "if France falls so too falls the game."
Moreover, I told Aladar explicitly that, without a sufficient number of cores to race France in DOWs, force-vassalizations, province-taking, etc., as Hive had intended, I would have to beat the French so badly they couldn't stop me from taking it a little more slowly. I don't see why I ought to be punished for something that was perfectly foreseable. And France can still get lucky.
All of that aside, though, the most important objection here is simply that England won fair and square against a France that had a duly competent player (more veteran than anyone here but me, if I'm not mistaken) who fought well. It was then spared at least four years against Edward the Black Prince (who will die in fewer than ten, although in fairness he was still able to command until 1371 and I was cheated out of the four years) and kept a vassal it was absolutely incapable of keeping by force of arms. In a defensive DOW I'll likely never get again.
There's no call to give it anymore lead time than that. And certainly not any major reconstructive edits. It is where it is and deserves the chance to fight for its life.
Anything else is deus ex machina.
You did fine. Played it well. France did have the advantage (at least after Edward was killed by the AI), but it was a clumsy advantage to use. You had hundreds of thousands of AI armies swarming all over France, but you couldn't exactly give them orders.
Your only real mistake, from what I could see, was trying to take provinces from Guyenne and marching all over central France instead of massing under your 5 shock and keeping me at bay in northern France. You could've won it fairly handily if you had.
But other than that, you did fine. And while I understand your quitting, I do hope you reconsider and continue on.
All,
It's come to my attention that Aladar intends to boost France artifically with edits. I assume this means, if nothing else, incorporating provinces into it.
I have to say, if this is a serious proposal it really ruins the game. Not just for me, not just for the French player, but for everybody, because it sets the precedent that if you lose, even if you were on equal terms (or superior terms, as the case was here), your country will be salvaged and given yet another chance by the divine intervention of the GM.
It seems to me that if you didn't want the HYW to go to the English, if you didn't even want there to be the possibility, you should've started in 1492 or 1520, not 1337. And you definitely shouldn't have given England to me, or to any other aggressive player (and it's well-established in the community that I am). Because here's the situation, as Nor says:
1. The first phase of the HYW is the most important. France can afford to lose it (although perhaps not as badly as it did) but England can't, because its vassals will be dismembered and it'll lose any foothold on the continent.
2. England and France cannot coexist in France except in a state of perpetual war, unless they determine their borders around the Atlantic, and that situation is still very dangerous for England.
3. England has only one opportunity, with many phases throughout the 14th and early 15th centuries, to win the HYW.
I had no choice but to either win a decisive victory (more and more decisive the more inflation I took) or to gain an across the board white peace, leaving my vassals intact. As you all know, I offered that. More than once, in fact (I believe there were three seperate offers, over a number of years). Whether it was in Nor's best interests to peace out at those moments or not we'llnever know, as he lost and a WP then certainly would've been better than that.
Now we're in this situation... England is not gamebreaking and won't be even if it unites France, because of the aforementioned logistical problems, the probable entry into France by Austria and Venice and Aragon, the defficit of good leaders throughout the late 15th and certainly 16th centuries (Spain with Farnesse will decimate English France; and el Gran Capitan won't do so badly either), etc. We have ample evidence of this in past 1419 games (one of which France was human, as now, although I can say, having beating a France in a GC, it's much easier with Henry and Bedford). So there's no support whatsoever that "if France falls so too falls the game."
Moreover, I told Aladar explicitly that, without a sufficient number of cores to race France in DOWs, force-vassalizations, province-taking, etc., as Hive had intended, I would have to beat the French so badly they couldn't stop me from taking it a little more slowly. I don't see why I ought to be punished for something that was perfectly foreseable. And France can still get lucky.
All of that aside, though, the most important objection here is simply that England won fair and square against a France that had a duly competent player (more veteran than anyone here but me, if I'm not mistaken) who fought well. It was then spared at least four years against Edward the Black Prince (who will die in fewer than ten, although in fairness he was still able to command until 1371 and I was cheated out of the four years) and kept a vassal it was absolutely incapable of keeping by force of arms. In a defensive DOW I'll likely never get again.
There's no call to give it anymore lead time than that. And certainly not any major reconstructive edits. It is where it is and deserves the chance to fight for its life.
Anything else is deus ex machina.
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Aladar,
Like I said, those edits are completely unacceptable.
And don't start this "I clearly stripped too hard" nonsense. All you did was take away some of its vassals, a move that's meaningless in that A. The manpower produced is not real but effects the maximum cap and support, niether of which were reached anyway and B. France was never at peace to diplo-annex, and most of its vassals are now lost.
France had the home turf advantage and the AI and was even in everything else but morale and had better MP. It had a competent, experienced player.
Giving six (Seven?) provinces is utter nonsense and completely unfair.
Like I said, those edits are completely unacceptable.
And don't start this "I clearly stripped too hard" nonsense. All you did was take away some of its vassals, a move that's meaningless in that A. The manpower produced is not real but effects the maximum cap and support, niether of which were reached anyway and B. France was never at peace to diplo-annex, and most of its vassals are now lost.
France had the home turf advantage and the AI and was even in everything else but morale and had better MP. It had a competent, experienced player.
Giving six (Seven?) provinces is utter nonsense and completely unfair.
I won't even read that WHINER POST
HG stop whining now or i'll start becomming severly angry. You are not getting France for free - end of story.
HG stop whining now or i'll start becomming severly angry. You are not getting France for free - end of story.
I agree with HG's conclusions on the unfairness of editing France. If you start a game 1337 or 1419 this is a risk you take, and that's why it's not very common to play from these startdates.
IMHO, if players think England is getting to strong, there are things that can be done, in game! The neighbouring (DAN, HAB, ARG, VEN) countries can interfere, stopping a future menace. The European history is full of such alliances. The easy way out is to have GM edit the game, so everyone can continue to bash AI nations instead, not having to worry about anything beyond building their own states.
I should have won this war, really. If anyone is interested in why I didn't, here are my main mistakes:
EDIT: I have not changed my mind about quitting.
IMHO, if players think England is getting to strong, there are things that can be done, in game! The neighbouring (DAN, HAB, ARG, VEN) countries can interfere, stopping a future menace. The European history is full of such alliances. The easy way out is to have GM edit the game, so everyone can continue to bash AI nations instead, not having to worry about anything beyond building their own states.
I should have won this war, really. If anyone is interested in why I didn't, here are my main mistakes:
- Not minting full from start. It was a war of survival, and England mint. I did too, but then it was too late.
- Making separate peace, leaving England to crush my allies. That's a stupidity of ranking 10 out of 10.
EDIT: I have not changed my mind about quitting.