China

[ZhugeKongming]

Just in case noone else noticed yet...

I just applied the new beta patch, and the change of the tag for Han culture has resulted in a bunch of provinces having "none" culture. At least for me, anyway.

For example, you look at a Chinese province and its culture is displayed as "none" and China itself has "none" and Cantonese for state cultures.

Hope that helps out in some way.

In the patch notes, Johan says that he changed the tag for "han" culture to "chihan." So my guess is, that's the reason.

 

[Culise]

I haven't done anything with it, mostly because there didn't seem to be much interest and there wasn't any kind of consensus. If I'm correct in assuming you've taken up the mantle of leadership for Abe, I'd be happy to get to work on this within the next week or so with your permission.
EDIT: Actually, I take that back, now that I've thought about it. Adding a bunch of provinces to China with the map editor, as most people seem to be itching to do, would vastly improve gameplay there as far as my ideas are concerned, and I could add even more states... I want to see where the map editing goes, and if Abe is going to incorporate one of the edited maps or even produce one of its own.

Oh, you're around? I was a bit curious since I hadn't seen posts by you in here lately (I'm not exactly one to talk, though). Out of curiousity, what did you think of my ideas regarding Korea and Manchuria (Not so much the tech tree, that was just me overstepping a bit, as I said, and could be simulated by a high innovation bar, but rather that Song China never invaded and thus Korea kept Manchuria throughout the era). Granted, it draws the point of departure far earlier than any other place, but still...I've been beginning to consider the 1419 situation, too, but I lost my EU2 files to a hard drive failure so I'm working it out on paper, right now.

 

[ZhugeKongming]

Oh, you're around? I was a bit curious since I hadn't seen posts by you in here lately (I'm not exactly one to talk, though). Out of curiousity, what did you think of my ideas regarding Korea and Manchuria (Not so much the tech tree, that was just me overstepping a bit, as I said, and could be simulated by a high innovation bar, but rather that Song China never invaded and thus Korea kept Manchuria throughout the era). Granted, it draws the point of departure far earlier than any other place, but still...I've been beginning to consider the 1419 situation, too, but I lost my EU2 files to a hard drive failure so I'm working it out on paper, right now.

I think they have merit, and with edits to give Korea a proper number of provinces, they're actually much more viable now.
As for Goguryeo being crushed by the Song... I'm not sure what you mean. I thought it was crushed by the Tang?

 

[tombom]

Actually, I really don't know what's happening to Abe at the moment. AD came back, but he's disappeared again - from this forum at least. Then again, I haven't really been here for the last week.

 

[Culise]

I think they have merit, and with edits to give Korea a proper number of provinces, they're actually much more viable now.
As for Goguryeo being crushed by the Song... I'm not sure what you mean. I thought it was crushed by the Tang?

Gods, you're right...the Song wouldn't come to power for almost 300 years after Goguryeo's fall.

The problem remains, though, since with the two largest successor states being Jin Empire and Song Dynasty, the Chinese rift wouldn't have occurred then. A good place for a Chinese rift could be the fall of the Sui dynasty in 618, but falling instead into a cycle more closely resembling the upheaval following the historic fall of the Tang or the North/South dynastic rift (Probably the latter, if we want a similarity to the Jin/Song rift of the ATL suggested), with multiple squabbling claimants to Chinese sovereignity, which would only unite to drag down anyone who got too powerful. Over such an extended time (Far longer than any other period of Chinese disunity), one could say that most have given up entirely on it and maintain the cycle only to preserve their own independence from the possibility that any one faction that persists in maintaining a policy of reunification could become too strong (Such as the Jin or Song states).

Another interesting idea could be along similar lines for the future explanation of continuing instability, but have the divergence occur a little later, when the Tang/Silla invasion of Goguryeo fails miserably (Which could also pave the way for the Goguryeo conquest of Silla), and have this promote instability (Especially if they squandered funds and manpower trying again and again) along the same lines as the historical Sui, pressing the collapse of the Tang centuries early. Since after the Tang, historically, came a serious period of instability (Admittedly, this was due mostly to the fact that power became decentralized to an extreme degree before its fall, which would allow for independent states to form in the south), it's possible that a similar thing could happen, especially with the soon-advent of Empress Shengshen of the brief Zhao dynasty and the resulting problems between her and the Confucian court.

 

[unmerged(16159)]

Calanctus has written to me okaying further work on China. I am writing this only to bring the Thread back to the top for people to read and review the existing good work and discussion that has taken place.

I will begin writing in earnest when I have completed The Hanseatic League.