ck1.5 (licensing the Europa-engine)

[unmerged(95262)]

hi guys

1) we can create our own team and send request to paradox
are there qualified programmers and designers which want to take the sourse code and modify ck dv? are there many good ideas to make game better & more interesting?

2) is it illegal to make free "clone" of ck? i want to try

 

[jordarkelf]

1) Of the 150+ teams who applied for the Europa license, not a single one wanted to do CK. If there were really anyone interested in such a project I think we'd know by now.

2) Absolutely so.

 

[unmerged(95262)]

1) Of the 150+ teams who applied for the Europa license, not a single one wanted to do CK. If there were really anyone interested in such a project I think we'd know by now.

as i can see many folks whine about ck2, tell how much they like ck and etc.
and nobody wants to improve this game himself? it's sad

2) Absolutely so.

what a pity!

 

[unmerged(95262)]

In my case it isn't a lack of interest, but a lack of skills. I am not a C/C++ coder so even though I know what I want to do with DV, I wouldn't be able to actually change anything. Besides, I want many improvements from the EU3 engine...

i'm a c/c++/c# coder(maybe not very professional right now) and have a lack of good ideas

maybe we can supplement each other? let's try!

 

[unmerged(87447)]

I'm honestly not sure why a free clone of CK, in the FreeCiv or OpenTTD mould, would be illegal. There is of course rather the problem that it probably just wouldn't be much good.

 

[unmerged(94161)]

A free clone of CK wouldn't be illegal unless you like:

A) Used resources directly from CK (And even then only if you packaged them with it. Writing an alternate engine that REQUIRED a legal copy of CK's data/pictures/music to run would probably be fine).
B) Reverse-engineered the original engine.
C) Copied the ruleset verbatim (and if you're making a free clone, WHY in the world would you do this?)
D) Sold it (and if you're making a free clone, again... you're probably not selling it).

 

[unmerged(95262)]

A) Used resources directly from CK (And even then only if you packaged them with it. Writing an alternate engine that REQUIRED a legal copy of CK's data/pictures/music to run would probably be fine).

yeah, it would be great!

B) Reverse-engineered the original engine.

no of course

C) Copied the ruleset verbatim (and if you're making a free clone, WHY in the world would you do this?)

1) my hobby 2) i like the concept of this game

 

[jordarkelf]

I'm honestly not sure why a free clone of CK, in the FreeCiv or OpenTTD mould, would be illegal. There is of course rather the problem that it probably just wouldn't be much good.

Those wouldn't be I guess. I had something else in mind for some reason...

Not sure how feasable it is though. Those kind of projects usually have entire teams of coders behind them.

 

[unmerged(94161)]

Lots of really in-depth indie strategy games made by small, small groups of people. Dwarf Fortress, for instance.

I actually see the scale being the biggest issue, because that's less challenging and more doing the same stuff over and over again. So not exactly fun to do.

If graphics are an issue, I think CK could actually done pretty effectively in text-mode.

Actually... anyone interested?

 

[unmerged(95262)]

i'm interested. that's why i began this thread
i don't believe that ck2 will come soon and have small system requirements(also it sure will have 3d map and ugly 3d units)
i like ck dv, but it needs to be polished


two ways:
1)we create a team and improve ck dv. folks, where are you?
2)maybe i'll try to code something like ck. i have some ideas about this
anyway it'll take much time

today i have sent a letter to enginelicense [at] paradoxplaza [dot] com

 

[Jayavarman]

Good luck. I am supporting you by making this post.

 

[Spruce]

Probably many of the CK lovers - like me - in the meantime, have got married with children and coping with their jobs during hard economical times.

So I must say I support this project, I really have no time to invest. Sorry, hope others will stand up who have.

o

 

[Chamoisking]

You guys should start making a major CK mod first. EU2 has AGCEEP. HoI2 has TRP, CORE. Vicky has VIP. EU3 has MM. What does CK have ? (In my opinion, DVIP hasn't gone far enough to be "major")

After that, you may see what you need and want for CK 1.5.

The reason i don't want to mod CK is those realm disruption events are really disastrous. There are at least 5 events that each of them have over 5000 lines.

 

[unmerged(95262)]

You guys should start making a major CK mod first. EU2 has AGCEEP. HoI2 has TRP, CORE. Vicky has VIP. EU3 has MM. What does CK have ? (In my opinion, DVIP hasn't gone far enough to be "major")

After that, you may see what you need and want for CK 1.5.

The reason i don't want to mod CK is those realm disruption events are really disastrous. There are at least 5 events that each of them have over 5000 lines.

at first we(we?? who are "we"? maybe me?) need people to form team. as i can see nobody wants to join. it's sad
a good addon requires at least a programmer, a designer and a man who generates ideas

who wants to try?? please, write it here!! you'll lose nothing!

 

[unmerged(94161)]

CK's not really moddable enough at a mechanics level to do some of the things that need done. Additionally the engine still has a lot of unfixed bugs. The zero morale on reload thing's particularly... bad.

What needs done, though? A few things immediately come to mind.

- Antipopes. I actually don't care about these at all but everyone else does.

- More meaningful laws. While the inheritance laws have some pretty big effects, the church and realm laws don't as much. This CAN be addressed via modding if you strictly focus on events, but as far as actually modding how troop composition and stuff works... I don't think you can do that.

- Weather. Maybe this is in in some form but I'm pretty sure that you can fight in the middle of Siberia in December as you can in July.

- Espionage. As it stands you can assassinate people, only the AI will never assassinate against eachother/player unless the player does something first. Not really good! Additionally there should probably be some options to like, destroy improvements or induce Bad Province Effects.

- AI needs to be better in general really.

- Balance of power between the different social classes in your provinces never seemed to matter much to me. It effects troop fielding, taxes, prestige and nobility, and revolt risk somewhat, but... as I mentioned in another thread I was trying to find ways to give the different groups a sort of "consciousness" or purpose, so that, say, the power of the nobles in your territory, since it causes more knights to be fielded, lowers the MTTH for the Thieves Guild Removed! event from happening. Things like that.

Nice to have things?

- More direct and meaningful interaction with your courtiers/vassals.
- Events with specific lengths of time till they happen.
- Things that make provinces more unique and interesting. I think a provincial decision system for your personal demesne could be fun if it interacted with the vassal system.
- As someone else mentioned, find a way of allowed different forms of Feudalism.

 

[Nick B II]

at first we(we?? who are "we"? maybe me?) need people to form team. as i can see nobody wants to join. it's sad
a good addon requires at least a programmer, a designer and a man who generates ideas

who wants to try?? please, write it here!! you'll lose nothing!

I'm game.

I have some experience programming (aka: I took a class once), and I understand the mechanics of CK about as well as anyone on this forum does.

There's a couple things that I think would be quite easy to do. Number one is you could add about 100 pixels of terra incognita at the edges of the map. A true Emperor tier would be nice, and not hard to do if you don't make any createable Emperor titles. More cultures, traits, and religions would be cool. Also some invisible provinces so that the next guy who does a British Isles map mode doesn't have to mess with sea zones.

It also should not be terribly hard to create non-human races. Elves, Dwarves , or whatever. There was actually a bug in the early Mac version of CK that made anyone who started the scenario immortal, which meant they were de facto Elves. Vampires and werewolves would be cool, too.

Here's a list of harder things to do:

1) Real Civil Wars. Stephen and Matilda both claimed to be monarch of England, and received pledges of allegiance from many vassals. Note that the Antipope thing could be taken care of with this mechanic.

2) Navies. My Midieval Naval history sucks, but we could look into stealing the EU2 Naval Code.

3) More legal options. Elective law should involve some more electioneering, and lead to disputed elections. The mod that lets girls inherit should be fully incorporated into the game, and there should be versions of this law for Primo, Gavelkind, and Consanguinity.

4) Use multicore processors better. This is difficult because it breaks CK into two programs using the same memory. We could probably move the music from the main process without too much trouble, personal events, and maybe pathfinding. This could lead to problems, tho, as if a fosterling comes home a millisecond before a fosterling event fires at his old court the game could get confused. This seems like it should be fairly simple to me, but apparently it's very difficult because Johan et al. don't do it.

5) More titles. Counts should be able to have vassals (Viscounts). There should be a step between Count and Duke (Margrave). And it would be nice if you could grant a relative some income without losing an entire county.

6) More laws, and better implementation of existing laws. "Traditional Custom" was much different in Ireland and Italy, and in true FC realms it was illegal for a King to intervene in disputes with his vassals.

Nick

 

[Sophilia]

I'm no good at coding myself, but I do have a few more ideas to add to the pile, these ones about religious matters.

Have the Caliphate and Patriarchy implemented as well as the Papacy. France just took Mecca? JIHAD!
No more unlimited demesne on religious realms. The horror stories about the Pope of Poland show why this is a bad idea.
Heresies of different types should have different traits and effects. As it stands now, there's no difference between a Cathar, a Hussite, and someone who believes that Loki is Lord of the Aesir.
In the same vein, if a realm converts to heresy, excommunication shouldn't matter because they already deny the authority of the Pope/Patriarch/Caliph, but they then open themselves up to being a crusade target.
The Mongols should have their own religion group. Mostly so they can rampage like usual even if a massive pagan state forms.

Anything else y'all can think of?

 

[unmerged(95262)]

More cultures, traits, and religions would be cool.

of course

Also some invisible provinces so that the next guy who does a British Isles map mode doesn't have to mess with sea zones.

don't understand you well

It also should not be terribly hard to create non-human races. Elves, Dwarves , or whatever. There was actually a bug in the early Mac version of CK that made anyone who started the scenario immortal, which meant they were de facto Elves. Vampires and werewolves would be cool, too.

cool idea:rofl:

1) Real Civil Wars. Stephen and Matilda both claimed to be monarch of England, and received pledges of allegiance from many vassals. Note that the Antipope thing could be taken care of with this mechanic.
3) More legal options. Elective law should involve some more electioneering, and lead to disputed elections. The mod that lets girls inherit should be fully incorporated into the game, and there should be versions of this law for Primo, Gavelkind, and Consanguinity.
4) Use multicore processors better. This is difficult because it breaks CK into two programs using the same memory. We could probably move the music from the main process without too much trouble, personal events, and maybe pathfinding. This could lead to problems, tho, as if a fosterling comes home a millisecond before a fosterling event fires at his old court the game could get confused. This seems like it should be fairly simple to me, but apparently it's very difficult because Johan et al. don't do it.
5) More titles. Counts should be able to have vassals (Viscounts). There should be a step between Count and Duke (Margrave). And it would be nice if you could grant a relative some income without losing an entire county.
6) More laws, and better implementation of existing laws. "Traditional Custom" was much different in Ireland and Italy, and in true FC realms it was illegal for a King to intervene in disputes with his vassals.

great!!

I'm no good at coding myself, but I do have a few more ideas to add to the pile, these ones about religious matters.

Have the Caliphate and Patriarchy implemented as well as the Papacy. France just took Mecca? JIHAD!
No more unlimited demesne on religious realms. The horror stories about the Pope of Poland show why this is a bad idea.
Heresies of different types should have different traits and effects. As it stands now, there's no difference between a Cathar, a Hussite, and someone who believes that Loki is Lord of the Aesir.
In the same vein, if a realm converts to heresy, excommunication shouldn't matter because they already deny the authority of the Pope/Patriarch/Caliph, but they then open themselves up to being a crusade target.
The Mongols should have their own religion group. Mostly so they can rampage like usual even if a massive pagan state forms.

Anything else y'all can think of?

thumbs up


okay, as i can see we have three men: me, Nick B II & Sophilia

i wrote a letter to enfinelicense@paradoxplaza.com but still haven't received an answer. Maybe, there are too many letters? it should be a good idea to write a PM directly to Johan Probably, he can make an exception for us?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

i wrote a letter to enfinelicense@paradoxplaza.com but still haven't received an answer. Maybe, there are too many letters? it should be a good idea to write a PM directly to Johan Probably, he can make an exception for us?

I think you can better contact Kallocain, the community manager for that.

 

[unmerged(94161)]

What are licensing fees, anyway? And how open source is it if you get the engine? It might be easier to do if people can come on, write a section they care about, then move on or something.

---edit---

Anyway, about the Caliphate and Patriarchy you had. That's really good and could easily be expanded to allow for anti-popes or fun, possibly ahistorical, situations where, say, the Caliphate, Patriarchy, and Pope try to hijack control of eachother or something.

In the same vein, if a realm converts to heresy, excommunication shouldn't matter because they already deny the authority of the Pope/Patriarch/Caliph, but they then open themselves up to being a crusade target.

Yeah, and as someone else mentioned, heretic states should like eachother within reasonable limits. Maybe based on decisions. So if, say, you're a heretic orthodox state and the pope excommunicates you, you can decide to get friendly with the pagans, form a big alliance, and show the pope the what-for

1) Real Civil Wars. Stephen and Matilda both claimed to be monarch of England, and received pledges of allegiance from many vassals. Note that the Antipope thing could be taken care of with this mechanic.

Ah, yeah. That too. I was thinking about something similar where you could have like, two people acting as the active owner of a title. The problem is I'm not sure how you'd really make that play out in a sane way. I guess just splitting the realm would be easiest, like you suggested.