CO management seems to be chaotic

[xxcc9602]

Last week, CEO promised that this week's WOW would focus on art. This week, we get nothing but a statement that the art team is busy and next week's WOW will focus on modding.
It is clear that CEO has less influence on her team, the art team refuses to spend time writing WOW and CEO has losed the battle.
Let me state it again, chaos in the community is caused by chaos in CO.

 

[OrbitalClock]

What do you mean, they're just chilling and taking a short break, again.

I think they've gone mountain climbing or something, to get in the mood, last word of the week suggested so
"We are aware we have a mountain to climb when it comes to delivering on the expectations but we have our ice picks ready and we are surely used to the cold."
So when they get back from their short breaks, they will start delivering, something, partially, perhaps?

Maybe it didn't translate too well, but that's how I read it.

 

[co_avanya]

Sometimes unexpected things pop up and cause last-minute changes to plans. I know it might not make for as interesting a narrative, but that's what happened this time around. When last week's WoW went out, we had planned to share the update from the art team this week, but we've had to push it until next week. I apologize for the last-minute change in the schedule and that we didn't communicate the changes clearly.

The WoW as you've come to know is taking a little break, but Mariina will be back. In the meantime, we have a little something else planned, but more on that next week.

 

[MostBlunted]

People need to put the pitchforks down. You're not doing to suffer irreparably because of a missing CO update.

True, but we are suffering because of a "broken" game with lacking fixes. And don´t forget, it´s not in EA. In a few years gamers will be happy and defend a game that is barely able to launch I guess. Not saying that CS2 is unplayable but I don´t understand that "everything is cool and fine" attitude of gamers nowadays. It´s a full release for a full price so I should be allowed to expect that most of the stuff is working.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

True, but we are suffering because of a "broken" game with lacking fixes. And don´t forget, it´s not in EA. In a few years gamers will be happy and defend a game that is barely able to launch I guess. Not saying that CS2 is unplayable but I don´t understand that "everything is cool and fine" attitude of gamers nowadays. It´s a full release for a full price so I should be allowed to expect that most of the stuff is working.

The word 'suffering' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here IMHO.

 

[Density_Is_Real]

There's chaos, for sure!

 

[brother_korahael]

Where I live, a small business is classed as any business with 50 or fewer employees (source: the Australian Securities and Investments Commission). I don't know how this is classified in Finland, so I run off definitions I'm familiar. CO is operating as a small business (with a CEO as well; is this title an honorific or is there an actual board to answer to?) and their comms has that "we're a small business" vibe. It's not chaotic; you're expecting Triple-A multinational level marketing campaigns, where CO is a small business. Mismatch of expectations, not chaos.

 

[Daedalos_MS]

"small business" should never be used as excuse for anything.
The CO's silence in this forum does not have any meaningful excuse. How hard is to hire for a part-time gamer/student to communicate with us, organize the Bug report section, review suggestions etc., if everyone else, including people normally handling a communication are trying to fix the game.

I am one of the gamers to whom game is crashing to desktop once unpaused. There are several bug reports for the problem, non of them has reaction from CO saying apology for inconvinience, ETA for patch, or anything in that matter. I am not counting messages from Paradox's moderators "They are aware" as proper response. Moderators should not be responsible to handle Bug reports, or communicate any messages from developer. They are here to maintain certain level of communication, that it is. CO should be here and communicating with us.

In my country, during guarantee, you have 30 days to fix the problem. And if you are not capable to fix the problem, you are obligated to refund the full price. In that period CO was not able even to react in any way, shape or form

 

[brother_korahael]

"small business" should never be used as excuse for anything.

It does help to contextualise what is going on within the framework of what we’re dealing with in terms of the communications output we’re receiving. I don’t think pointing out the fact that they’re an SME is excusing them insofar as it helps us understand what’s going on, especially given OPs comment.

This week’s WotW, for example, was met with extreme disappointment judging by the comments. Why did they publish that? A larger company would have a dedicated marketing team to concentrate on public relations, engage with the community, etc. Where I work, Marketing consists of four departments totaling close to 100 people, each responsible for specific areas of marketing. CO has 30 people in total, and I guarantee most are from an IT background, not dedicated marketing professionals. Their communications is going to read like IT professionals writing down their ideas, go through a basic stage of refinement, and then published. Like a small business.

I don’t think that excuses them as much as it puts it in context with what we’re seeing. The disappointment in today’s WotW comes from this space: as far as Mariina is aware, her team is pumping out code as fast as they can, but she has to say something in the WotW that everyone wants to see on a weekly basis. They aren’t ready to show or announce anything. How does a large marketing team perform in this situation? How does a small team consisting of mostly IT professionals perform? How does a single person team perform? All very differently.

Likely, most people took what they said last week at face value and are bitterly disappointed that we didn’t see the goods. I’m not, i figured something like this would happen. Instead of saying “next week we’ll show you some goodies” they should have said “here are some of the features we’re working on, and here are some issues we’re facing, we’ll be happy to share more when we’ve solved some more problems”. Promising anything without the goods at the moment is not going to work well for anyone.

Otherwise I understand where you’re coming from. I’d be furious if I paid money for a game and it didn’t work.

Edit: I thought I’d also point out that personally I think this week’s WotW was a let down, precisely for the reason above. It’s dangerous to promise everyone’s favourite cheeseburgers and arrive with only one apple to share.

 

[Foxosaur]

Hey

It does help to contextualise what is going on within the framework of what we’re dealing with in terms of the communications output we’re receiving. I don’t think pointing out the fact that they’re an SME is excusing them insofar as it helps us understand what’s going on, especially given OPs comment.

This week’s WotW, for example, was met with extreme disappointment judging by the comments. Why did they publish that? A larger company would have a dedicated marketing team to concentrate on public relations, engage with the community, etc. Where I work, Marketing consists of four departments totaling close to 100 people, each responsible for specific areas of marketing. CO has 30 people in total, and I guarantee most are from an IT background, not dedicated marketing professionals. Their communications is going to read like IT professionals writing down their ideas, go through a basic stage of refinement, and then published. Like a small business.

I don’t think that excuses them as much as it puts it in context with what we’re seeing. The disappointment in today’s WotW comes from this space: as far as Mariina is aware, her team is pumping out code as fast as they can, but she has to say something in the WotW that everyone wants to see on a weekly basis. They aren’t ready to show or announce anything. How does a large marketing team perform in this situation? How does a small team consisting of mostly IT professionals perform? How does a single person team perform? All very differently.

Likely, most people took what they said last week at face value and are bitterly disappointed that we didn’t see the goods. I’m not, i figured something like this would happen. Instead of saying “next week we’ll show you some goodies” they should have said “here are some of the features we’re working on, and here are some issues we’re facing, we’ll be happy to share more when we’ve solved some more problems”. Promising anything without the goods at the moment is not going to work well for anyone.

Otherwise I understand where you’re coming from. I’d be furious if I paid money for a game and it didn’t work.

Edit: I thought I’d also point out that personally I think this week’s WotW was a let down, precisely for the reason above. It’s dangerous to promise everyone’s favourite cheeseburgers and arrive with only one apple to share.

I mostly agree with your sentiment but you know, I'm a IT professional and worked for many years in lots of small businesses, the most common thing about them was their ability to communicate with other small businesses and the general public, none of us were into marketing, just average every day people with character flaws. I think CO_Martsu's posts have been diminished by things she isn't saying and I think they must be related to Paradox. So either CO was pushed to press the release button against CO internal wishes and can't say as much or Paradox have failed in some part of their publishing relationship / role. Neither willing to say anything to the public of course. Or it's just misplaced communication by CO_Martsu. Either way you're seeing someone not doing to good a job at trying to "placate" things and I think maybe has given up trying to, almost to change a narrative, that is still unfolding.

And I think the whole "your expectations" comment by them will repeat itself many times from now as inflammatory and showing disrespect whilst refusing to acknowledge much at all. So I think they are reaping what they are sowing and they are casting a perspective from a high up ivory tower and are a bit removed from things.

Here's hoping a more down to earth and upfront post will come forward.

 

[brother_korahael]

All really good points, and I agree. It could be any number of reasons that have caused this fundamental miscommunication (including Finnish to English mistranslation of intentions), and I want to highlight this because it deserves repeating:

And I think the whole "your expectations" comment by them will repeat itself many times from now as inflammatory and showing disrespect whilst refusing to acknowledge much at all. So I think they are reaping what they are sowing and they are casting a perspective from a high up ivory tower and are a bit removed from things.

It really does come across like that, even if it isn't their intention.

I think I should also highlight that I don't mean "IT professionals" in a negative light, more in a "we're expecting PDX marketing at a billion-dollar budget quality, but we're getting (likely burning out) developers racing to release new content according to some timeline while also trying to communicate with an increasingly bitter audience", more like fish-out-of-water. IT is easily my favourite department to work with, followed closely by marketing. On the other hand, I thoroughly dislike working with HR, they are maliciously useless (but I digress).

 

[Foxosaur]

All really good points, and I agree. It could be any number of reasons that have caused this fundamental miscommunication (including Finnish to English mistranslation of intentions), and I want to highlight this because it deserves repeating:

It really does come across like that, even if it isn't their intention.

I think I should also highlight that I don't mean "IT professionals" in a negative light, more in a "we're expecting PDX marketing at a billion-dollar budget quality, but we're getting (likely burning out) developers racing to release new content according to some timeline while also trying to communicate with an increasingly bitter audience", more like fish-out-of-water. IT is easily my favourite department to work with, followed closely by marketing. On the other hand, I thoroughly dislike working with HR, they are maliciously useless (but I digress).

Completely agree with you there entirely. Sorry if I came across as defensive, I just had a moment to labour my own point of being a wearer-of-all-rounded-hatness which is that a lot of small business employees have to do too, including dealing with people and relationships. But you are right, it could be a lost in translation thing, so the impact of posts are missing the mark and they are still wondering why. Maybe.

PS, I worked a lot with accountants in my career too, very easy to get on with. So the feelings mutual my friend. Can't comment on HR too much, I did find marketing teams a bit more wild and hungry to deal with at times though lol. I'll stop digressing too!

 

[Daedalos_MS]

I have electro-engineering background and I ended in world of payroll accountants as consultant and developer. I have anxieties to talk to other people and express my opinions in a way others can comprehend. Plus English is second language to me and I also have disgraphia. Combine everything together and you have to realise it is miracle, when people understands me. So I never expect to receive "perfect and clear messages", what I am expecting is that other party is trying and explain their intentions when I do not understand them, and is honest with me from the start. And from what CO is saying, I do not have a feeling they are trying to be honest with us....

I am not expert on gaming industry, but look at the way how CS2 was marketed, do you have feeling it was done by small studio, or by someone who has issues to express themselves? AFAIK, the developer is creating a product and publisher is selling it. by that logic, the communication with customers should be done by publisher, not developer. I wonder why marketing for CS2 was done so great, like it was done by a big company, where follow up communication is done on different level. I have my explanations, what is yours?

 

[lukassooo]

I have electro-engineering background and I ended in world of payroll accountants as consultant and developer. I have anxieties to talk to other people and express my opinions in a way others can comprehend. Plus English is second language to me and I also have disgraphia. Combine everything together and you have to realise it is miracle, when people understands me. So I never expect to receive "perfect and clear messages", what I am expecting is that other party is trying and explain their intentions when I do not understand them, and is honest with me from the start. And from what CO is saying, I do not have a feeling they are trying to be honest with us....

And you have nailed it perfectly that is whole point of why people are mad....I'm still impressed that lot of people's race around here inventing new reasons why state of the game is how it is....when the answer is so bluntly simple

 

[MohawkWolfo98]

Sometimes unexpected things pop up and cause last-minute changes to plans. I know it might not make for as interesting a narrative, but that's what happened this time around. When last week's WoW went out, we had planned to share the update from the art team this week, but we've had to push it until next week. I apologize for the last-minute change in the schedule and that we didn't communicate the changes clearly.

The WoW as you've come to know is taking a little break, but Mariina will be back. In the meantime, we have a little something else planned, but more on that next week.

What happened to this avanya, and why was it not communicated to us before? Where is the art team?

Where I live, a small business is classed as any business with 50 or fewer employees (source: the Australian Securities and Investments Commission). I don't know how this is classified in Finland, so I run off definitions I'm familiar. CO is operating as a small business (with a CEO as well; is this title an honorific or is there an actual board to answer to?) and their comms has that "we're a small business" vibe. It's not chaotic; you're expecting Triple-A multinational level marketing campaigns, where CO is a small business. Mismatch of expectations, not chaos.

The game should not have been marketed like a AAA game then, or sold as one by the marketing team. The price point, developer statements before release all suggested that CO we’re releasing a massive game that was in every way better than its predecessor apart from assets perhaps. As a result, expectations were set accordingly.

Frankly tho, u made a much more convincing argument than CO has with re to it being a small business: I’m more persuaded by ur arguments than “ur expectations are too high, and if u dislike the simulation it’s not for u then” vibes CO did.

 

[-Erin-]

Sometimes unexpected things pop up and cause last-minute changes to plans. I know it might not make for as interesting a narrative, but that's what happened this time around. When last week's WoW went out, we had planned to share the update from the art team this week, but we've had to push it until next week. I apologize for the last-minute change in the schedule and that we didn't communicate the changes clearly.

The WoW as you've come to know is taking a little break, but Mariina will be back. In the meantime, we have a little something else planned, but more on that next week.

Wasn't next week this monday? What happened? What 'little something else' that you were meaning to say this week is planned? Haven't hard anything about thay yet either...

 

[TripleAgent]

Honestly I'm disappointed by the WOTW but that's par for the course right now, I'm more disappointed that despite CO constantly acknowledging that communication needs to improve, we get virtually radio silence with the only responses being "We're working on it but can't tell you what we're working on because our publisher won't let us" and announcements about announcements that aren't even followed through on. This really isn't helping the situation.

 

[-Erin-]

Honestly I'm disappointed by the WOTW but that's par for the course right now, I'm more disappointed that despite CO constantly acknowledging that communication needs to improve, we get virtually radio silence with the only responses being "We're working on it but can't tell you what we're working on because our publisher won't let us" and announcements about announcements that aren't even followed through on. This really isn't helping the situation.

Yeah, it's very dissappointing, basically the only communication we get is the WOTW... once a week, which says nothing, it's just empty promises and please wait, basically no substantial information whatsoever

 

[Derigin]

I remember in the lead up to and following the release of the first Cities Skylines that the developer communication with players was much more direct, frequent, and honestly more enthusiastic and genuine than it has been for the sequel. I don't know what changed, but it really is different.

Cities Skylines II was the first game I've pre-ordered in ages, and at least since physical midnight releases of games stopped being a thing. At the time I was thinking two things, both which turned out to be wrong ultimately: that the game would be a great game, and that given their track record with the first Cities Skylines, that the developers earned it for the way they previously approached the fanbase.

I feel awful knowing that I probably should have seen the writing on the wall ahead of time - how flaws in the game were already being pointed out pre-release and justified as "it's a beta" - and how now many months later we only get long silences punctuated by bursts of bad PR and lackluster responses from the developers. Yeah, it's beyond disappointing at this point. I'm not angry or frustrated, just... exhausted? I'm craving a really good new citybuilder in the same vein as SimCity and Cities Skylines but there is none, and I don't feel that Colossal Order is going to be able to dig themselves out of this hole to be the leader in the genre anymore.

 

[yalex]

Someone at CO needs to take responsibility for its current state, the reality is that they:

• Would have known development was falling behind schedule and failed to resolve this
• Approved promotional content containing advertising that they knew would not be included in the launched product
• Knowingly released a product that did not live up the claims they created
• Continue to provide unsatisfactory communications
• Are nearing six months since release with the product still unfinished

If most people performed their job like the above I would suggest they would find themselves needing new employment.