Confirmed CK III - train commander task seem not to be working

[ShlP]

Short summary of your issue
train commander task seem not to be working

Game Version
1.5.0.1

What OS are you playing on?
Windows

What platform are you using?
Steam

What DLC do you have installed?
Royal Court,

Do you have mods enabled?
No

Have you tried verifying your game files (Steam only)?
No

How much "pain" is this causing you?
8

Please explain the issue you experienced in the most condensed way possible
train commander task seem not to be working for me after new game with royal court dlc for 3 generations of my king
I never recieved new knights or improving prowess massage.

Please explain how to reproduce the issue


Is there anything else you think could help us identify/replicate the issue?


I have attached a save game
No

Upload Attachment
File(s) attached

 

[Mcgan]

Odd, because someone else claimed it's actually the other way around. The main event (Monthly_on_action) doesn't work, and it's the side effects that were working. (Resulting in Train Commanders doing nearly nothing.)

Note that this was before the update that just released today.

So you're saying now the MAIN event works, but the side effects are now broken?

Who said that? And yes I'm sure btw, I've been testing it for some time now.

 

[Toybasher]

Who said that? And yes I'm sure btw, I've been testing it for some time now.

@michx0 's posts on page 1. Very curious what changed under the hood for 1.5.1.1.

 

[Mcgan]

@michx0 's posts on page 1. Very curious what changed under the hood for 1.5.1.1.

Missed that one somehow. If you read the rest of the conversation, you'll see that even they say otherwise eventually.

All that changed for 1.5.1.1:
Only the file "\common\council_tasks00_marshal_tasks.txt" was changed, and only the "task_train_commanders" part, in the following ways:
- Corrected "monthly_on_action" to now properly be "monthly_on_action = train_commanders_monthly_on_action" like was suggested by @Chatoustikmou
- Added the following:

        archer_cavalry_damage_mult = 1
        archer_cavalry_toughness_mult = 1
        camel_cavalry_damage_mult = 1
        camel_cavalry_toughness_mult = 1
        elephant_cavalry_damage_mult = 1
        elephant_cavalry_toughness_mult = 1

to make the new unit types introduced in 1.5 properly benefit from the main effect of the task.

That's it, nothing else was changed concerning marshal council tasks.

 

[Mastigos]

@Mcgan I cannot fuking believe that they still have not fixed their own game.

February 8th and March 22nd gives them ~45 days/6 WEEKS to fix a few lines of code so that their new Marshal task actually works without the community doing their coding for them.

I made a specific thread about Train Royal Guard - which is a separate issue from Train Commanders - and they labeled it a "duplicate" report and linked me back here. So here I am

They really, really need to get on the ball about this. I just got done testing and no, Train Royal Guard still doesn't fire its side effects. Ever. The only way it fires is if I custom install YOUR mod, and even then the fire rate is set so low that it feels like a waste to use. Do I really care about +30ish Knight Effectiveness when I have 47 knights and half of them want Blademaster and Prowess boosts that Train Commander gives them when it procs several times a year? Or do I want that sweet 2% chance for ONLY 1 Prowess, no 2 Prowess windfalls, no Blademaster windfalls, no Commander Traits, no Martial.

You think Paradox would go, "Hey, maybe we should fix our new features after nearly two months of our new features being broken - and give their side effects enough usefulness that they warrant using if you don't care about +Martial and +Commander Traits, but REALLY care about +Prowess and +Blademaster? And really want another layer of protection against plots and schemes?

But nah, leave it up to the community as they save Ivar the Boneless' daughter from a rarely seen bug that doens't affect like 99% of players at any given time.

All I can say is thank YOU for at least giving a shit. But I still can't justify using your mod, because it (somehow) seems to negatively effect the proc rate of Train Commanders when its turned on. A few others I talked to that I shared your mod with verified this on my computer (I didn't want to give away your mod without permission, so its only on my computer at the moment).

It doesn't seem to change any files with Train Commanders though, which confused the hell out of me. Does Glitterhoof mod need to be in a certain order with your mod in the mod list? Should I be using your second attachment, or does your first work too? I assumed second (but its a slightly smaller size?).

Paradox has me to the point where I don't know if I'm coming or going. I tried to tell them what I saw, was told my observations where one and the same as those in this thread - they're not. And they end up pushing out a patch that doesn't fix either issue.

 

[Toybasher]

Sliding into a bit off topic territory here, but is it confirmed if other tasks BESIDES train commanders and royal guard are bugged? Or is it just those two.

I.E. if you had domestic affairs for your chancellor you had events that could fire that let you do stuff like end internal wars, force vassals into partition, or lower crown authority as a negative event in councillor_on_actions. Do those also still fire?

 

[Mcgan]

But I still can't justify using your mod, because it (somehow) seems to negatively effect the proc rate of Train Commanders when its turned on. A few others I talked to that I shared your mod with verified this on my computer (I didn't want to give away your mod without permission, so its only on my computer at the moment).

It doesn't seem to change any files with Train Commanders though, which confused the hell out of me. Does Glitterhoof mod need to be in a certain order with your mod in the mod list?

I'm not sure I'm understanding this properly so I might end up saying more than necessary, apologies in advance.

What the Glitterhoof mod fixes is half of what was fixed in today's patch:
"- Fixed the Train Commanders task not consistently improving Knights/Commanders"
But it doesn't fix the other half:
"[...] and also not boosting the strength of new Men-at-Arms types"

This means that Glitterhoof is no longer useful if you only care about fixes for the marshal tasks. Mod author will need to remove that fix as it's more harmful than useful with today's update.
(Only if using archer cavalry, camels, or elephants, mind you)


My mod only fixes the positive side effects for the "Manage Royal Guards" and "Train Commanders" marshal tasks. It fixes them by making it possible for them to trigger/happen.
It doesn't affect the chance of anything, so I don't really understand what you mean by "it (somehow) seems to negatively effect the proc rate of Train Commanders when its turned on."
Did you mean the main effects or the side effects? Or both?

Should I be using your second attachment, or does your first work too? I assumed second (but its a slightly smaller size?).

The first one is the fixed file. It's to be used by someone who knows what to do with it, either to make their own mod/fixes or just to see the differences with the original file. Or even better, improve it.
The second one is the fix put in the format of an entire mod, to be used directly by anyone that doesn't know what to do with the 1st attached file. It's smaller because it's in an archive, and that's kinda one of the main points of archives. So don't let that scare you. It's a 7z archive, which you extract with a software like 7-zip for example (very good software btw, you can get it there: https://www.7-zip.org/download.html)

The fix is exactly the same for both, it's mostly a matter of convenience.

(I didn't want to give away your mod without permission, so its only on my computer at the moment)

Well then I give you my permission
There's no need for permission though, I shared those files for them to be useful. If you can make them more useful by sharing them yourself with others, don't let me stop you.

Sliding into a bit off topic territory here, but is it confirmed if other tasks BESIDES train commanders and royal guard are bugged? Or is it just those two.

I.E. if you had domestic affairs for your chancellor you had events that could fire that let you do stuff like end internal wars, force vassals into partition, or lower crown authority as a negative event in councillor_on_actions. Do those also still fire?

No, it's not confirmed yet as far as I know. The only other side effect I checked was the spymaster's "Hostile Scheme Disrupted" for the "Disrupt Scheme" task and I can confirm that one works.

 

[Mastigos]

@Mcgan thanks for being so kind. My friends and I appreciate your work, and your positive attitude.

As for the reduced side effect fire rate, it seems that it was conflicting with another mod because it's fine now.

In fact, I (somehow) got a new game to work. Train Royal Guard popped off twice in 9 years, which is statistically quite average (2 x 12 = 24% a year, 9 year should be about 2 side effects)

On the other hand, Train Commanders popped off 13 times in 8 years -- way more prowess and blademaster procs (7 in 8 years vs 2 in 9 years) plus the 6 martial + commander traits....just wayyyy outperformed in terms of stat increases.

On the other hand, when you've got 51 knights and they have 783% power, giving them all 30% more effectiveness is significant enough to use during war. It just takes a while to charge up

 

[Mcgan]

As for the reduced side effect fire rate, it seems that it was conflicting with another mod because it's fine now.

Ah, that would make sense. Still, since it's all random, it is possible to be terribly unlucky too. Or awesomely lucky, in better times!

On the other hand, Train Commanders popped off 13 times in 8 years -- way more prowess and blademaster procs (7 in 8 years vs 2 in 9 years) plus the 6 martial + commander traits....just wayyyy outperformed in terms of stat increases.

Train Commanders is pretty powerful because of this:

Like it says, it can happen each month. Now it works for everyone, as this is what was fixed in today's update. It is linked to 3 events, all positive:
- get a new commander (maximum once every 2 years)
- a commander learns a new Commander Trait
- a knight gain Blademaster or more Prowess (1 or 2)

On the other hand, the side effects:

Are less powerful:
The 1st one can only teach Commander Traits that one of your commanders already has.
The 2nd one is the same as the side effect from "Manage Royal Guards": it gives 1 prowess to a random knight.

And also, very important detail: Side effects can only happen maximum once a year. This is true for all of them, and it depends on the council position.
So for example, if your Marshal triggers a side effect, no other Marshal side effect will happen in the year following that, even if you switch their task.

All that makes it very easy to not see (or even care) that the positive side effects of Train Commanders don't work currently.
It's more obvious with Manage Royal Guards, though.

 

[Mastigos]

Ah, that would make sense. Still, since it's all random, it is possible to be terribly unlucky too. Or awesomely lucky, in better times!


Train Commanders is pretty powerful because of this:
View attachment 821721
Like it says, it can happen each month. Now it works for everyone, as this is what was fixed in today's update. It is linked to 3 events, all positive:
- get a new commander (maximum once every 2 years)
- a commander learns a new Commander Trait
- a knight gain Blademaster or more Prowess (1 or 2)

On the other hand, the side effects:
View attachment 821723
Are less powerful:
The 1st one can only teach Commander Traits that one of your commanders already has.
The 2nd one is the same as the side effect from "Manage Royal Guards": it gives 1 prowess to a random knight.

And also, very important detail: Side effects can only happen maximum once a year. This is true for all of them, and it depends on the council position.
So for example, if your Marshal triggers a side effect, no other Marshal side effect will happen in the year following that, even if you switch their task.

All that makes it very easy to not see (or even care) that the positive side effects of Train Commanders don't work currently.
It's more obvious with Manage Royal Guards, though.

@Mcgan TY for the info, helpful as always.

So I was thinking - if you don't mind, help me decide if this is a good idea or not.

I think that Train ROYAL GUARD seems to cast a wide net for what is essentially describing a kingsguard. It can buff every single knight, but the chance is low and capped at once a year. So I have an idea how to inject some flavor into the Marshal ability -- hopefully it is both compelling and balanced.

So if you are a Warlike Court (Bellicose, Stoic, or Bureaucratic ethos only) then Train Royal Guard gets a passive additional effect: it gives a 33.3%/33.3%/33.4% monthly chance to "Improve Kingsguard" (instead of side effect: Improve Knight) which only targets: Bodyguard #1/Bodyguard #2/Personal Champion, respectively. This additional "Improve Kingsguard" monthly effect added to Train Royal Guard would add Prowess = +1 [90% chance/month ]; or add Aspiring Blademaster [10% chance/month]; or add another rank of Blademaster trait IF target already has Aspiring Blademaster [10% chance/month, replaces adding Aspiring Blademaster]; or target gets Prowess = +2 if and only if target already has Legendary Blademaster (which creates some incentive to keep your bodyguards and personal champion the same, instead of playing musical kingsguard.)

If this sounds too strong as a passive, it could be repurposed as a Tradition (may I suggest societal or ritual) that adds this passive effect.

I for one think is has strong flavor, and its focus is both sweeping (in terms of increasing Knight Effectiveness for every knight) and pinpoint (in terms of monthly chance to perma-buff only units considered "Kingsguard" i.e. bodyguards & personal champion.

 

[Mcgan]

@Mcgan TY for the info, helpful as always.

So I was thinking - if you don't mind, help me decide if this is a good idea or not.

I think that Train ROYAL GUARD seems to cast a wide net for what is essentially describing a kingsguard. It can buff every single knight, but the chance is low and capped at once a year. So I have an idea how to inject some flavor into the Marshal ability -- hopefully it is both compelling and balanced.

So if you are a Warlike Court (Bellicose, Stoic, or Bureaucratic ethos only) then Train Royal Guard gets a passive additional effect: it gives a 33.3%/33.3%/33.4% monthly chance to "Improve Kingsguard" (instead of side effect: Improve Knight) which only targets: Bodyguard #1/Bodyguard #2/Personal Champion, respectively. This additional "Improve Kingsguard" monthly effect added to Train Royal Guard would add Prowess = +1 [90% chance/month ]; or add Aspiring Blademaster [10% chance/month]; or add another rank of Blademaster trait IF target already has Aspiring Blademaster [10% chance/month, replaces adding Aspiring Blademaster]; or target gets Prowess = +2 if and only if target already has Legendary Blademaster (which creates some incentive to keep your bodyguards and personal champion the same, instead of playing musical kingsguard.)

If this sounds too strong as a passive, it could be repurposed as a Tradition (may I suggest societal or ritual) that adds this passive effect.

I for one think is has strong flavor, and its focus is both sweeping (in terms of increasing Knight Effectiveness for every knight) and pinpoint (in terms of monthly chance to perma-buff only units considered "Kingsguard" i.e. bodyguards & personal champion.

It makes sense, I believe. Since a lot less characters are eligible, maybe the monthly chance of it happening should be lower in order to not be too powerful... hard to tell.

But I really like the idea of court types being able to improve the outcome/effects of some council tasks, especially the less useful ones. There's something like that for Administrative Courts already (only an effectiveness boost, but still), and I think it would be interesting to expand on that.