Well since the next Paradox game Diplomacy will only have 7 playable nations there is lots of time for you grafics wizards 
Just kidding
Just kidding
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Every single coat of arms that isn't Christian is either anachronistic for the time period or entirely incorrect. Sadly I lack the time to throw myself into a new project, as I already am neglecting projects I already have.
Mad King James said:
I agree with you MKJ, let's focus on christian CoA.
BTW the "shield shapes poll" is opened so please vote
!http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202212
Birger said:Well, I don't think we need to standardize anything... Look at the GUFSM/EGUFSM, no standardization whatsoever and it turned out pretty ok.
Well if I had been present I'd certainly call for standardization. Not that I don't like it but I just think it's strange to have CoA's with totally different lion or eagle models.
They didn't, but this is a game rememeber. It would look far better if the all models were standardized then as it is now when they look like a bunch of totally different CoA's lumped together.
And btw. Amagaeru is actually right. As far as I rememeber the Holstein uses both for duchy and county the Slesvig-Holstein modern CoA when Slesvig and Holstein are separated in CK. So Holstein should use only the Holstein part and Slesvig the Slesvig part. That is what he was talking about. However I think thats one of those rare problems so it can be corrected easily.
Otherwise, we also have to talk about colour quality. Should we keep the current 8-bit bitmap or change for 24-bit bitmap (maybe there's some perfomance problem on the oldest PCs ?)
Finellach said:
Well try to find really good source images that look the same.
I sure haven't found any set of heraldic clipart that includes St. George and the dragon and Swedish lioneagles, just to pick some examples.
Finellach said:They didn't, but this is a game rememeber. It would look far better if the all models were standardized then as it is now when they look like a bunch of totally different CoA's lumped together.
I can agree to use a specific lion rampant, eagle sable etc, but not to use all ones from a complete set of clipart...
I know it's a game, but that's no excuse to get less artistic...
Finellach said:And btw. Amagaeru is actually right. As far as I rememeber the Holstein uses both for duchy and county the Slesvig-Holstein modern CoA when Slesvig and Holstein are separated in CK. So Holstein should use only the Holstein part and Slesvig the Slesvig part. That is what he was talking about. However I think thats one of those rare problems so it can be corrected easily.
Yeah, if we're talking about Schleswig he's right...
Btw, I can think of three arms that will look pretty much the same when scaled down (I we would standardize the design that is).
Meissen - http://www.ngw.nl/int/dld/kreis/meissenr.htm
Flander - http://www.ngw.nl/int/bel/prov/oostvlaa.htm
Léon (France) - http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fr-bz-l.html
now let's start our project ! I think it's a good thing to begin our work with the kingdoms. Let's begin with Portugal, I've found 2 CoA in the well known site : http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/
the oldest one:
the most used during CK period:
any other proposal ?
the oldest one:
the most used during CK period:
any other proposal ?
Birger said:
Thats why you find the model you like the best and you edit it accordingly to each county.
I can agree to use a specific lion rampant, eagle sable etc, but not to use all ones from a complete set of clipart...
I know it's a game, but that's no excuse to get less artistic...
Actually thats certinaly not less artistic but actually just the opposite. Not to mention it looks sloopy. If I had the abbility I would standardize it myself ages ago.
This can be simply overcome by making Messien with the lion holding castle or the weath thingy. Flanders is a black lion with red claws and tongue and Leon totally black lion. As you see no problem in differentiating them.
Finellach said:
Don't you want historical accurancy?
The shield with the castle dates back to early 16th century...
I think some standardisation of tinctures would be fine. Not needed for charges though, IMO...Gratianus said:
Birger said:Don't you want historical accurancy?
I want the CoA's to look good. I don't want two dozen of different lion models out there, it just looks ugly.
And btw. the shield with the castle was used since 12th century by the counts of Meissen. The oldest preserved seal dates back from 16th century not the CoA itself.
By historical accurancy I meant that we use the shield without the "castle" since that is actually the arms of the city of Meissen...
The counts of Meissen only used a black lion rampant on a yellow background.
And no, it doesn't dates back to the 12th century, that's when the city was granted it's city rights. The oldest seals of the city only showed the helmet and crest of the Counts of Meissen
http://www.ngw.nl/int/dld/m/meissen.htm
Coinage from Meissen
http://someoldcoins.org/saur/d/d197a.htm
The counts of Meissen only used a black lion rampant on a yellow background.
And no, it doesn't dates back to the 12th century, that's when the city was granted it's city rights. The oldest seals of the city only showed the helmet and crest of the Counts of Meissen
http://www.ngw.nl/int/dld/m/meissen.htm
Coinage from Meissen
http://someoldcoins.org/saur/d/d197a.htm
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Gratianus said:
I agree with you. Instead of talking about Meissen, Léon, and Flanders we should begin to work. I've already post some proposals for Portugal, but I've been totally ignored
. I think we should organize ourself, otherwise this project will never start
Why would Meissen be as important to get right as Portugal?
Does anyone know if there's a "shield change" event in CK as in EUII?
I think that the latter arms is a better pick.
Used from about 1154 - 1210 (1248)
Used from about 1210 - pretty much until 1932
Does anyone know if there's a "shield change" event in CK as in EUII?
I think that the latter arms is a better pick.
Used from about 1154 - 1210 (1248)
Used from about 1210 - pretty much until 1932
I'm now making a check list of CoA's. And I'll post the conclusive CoA's at once like ABKH, AEGE, AKAB, ALEP, ALEX...etc.Hasimir Fenring said:I agree with you. Instead of talking about Meissen, Léon, and Flanders we should begin to work. I've already post some proposals for Portugal, but I've been totally ignored
EDIT: I think we should start from conclusive CoA's.
BTW, This is my recent work of lion models. Looking at this drafts, peaple who are suspicius of standardizing of colours and models shall recognize the merit of the standarization.
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Birger said:By historical accurancy I meant that we use the shield without the "castle" since that is actually the arms of the city of Meissen...
The counts of Meissen only used a black lion rampant on a yellow background.
Yes and we don't wheter the lion had yellow tongue and nails and other small details. Also calling upon historical accuracy is something totally futile. How will you conclude what is historically accurate for Asia Minor? North Africa? Russia?
Btw. I prefer this one for Portugal.
Edit: Yes just look what Gratinaus did. It looks fantastic and the lion models are the best looking lion models there are on the whole net. I really don't see absolutly no reason why we wouldn't standardize the models like this. Also the Meissen issue can be overcome by simple small details like I mentioned...such as tongue and nails colour which can be of any colour basically since we don't have such info on Meissen lion.
Finellach said:
Usually that's described in most early heraldic rolls.
I know that, I should have used the words more historical accurate since you can't get it 100% correct.
Have I ever said that I will? Jeeez...
finellach said:Btw. I prefer this one for Portugal.
Yes, that one is an nice option as well, not used as much tho.
finellach said:
Yes it looks nice eventhough I'm not a fan of the style of those lions, to me they feel not in touch with the times, but it's just me that's picky I guess.
I have no problem with shields looking the same since there's shields that do that in European rolls. I don't see any issue with Meissen since their arms were since all the sources I've found says that it's:
Or a lion rampant sable claw and tongue gules
But like you said, a minor detail...
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Birger said:
You were talking about historical accuracy....I was just pointing out that nothing is completly historically accurate. All CoA's we have today are vague and aproximate examples. How will you draw eagle, lion or any other model in the CoA depends really on the artist who is drawing it.
Still looks the best and was used in the CK period.
Yes it looks nice eventhough I'm not a fan of the style of those lions, to me they feel not in touch with the times, but it's just me that's picky I guess.
Yes thats just you. I on the other hand think these lions are the best looking models, including the eagle models as well made by the same man.
The thing is they do not look the same....they are only standardized. Why do I always feel like pulling teeth when I debating with you...
Hasimir Fenring said:
If you haven't noticed the other use the same castle model as well, only on this one they are more clearer. Furthermore it's not "Castile castle" but a standardized castle model.
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