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Guildencrantz

Corporal
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Feb 15, 2012
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CK2 is beautiful and brilliant, but intrigue needs an overhaul. I've started designing a mod that, in the beginning, should at least address some of the most glaring issues, and eventually get the ball rolling on adding new plots, ambitions and other features. I'd love to have some feedback and co-conspirators. So far blueprints only, but I believe people might find these ideas interesting, contributions are welcome! I can do data file editing, but of course cracking CK2's specific system and its capabilities will take a little time.

Priority #1: Fix assassinations!
Assassinations are both overpowered and ahistorical (medieval rulers didn't keep trained stealth assassins!). I personally believe the plot system should almost completely replace the current assassination system, as medieval murders generally involved getting close to someone using people in positions of trust. Plots are there to accomplish just that. Unfortunately, diplomatic interactions are currently unmoddable, but there's a way to get around this - on-action events!

My idea is this: replace the "assassinate" option with "Plot assassination", and completely rework the on-action events to improve it. You can use multiple on-action events, and only the ones whose conditions are met trigger, so we can immediately separate into two types of assassinations:

- In your own court. The system would work fairly similarly to the current one, as it would assume you murder the person yourself. Later on, additional events using flags can be added to deal with the consequences of the killing, so as to stop it from being the primary court-management system. For instance, even a successful assassination might entail rumors, or psychological consequences for a character who is supposedly kind, honest and pious and goes around committing heinous crimes.

- In other people's courts. This is where the system needs heavy work. I propose completely or mostly dumping the current system for these and instead making a successful "plot assassination" decision flag the character to be available to this one as a potential plot target. And that's where the fun starts, as you should NEED co-conspirators close to an enemy to kill them. Again, this is medieval Europe and there are no professional contract killers.

The consequences of discovery should also be far more severe. Not just loss of piety, but adding traits that affect reputation if you do really nasty stuff. Killing your political rival should be fairly mild, the really ruthless stuff like killing family members, clergymen, children or pregnant women should entail proportionate damage to one's reputation. Because let's be honest here, a ruler who is discovered to have had two of his own kids smothered in their cribs to ensure a smooth succession wouldn't just lose a little favor in the eyes of the Church, he'd be hated and feared.

One concern, however, is whether the currently unmoddable AI would know how to use this. However, given the "chance of picking plots" mechanism, you could make sure they pick the plots to assassinate people they want to first, although this would require some testing.

Priority #2 - add more plots
Killing people isn't the only thing people in courts plotted to accomplish, or even the most common. Far more often they would try to smear someone, throw a false accusation, blackmail them etc. - or the opposite, gather backers to get in someone's good graces. Most plots should have to do with relations, non-military intrigue should be complex, and getting a major rival killed should be a significant accomplishment, not something you do left and right. I'll write down my ideas for this later, but specific plot concepts are, again, very welcome.
 
I'd like to see plots to replace rulers with other claimants, with the AI doing this if they like another claimant more, or if there's a foreigner on the throne and a non-foreign claimant.
 
Love the idea. I'm paralleling this to the books I've read of A Song of Ice and Fire, and, though not real, could very well be so. Looking forward to your work!
 
I was thinking about this earlier, the plots specifically. It would be an excellent idea if you could create your own plots in game, so instead of having specific plots like "depose king richard", you instead went into the plot manager, chose a target from the lists of characters, and then depending on the character chosen, a list of possible plot missions came up for that character. Plot power could be based on distance to target, type of plot as well as how many people in his court like you or dislike him. This could tie in well with the chancellors sow dissent ability.
 
I agree, plots are a great feature, but we really need more.

From basic ones, such as “become a spymaster at may liege’s court” to some very interesting ones. The more complex plots should have a few levels. So in order to dethrone a ruler, there could be a few plots, and in order to advance to another you need to success with a previous one (of course with each plot there would be a possibility that we are detected). Where the game really lacks is plots for rulers – e.g. there should be more plots where you can decide to attack another ruler along with his/her neighbours (not only allies), as well as plots where you force someone to give you his/her claims or lands without need to fight (for instance you are backed by neighbours, a liege, his/her courtiers and vassals), and plots aimed at fabrication of a claim (IMO more interesting option than sending you chancellor – or the current option could be supplemented by plot system, for instance: your chancellor finds some basis for your claim and makes some background for it (an event not giving you a claim but enabling you a plot for it), and then you can use a plot system in order to enforce it without or with a fight.

I don’t know how moddable the plot system is, but it would be nice to modify the whole diplomacy, and maybe some other aspects of the game as well.
 
This a great idea for a mod and really needed I think. I always thought the vanilla game should have had a way to frame someone for a crime so you could imprison them and such
Good luck
 
Good idea.

Hopefully also creating own plots, I'm sure Sengoku allows us to plot vs anyone. In CK2 I'm basically cut down to killing my wife. When other plots I could do is kill my uncle or some such.

anyway, good luck.
 
I thought the same thing about replacing Assassinate diplomacy option with plots so it's very nice to hear someone is having a go at it. Good luck! :)

I did not checked for their feasibility yet but here are some plot ideas that might give you inspiration:

*Spread nasty rumours about X: This one is very straightforward. Everyone is eligible to take this plot and success means major prestige and piety loss for target character and perhaps gaining a temporary trait that reduces prestige & piety.
*Steal from treasury: Only liege can be targeted by this and success means, well, transfer of money from greedy liege to deserving courtiers.
*Remove X from succession: This is for pretenders(or their wives etc.) and success means giving the heir a trait that makes him ineligible for succession(something like the bastard trait). Plotters will confront the liege and demand the heir to be removed or else. A far more humane alternative to killing heirs.
*Frame X for murder plot:This one is tricky so I'm not sure if it's even possible. Only Spymasters can take this and the liege cannot be targeted. After success the target character is given a plot that looks identical to assassination plot and targeted for spymaster's liege. Only this plot actually doesn't do anything. Soon after Spymaster 'discovers' this plot and reports to liege. A bit convoluted but the idea is to make a plot that can even fool players and what's the better way for it than making some dummy plots?

I'm going to watch this :)
 
Well, first roadblock hit. Calling all clever scripters!

You can give flags to characters, but - looking at the scripts - they seem to always be global, unlike opinion modifiers, which are subjective. Unfortunately, opinion modifiers are also visible, and that just doesn't cut it for intrigue. What I need to do is set a flag that is somehow accessible only to the specific character who originated it, as otherwise all the people marked for plots by the AI will appear in the menu as well.

There are a few workarounds here, the most obvious being to limit the diplomacy-screen targeting to human players and let the AI pick from a more limited list of targets. Although this would give more control over AI plotting, which is quite useful, it's a little... well, inelegant, since the whole point was to unify what so far is a system with two completely different and differently balanced ways of doing the same thing. On the other hand, it might help with the potential issue of AI characters not understanding the new model. And I definitely want to resolve the problem of diplo-assassinations before I get into adding more plots.